[SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

Altoid · 2025-05-21 13:06:33

Hello:

This morning I came upon over 145 keyring-* sub-folders in my /home/user/.cache folder.
The contents of these folders fall into two categories: control and pkcs11.

What calls my attention is that they are quite dated:

2018 (1)
2019 (91)
2020 (12)
2021 (2)
2022 (1)
2023 (1)
2024 (29)
2025 (10)
As you can see, only 10 are from 2025.

I ssh into a NAS and the VM where my Pi-Hole / unbound set up runs and sometimes into my fibre router to check what evil the telco is up to.

Q1:
Why are they cached?
Q2:
Can these folders be directly deleted?
If not, how are they be cleared?

These are the backends I have in my system:

$ keyring --list-backends
keyring.backends.SecretService.Keyring (priority: 5)
keyring.backends.chainer.ChainerBackend (priority: 10)
keyrings.alt.file.PlaintextKeyring (priority: 0.5)
keyring.backends.fail.Keyring (priority: 0)
keyrings.alt.file.EncryptedKeyring (priority: 0.6)
$

Please advise.
Best,

A.

Last edited by Altoid (2025-05-21 13:06:55)

greenjeans · 2025-05-21 14:18:29

I've never seen anything in ~/.cache that couldn't be deleted. There's zero keyring files in mine, but I clear my cache regularly with Bleachbit which basically wipes everything out in there.

I actually uninstalled the gnome-keyring in my stuff, it's badly broken, really doesn't do squat except occasionally cause errors when opening a browser.

Altoid · 2025-05-21 14:56:57

Hello:

greenjeans wrote:

... never seen anything in ~/.cache that couldn't be deleted.

That's what I think, but the fact that they are cached makes me doubt.
ie: why are they not cleared on reboot?

greenjeans wrote:

... zero keyring files in mine ...
... Bleachbit ...
... basically wipes everything out ...

Good to know.

greenjeans wrote:

... uninstalled the gnome-keyring ...
... badly broken ...

Why am I not surprised?

This is what I have installed in terms of 'keyrings':

$ apt list | grep installed | grep keyring
debian-archive-keyring/stable,stable,now 2023.3+deb12u2 all [installed]
devuan-keyring/stable,stable,now 2023.05.28 all [installed]
gnome-keyring/stable,now 42.1-1+b2 amd64 [installed]
python3-keyring/stable,stable,now 23.9.3-2 all [installed,automatic]
python3-keyrings.alt/stable,stable,now 4.2.0-1 all [installed,automatic]
$

Q: just how many keyrings do I need for my desktop?

Best,

A.

stopAI · 2025-05-21 15:45:52

Hello. I don't have

keyring-*

sub-folders in my .cache folder

Altoid · 2025-05-21 19:48:01

Hello:

stopAI wrote:

I don't have ...

I deleted them all, no noticeable ill effects.

It would seem that they are a remnant / consquence of bad shutdowns, remaining cached because the system was unable to flush them.
See here.

But then, the next post has a bit that relates directly to gnome-keyring being the culprit:

gnome-keyring will create the control socket in ~/.cache/keyring-* when it cannot access the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR location. This happens every time on slackware, due to the pam stack configuration in the /etc/pam.d/system-auth file. Specifically the last line where "pam_gnome_keyring.so auto_start" is run (this step creates the control socket).
The problem is that here in system-auth, the gnome-keyring auto_start line is *always* called before pam_elogind.so, so it will never have the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR available and will always create a socket in ~/.cache instaed. This can then lead to stale files and whatnot as you see.

greenjeans says it is broken and this is probably (?) part of the damage.

I concurr with another poster's opinion in that thread ...

I'm allergic to residual and redundant cache and tmp files (IMHO they should be overwritten when new files are created or deleted after shutting down the program in question).

... but the solution posted does not apply to Devuan.
ie: there is no /etc/pam.d/system-auth file in my system

So maybe the solution is getting rid of gnome-keyring.

Q: how do I know if it actually being used?

Best,

A.

greenjeans · 2025-05-21 21:34:28

So maybe the solution is getting rid of gnome-keyring.
Q: how do I know if it actually being used?

It doesn't do squat, I ran for months on a system where the password for gnome-keyring (which SHOULD be the users password) was in fact not the correct users password, but an artifact left over because I didn't delete the keyring files before/after running a snapshot. I still don't know what password it was using.

But during all that time, no issues with the system whatsoever. It was in fact, not doing a damn thing except for generating a "User's keyring did not get unlocked on login" message whenever I opened the browser. And that warning didn't mean anything because all you have to do is hit cancel and ignore it, then browse normally. Or add an extra command to the browser exec command to stop the warnings (which is what most people do).

It was supposed to be securely storing the users passwords that you save when browsing, but even if configged with the right password it did not in fact do that either, they were being stored still by the browser in it's section in config.

I un-installed it, and no issues in several months since I did so. Only issue I had was I tried uninstalling the pkcs package too, but my music player Exaile (a gnome app of course) refused to connect to internet radio until I re-installed it.

Yeah, brilliant that, everybody should have to have permission from gnome before they are allowed to listen to the f*****g radio. derp.

But on the bright side, i've spent the last 3 days creating an app that will allow me to dump even more buggy gnome crap from my machine, so i'm pretty stoked about that.

Altoid · 2025-05-21 22:31:29

Hello:

greenjeans wrote:

... doesn't do squat ...

So I have discovered, thanks for the heads-up.

I had a start-up entry in xfce+Session and Startup+Application Autostart and unchecked it.
Ran through all my routines and they worked perfectly well, so I just uninstalled it.
Worst case, I'd have to re-install it.

greenjeans wrote:

... supposed to be securely storing the users passwords that you save when browsing ...

I would not be caught dead doing that. 8^°

greenjeans wrote:

... uninstalling the pkcs package ...

That I don't have.

The only gnome thing I have is the gnome-disk-utility which has given me no problems.
I have found it quite useful but it comes with a (built-in?) gnome-disk-utility notification plugin which I never set to startup.
You will find it in /usr/libxec/gsd-disk-utilty-notify.

That's that, so I'll mark this one solved.

Best,

A.

greenjeans · 2025-05-21 23:47:11

^^^ yeah I have the gnome-disk-utility too, handy program but just really a one-trick pony for me, and doesn't even do that right. That's what i've spent the last couple days on, writing a script so I can get rid of it.

I typically use it after using Mintstick to create a liveUSB, only thing bad about it is that it creates one single ISO-9660 partition that takes up the entire stick regardless of size. The disk utility however can be used to create a secondary partition in whatever flavor you choose, I use FAT32 and just make it a data partition to store files I want to carry along with the liveUSB.

But it still doesn't do that right, it leaves ISO-9660 signatures on the new partition, therefore if you try to view the stick in Gparted it won't show your new partition, it still thinks it's one gigantic ISO-9660 partition. It still works, no issues there, but it's been bugging me, so I fixed it. So now I have a nice quick script to run after using Mintstick that takes the empty space and creates the partition I want.

I could actually tell the gnomers how to fix their app now, but I doubt they'd even admit there's a flaw, probably blame it on Gparted. Not that Gparted doesn't need a little work too, it does.

But the worst thing about the disk utility, is it refuses to use SSD properly, and so looks just ridiculous with it's superfluous set of min-max-close buttons and such. Their gtk4 apps are even worse, they don't even use the basic colors from your theme, and don't allow a titlebar at all, it's really bizarre how bad their designs are when it comes to look-and-feel.

Dumping a lot of their crap from my projects this week.

golinux · 2025-05-21 23:55:48

There is hope! A little birdie told me that Xfce may be on the chopping block because of the UI and other changes . . .

greenjeans · 2025-05-22 02:48:13

There is ALWAYS hope. Nil desperandum.

stopAI · 2025-05-22 12:50:53

Very strange. I have gnome-keyring installed in my system. And don't have such problems....

Last edited by stopAI (2025-05-22 12:51:36)

trinidad · 2025-05-22 13:24:09

Xfce may be on the chopping block

Do you mean just for Devuan and/or Debian? 4.20 just came out and I've managed to get most of it working on Wayland in Ubuntu 24 on kernel 6.14. Missing functionality can for the most part be triaged in labwc with rc.xml configurations.

TC

greenjeans · 2025-05-22 14:19:54

I've managed to get most of it working

I hear that comment a lot when it comes to wayland, doesn't inspire much confidence.

I don't know what issues xfce might have, but if Devuan is considering using a different default desktop, my vote goes to MATE. The vanilla test iso's i've been making of excalibur with mate are very nice and seem to run really well. And it uses the theme elements properly. It's simple and stable, no CSD shenanigans with it's native apps, and they have been pretty fast to fix any bugs despite being over-worked, underpaid, and short-staffed (kinda like us here, lol).

Altoid · 2025-05-22 15:49:21

Hello:

As sometimes happens, we are veering away from the original topic. 8^°

greenjeans wrote:

... my vote goes to MATE.

The best (albeit not a DE) I ever came across was the one Philip Newborough set up in the original #! Waldorf.
Hands down: fast, light, nimble and absolute lack of useless bloat.

XFCE lost it, long ago.
Bloated, bugsy ...
I will not be taking it beyond the present version.

I recall seeing (at one time or another) a post (somewhere) making reference to a script than would put the #! OB WM on a basic Debian installation.
I vaguely remember that HoaS had something to do with it.
ie: the script or the reference, cannot recall.

Best,

A.

greenjeans · 2025-05-22 17:20:47

^^^I used waldorf myself for a couple years, lol ironically I wrote the tutorial on their site that explained how to install Mate successfully on #!. Crunchbang was where I first really started enjoying Openbox.

It would be a ballsy choice for Devuan, I could sure help with implementation, but it would add a lot of complexity to building the iso's and users would need to be somewhat proficient already in Linux to use it. I think Mate's really the best choice at this point, it would be a nice shot in the arm for Mate development too, I could see it being very symbiotic. Mate is usually very nice and stable, intuitive and predictable for even very new users, it's what I use every time I re-hab an old computer for a windows-refugee, and they all pick it up fast and wind up really enjoying the experience.

Altoid · 2025-05-22 18:18:40

Hello:

greenjeans wrote:

... ballsy choice for Devuan ...

I think it fits Devuan just right.
In the true Linux spirit.

greenjeans wrote:

... could sure help with implementation ...

That would be great.

greenjeans wrote:

... would add a lot of complexity to the *.iso ...

You know better than I, but I was not referring to an out of the box thing, ie: incorporated in the *.iso.

What I had read about (if I undestood it correctly) was a script you could download and run on an basic Debian installation.
ie: one without a DE/WM, after the installation was finished and everything else was running as expected.

Found the post by HoaS here.
Have a look and tell us what you think.
Maybe a different thread?

Edit:
https://archive.org/details/sharpbang-b … 386.hybrid
https://archiveos.org/sharpbang/

Best,

A.

Last edited by Altoid (2025-05-23 21:41:53)

greenjeans · 2025-05-22 18:53:27

Well a new thread would probably be better, but since we don't have the full context of golinux's somewhat cryptic message, it may be a little premature.

HOAS is a brilliant guy, he hangs out a fair bit on the Bunsenlabs forum and has helped me several times, he's also a cat guy like me, so obviously he's a good person.

Miyolinux had a short tutorial on doing a basic OB system on an installed cli-only system, it's really pretty easy, only about a dozen packages or so to get a working desktop. But it's all the configging needed after that to get anything other than a blank black screen when you log in that makes it a PITA. It would have to be a pretty large script.

golinux · 2025-05-22 19:17:04

greenjeans wrote:

Well a new thread would probably be better, but since we don't have the full context of golinux's somewhat cryptic message, it may be a little premature.

It was a mistake to have posted that nonsense . . . boredom can have weird consequences. I would move it to a new thread if it were worthy of attention. Another option is self-restraint to let that cryptic comment fade into oblivion. Final solution would be deletion.

Altoid · 2025-05-22 19:55:39

Hello:

golinux wrote:

... mistake to have posted that nonsense ...

Ain't necessarily so.

If XFCE is (like you seem to suggest) not going to the chopping block, all the more reason to find a sleek alternative for Devuan.
This because whatever sleekness XFCE may have once had is long (long) gone.

The alternative need not be incorpporated into the *.iso.
Ideally, some sort of #! Openbox meta-package to download and apply to a basic Devuan installation.

So I'd say that your cryptic comment can stay.
It has served a purpose while at the same time serendipity has proven its existence.

Once again.

Best,

A.

greenjeans · 2025-05-22 22:26:40

It was a mistake to have posted that nonsense

Pshaw, it provoked some interesting dialog, and with Altoid who's one of my favorite people to dialog with, so win/win.

I could dig making an Openbox setup as a meta-package that could be chosen as the DE during the install software section of the installer, alongside XFCE, Mate, KDE etc. That might be a fun project. Probably be easier to just build a basic live iso and offer it like that with the Refracta installer. Really needs a dynamic menu to be useable and obmenu-generator is still not in the repo.

golinux · 2025-05-23 00:08:10

@greenjeans . . . Let's see where things go in the coming years. Currently things seem to be working through Excalibur and I will be on Chimaera until it is EOL. My personal trajectory . . . by the time I work my way through Daedalus and Excalibur I will be getting very close to 90! Strangely, I find comfort in that thought . . .

Also remember that Devuan has always been Debian without systemd. So a radical change to other applications like the DE would require a major shift in standing policy and that would require extensive discussion and feedback.

fsmithred · 2025-05-23 00:28:38

Openbox now includes an applications menu that uses the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications. I added a few items to the main menu, but everything expanded from "Applications" was automatically added.
https://get.refracta.org/files/misc/ope … s-menu.png

ceeslans · 2025-05-23 12:16:44

What I had read about (if I undestood it correctly) was a script you could download and run on an basic Debian installation.
ie: one without a DE/WM, after the installation was finished and everything else was running as expected.

Like a netinstall script, right? Bunsenlabs offers a netinstall script : https://github.com/BunsenLabs/bunsen-netinstall

Last edited by ceeslans (2025-05-23 12:38:39)

greenjeans · 2025-05-23 14:04:02

Openbox now includes an applications menu that uses the .desktop files in /usr/share/applications. I added a few items to the main menu, but everything expanded from "Applications" was automatically added.
https://get.refracta.org/files/misc/ope … s-menu.png

That's cool, did not know that! If it were me i'd still use obmenu-generator, you can make a really pretty menu with it.

So a vanilla Devuan Openbox version, I guess Openbox can use the current desktop-base for artwork? That may be a dumb question, but I haven't tried it myself, I run my own artwork in my projects.

And what file manager? PcmanFM s the classic choice, it's still available, and despite multiple attempts to drop development, it lingers on, lol, new version in excalibur is now gtk3. But it has that one big bug about how it handles thumbnailing and caching, doesn't seem like anybody is going to fix it anytime soon. I do have a nice script that bandaids it to work a LOT better.

fsmithred · 2025-05-23 14:29:55

I think the background color in openbox is built into the binary. I couldn't find a way to change it. Two ways I know to have a bg image in openbox are with spacefm or feh. I seem to recall some gaseous element name for bg images with a window manager - I think it's nitrogen but it might be oxygen.

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2025-05-21 13:06:33

[SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#2 2025-05-21 14:18:29

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#3 2025-05-21 14:56:57

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#4 2025-05-21 15:45:52

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#5 2025-05-21 19:48:01

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#6 2025-05-21 21:34:28

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#7 2025-05-21 22:31:29

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#8 2025-05-21 23:47:11

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#9 2025-05-21 23:55:48

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#10 2025-05-22 02:48:13

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#11 2025-05-22 12:50:53

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#12 2025-05-22 13:24:09

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#13 2025-05-22 14:19:54

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#14 2025-05-22 15:49:21

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#15 2025-05-22 17:20:47

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#16 2025-05-22 18:18:40

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#17 2025-05-22 18:53:27

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#18 2025-05-22 19:17:04

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#19 2025-05-22 19:55:39

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#20 2025-05-22 22:26:40

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#21 2025-05-23 00:08:10

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#22 2025-05-23 00:28:38

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#23 2025-05-23 12:16:44

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#24 2025-05-23 14:04:02

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

#25 2025-05-23 14:29:55

Re: [SOLVED] Stale keyring files?

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