What will happen to Windows?

golinux · 2021-06-09 02:17:56

OK . . .

FTR . . . I don't have a grudge against Windows users. Neither do I want to rescue them from their own stupidity. That is a fool's endeavor.

golinux · 2021-06-09 02:21:37

andyprough wrote:

That's too bad.

Yes and no. It just is what it is. If that's not OK, you're in trouble . . .

blackhole · 2021-06-13 12:17:24

"If my fears come true, there will be a storm of indignation around the world, very soon! And that will affect Microsoft too. I don't know how many users Windos has, but if only 25% switch to Linux, then you should be well prepared for it."

I'm afraid your predictions might be just a bit off oh great prophet.

Whatever is exposed about certain individuals, no matter how big, the world will still turn and MS will still dominate their x86 PC market. Business is business.

Last edited by blackhole (2021-06-13 12:17:57)

zapper · 2021-06-13 12:40:02

blackhole wrote:

"If my fears come true, there will be a storm of indignation around the world, very soon! And that will affect Microsoft too. I don't know how many users Windos has, but if only 25% switch to Linux, then you should be well prepared for it."
I'm afraid your predictions might be just a bit off oh great prophet.
Whatever is exposed about certain individuals, no matter how big, the world will still turn and MS will still dominate their x86 PC market. Business is business.

x86 is also a huge and stupid problem.

On a semi related note, corporations are dangerous without actual checks and balances.

starbreaker · 2021-06-13 16:55:21

zapper wrote:

On a semi related note, corporations are dangerous without actual checks and balances.

The whole legal framework around US corporations is a mess, IMO.

Corporations should have a clearly defined purpose.
Once a corporation has carried out its purpose, it should disband.
Corporations should not be allowed to exist for more than 20 years.
Businesses incorporated within a state should only be permitted to operate within that state.
Businesses that operate across state or international borders should be required to incorporate at the Federal level.
Corporations should not be treated as legal persons, but as privately owned/operated government agencies.
Corporations should not have rights, but limited powers defined by law.
Corporations that overstep their boundaries should be summarily dissolved, and their assets confiscated to compensate non-executive workers for unexpected job loss.
Responsibility for corporate malfeasance should fall on the majority shareholders, board of directors, CEO, and senior management—and carry both civil and criminal liability.
Corporations should under no circumstance be protected by the First Amendment, let alone permitted to engage in advertising (aka private-sector psyops).
Intellectual property from defunct corporations should immediately enter the public domain.
Everybody involved in a corporation's operations should have a say in how the corporation is run.
Employees should not be fired without due process to prove cause.

Last edited by starbreaker (2021-06-13 16:58:11)

zapper · 2021-06-14 10:08:59

starbreaker wrote:

zapper wrote:
On a semi related note, corporations are dangerous without actual checks and balances.
The whole legal framework around US corporations is a mess, IMO.
Corporations should have a clearly defined purpose.
Once a corporation has carried out its purpose, it should disband.
Corporations should not be allowed to exist for more than 20 years.
Businesses incorporated within a state should only be permitted to operate within that state.
Businesses that operate across state or international borders should be required to incorporate at the Federal level.
Corporations should not be treated as legal persons, but as privately owned/operated government agencies.
Corporations should not have rights, but limited powers defined by law.
Corporations that overstep their boundaries should be summarily dissolved, and their assets confiscated to compensate non-executive workers for unexpected job loss.
Responsibility for corporate malfeasance should fall on the majority shareholders, board of directors, CEO, and senior management—and carry both civil and criminal liability.
Corporations should under no circumstance be protected by the First Amendment, let alone permitted to engage in advertising (aka private-sector psyops).
Intellectual property from defunct corporations should immediately enter the public domain.
Everybody involved in a corporation's operations should have a say in how the corporation is run.
Employees should not be fired without due process to prove cause.

I agree with you completely. 100%

blackhole · 2021-06-14 21:56:30

zapper wrote:

x86 is also a huge and stupid problem.
On a semi related note, corporations are dangerous without actual checks and balances.

There is a reason x86 was often dubbed "wintel".

MS hijacked that market from IBM who admittedly probably got what they deserved and again with OS/2. Their were casualties along the way along with, most notably, CP/M, and others of course. Everything that has occurred since has been at the behest of Microsoft, including UEFI and Secureboot, often to the rapturous applause of some Linux fans (quoting some developer on the payroll of AMD, Intel, Microsoft or whoever as they gush about meaningless quasi security). If things had worked out differently you might have had two Apples instead of one and no "open" x86 hardware. It's hard to say, but old MS may have been a "necessary evil", whereas new MS are just evil. EEE didn't just stop, it was simply adapted to the times.

The reality is that MS' secret deals with its OEMs continues, alternative OS are still frozen out of new PC sales and closed source firmware is the norm. The Intel Management Engine may not be the worst thing they will devise...

Last edited by blackhole (2021-06-14 21:58:09)

zapper · 2021-06-15 04:05:30

blackhole wrote:

zapper wrote:
x86 is also a huge and stupid problem.
On a semi related note, corporations are dangerous without actual checks and balances.
There is a reason x86 was often dubbed "wintel".
MS hijacked that market from IBM who admittedly probably got what they deserved and again with OS/2. Their were casualties along the way along with, most notably, CP/M, and others of course. Everything that has occurred since has been at the behest of Microsoft, including UEFI and Secureboot, often to the rapturous applause of some Linux fans (quoting some developer on the payroll of AMD, Intel, Microsoft or whoever as they gush about meaningless quasi security). If things had worked out differently you might have had two Apples instead of one and no "open" x86 hardware. It's hard to say, but old MS may have been a "necessary evil", whereas new MS are just evil. EEE didn't just stop, it was simply adapted to the times.
The reality is that MS' secret deals with its OEMs continues, alternative OS are still frozen out of new PC sales and closed source firmware is the norm. The Intel Management Engine may not be the worst thing they will devise...

That does sound like the reality we live in... smh...

Camtaf · 2021-06-15 09:11:51

Linux on Raspberry Pi is the way forwards - for me at least.....especially as I can now have Devuan on them.

blackhole · 2021-06-15 16:46:24

That's trading Intel or AMD, closed source firmware, etc - for Broadcom, more closed source firmwares and the company who famously stated that they had taken the decision to "trust Microsoft", when they included an MS repository in their OS.

Camtaf · 2021-06-16 09:08:23

The hardware is sound, no buggy CPU - just about every computer will use some proprietary equipment or software driver - so far, no hacked backend on ARM that I'm aware of.

Remember too, I'm running Devuan on mine - (no MS repository).

Last edited by Camtaf (2021-06-16 09:10:06)

JSM · 2021-06-16 14:29:40

@golinux

I received and read an email from you again. I will keep it to myself because it reflects your personal opinion. And I don't know if you want to publicly post this opinion here. I post my personal opinion publicly without fear, even if it is deleted every now and then and my topic is closed. That is not what I and others mean by freedom of expression! But maybe something in my post caused you to get scared?

I also read this open letter that you posted.

http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/ker … 02496.html

I don't know him and I don't know if it's you either. His arguments sound a little scared. As far as I can see, systemd is not "dangerous", just an idea of how to put things in order. Of course, I also wonder how the security of Linux distributions is doing. Sure, there are apparently still no viruses against Linux. It's good! But what about malware that is Linux internal? As a former IT engineer (with little programming experience) I think that there are enough opportunities to abuse Linux by the Linux programmers themselves!

And this is where ideology comes into play! People are scared of the power of Microsoft and we all know Bill Gates' background and also his current "projects". So people’s fear is well founded. It's different with Linux, because the Linux makers are scattered all over the world, mostly they are anonymous and often quite strongly ideologized (example antiX). It is interesting that nobody seems to be afraid of Linux. Why not? Because it's free? Does that make it less dangerous?

Ideologies seduce people and often ideologies even become fascist. Just because Linux has so many distributions doesn't mean it can't be misused. But of course, the possible abuse would then be better hidden and not so easy to find. Maybe this is one of the reasons why some are so strongly against systemd? I just guess.

As I wrote before, I'm not an IT engineer with a lot of programming experience. I'm not a systems specialist either. I am (or was) involved in project management. For many this discipline seems to be unnecessary, especially for those without discipline . Well, should they think that way and keep putting their projects on the wall, what's my business? Yes, it concerns me a lot, because I am basically a simple Linux user and then I reap the problems of failed or ideological open-source projects.

For about 3 months I have been looking for the "best" Linux distribution for me. No, I haven't found it yet and I run the risk of wanting a new distribution . As well-founded as Devuan, with tools as good as antiX, as easy to update as Fedora coreOS or Silverblue (container method), as small and light as TinyCore! And of course made by good IT engineers and supported by supporters who are socially, methodically and didactically experienced. A dream? We will see.

But the MOST IMPORTANT thing is that the distribution should be IDEOLOGY FREE! Because it is ideology that creates problems for us, not systemd.

At the moment I'm working on my own project, it's called LinuC. Perhaps this project will one day also lead to a LinuC OS, which is based on the above 4 distributions and takes over the positive from all of them? If God willing, yes!

Until then, I'll just work on my project every day and hope it will be a success. My "warnings" are formulated in general terms, but I plan to include detailed warnings in the individual distributions so that other users know what they are risking.

linuc.mipropia.com/

At the moment I am still working with antiX, even if I wish it was a goodX, an antiX without anti-ideology. And I also hope that Devuan will one day be free of ideology, because it is already systemd free. Come back to the normal world and forget about the ideological world, because ideologies are just fantasies of unstable people who have let themselves be caught! By whom? You know exactly

Have a nice weekend

blackhole · 2021-06-16 16:42:48

"Project management" eh?

Against ideology?

"Praised be Jesus Christ!" is the only content on your website.

I think you should stop now.

golinux · 2021-06-16 18:09:53

@ JSM . . .

Thank you for contributing a quasi-technical post.

How noble of you to keep private private but not so noble of you to use it as an opportunity to denigrate events experienced in space and time as "opinion". I doubt you would equate the apple falling on Newton's head as "opinion". But your manipulations don't fly here. Everyone can see them (if anyone is still reading this useless thread).

The motivations that drive actions are even more important than the actions themselves. That you would consider that I could pen "Open Letter to the Linux World" says more about you than me because I would never use such language, make those grammatical errors or participate in such a subterfuge to the Linux community.

Finally there is a difference between license and freedom. License implies permission to follow whatever whim enters the mind. This is what children do. True freedom is quite different. It is the ability to understand the motivations preceding an action and to choose to act in a way that is beneficial to oneself and others. It requires self-examination and self-control. Sadly, many adults never acquire that skill which is the main reason our species is so self-destructive. It will, in the end, be our undoing.

HND

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-06-16 18:43:24

Camtaf wrote:

so far, no hacked backend on ARM that I'm aware of

https://thehackernews.com/2016/05/andro … ploit.html

zapper · 2021-06-16 20:35:29

JSM wrote:

At the moment I'm working on my own project, it's called LinuC. Perhaps this project will one day also lead to a LinuC OS, which is based on the above 4 distributions and takes over the positive from all of them? If God willing, yes!
Until then, I'll just work on my project every day and hope it will be a success. My "warnings" are formulated in general terms, but I plan to include detailed warnings in the individual distributions so that other users know what they are risking.
linuc.mipropia.com/
At the moment I am still working with antiX, even if I wish it was a goodX, an antiX without anti-ideology. And I also hope that Devuan will one day be free of ideology, because it is already systemd free. Come back to the normal world and forget about the ideological world, because ideologies are just fantasies of unstable people who have let themselves be caught! By whom? You know exactly
Have a nice weekend

That sounds like a huge ordeal, you will probably give up, if you aren't prepared for the huge monumental task...

I honestly think if you truly want freedom, you should ditch this idea of forking the linux kernel in general. Find something a little less complicated, like OpenBSD...

There is a reason Hyperbola choose that for their future base. But its up to you man what you choose to use your time on.

That being said, some Christians are working on Hyperbola also.

They seem to think the libre ideology has some merit, even if it doesn't go far enough...

Which in my opinion it doesn't... same with many of them.

we very badly need a fifth freedom, one where no one is allowed to deliberately bloat a system to deliberately break backwards compatibility forcing adoption of their services.

This of course would be extremely hard, thus it hasn't happened.

Possibly even near impossible actually.

Last edited by zapper (2021-06-16 20:43:05)

zapper · 2021-06-16 20:38:06

blackhole wrote:

"Project management" eh?
Against ideology?
"Praised be Jesus Christ!" is the only content on your website.
I think you should stop now.

That isn't the main reason I agree with you, the main reason, is ideology is impossible to avoid. There's good types and bad types, thus it is impossible to avoid, just like people.

Thus, he is fooling himself... or he is playing us for fools and is only pretending he wants to do this. I can't really tell at this point.

Last edited by zapper (2021-06-16 20:42:26)

golinux · 2021-06-16 21:22:38

zapper wrote:

blackhole wrote:
Against ideology?
That isn't the main reason I agree with you, the main reason, is ideology is impossible to avoid. There's good types and bad types, thus it is impossible to avoid, just like people.
Thus, he is fooling himself... or he is playing us for fools and is only pretending he wants to do this. I can't really tell at this point.

A glass that is full and overflowing cannot hold wine or wisdom. Fear and desperation can manifest in infinite ways . . .

zapper · 2021-06-17 03:45:29

golinux wrote:

zapper wrote:
blackhole wrote:
Against ideology?
That isn't the main reason I agree with you, the main reason, is ideology is impossible to avoid. There's good types and bad types, thus it is impossible to avoid, just like people.
Thus, he is fooling himself... or he is playing us for fools and is only pretending he wants to do this. I can't really tell at this point.
A glass that is full and overflowing cannot hold wine or wisdom. Fear and desperation can manifest in infinite ways . . .

I suppose I am sometimes full of myself, my bad...

Though I still think ideology is impossible to avoid, good or bad?

golinux · 2021-06-17 04:04:35

zapper wrote:

golinux wrote:
zapper wrote:
That isn't the main reason I agree with you, the main reason, is ideology is impossible to avoid. There's good types and bad types, thus it is impossible to avoid, just like people.
Thus, he is fooling himself... or he is playing us for fools and is only pretending he wants to do this. I can't really tell at this point.
A glass that is full and overflowing cannot hold wine or wisdom. Fear and desperation can manifest in infinite ways . . .
I suppose I am sometimes full of myself, my bad...
Though I still think ideology is impossible to avoid, good or bad?

@ zapper . . .That was just a general observation about this thread and not directed at you.

zapper · 2021-06-17 05:16:56

golinux wrote:

zapper wrote:
golinux wrote:
A glass that is full and overflowing cannot hold wine or wisdom. Fear and desperation can manifest in infinite ways . . .
I suppose I am sometimes full of myself, my bad...
Though I still think ideology is impossible to avoid, good or bad?
@ zapper . . .That was just a general observation about this thread and not directed at you.

Ah okay, nevermind then.

Still, I don't want to be cocky if possible, it never goes well for me...

blackhole · 2021-06-17 07:13:32

I think there's a huge difference between design philosophies of any given software project - and people who's involvement or usage of, any given project is only as a means of a platform for pushing their ideology/beliefs/worldview/political agenda on others.

Camtaf · 2021-06-17 09:18:38

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Camtaf wrote:
so far, no hacked backend on ARM that I'm aware of
https://thehackernews.com/2016/05/andro … ploit.html

I think the relative bit is,

a Chinese ARM system-on-a-chip maker, which has recently been caught shipping a version of Linux Kernel with an incredibly simple and easy-to-use built-in backdoor.

That is a 'Chinese' built kernel, not the hardware - your choice of distro to run on a RPi is up to you, not dictated by a manufacturer.

JSM · 2021-06-17 16:03:13

@zapper and @blackhole

You both have interesting sub-texts, or whatever it is called

Thanks for the tip with Hyperbola! There are certainly many more future-oriented projects. jOS is not yet born and maybe it will be called LinuC OS, or C4C, or TC Container?

This morning I woke up thinking of using TinyCore as the base container. It's so small that it runs on just about any old computer. A first aditional container is built for it, which extends TC and ensures 100% hardware detection and provides update management. Then a second container, which turns TC into a distribution that comes with pre-installed applications and a tool to install/compail extensions from other distributions. Then a third container, which turns TC into a full-flower distribution. Depending on requirements, TC can be installed with one, two or three containers. In addition, one builds a "client container" for TC, which makes "TC and the first container" a jOSclient that connects to an application server and works there with a preinstalled Linux distribution. All in one, configurable with containers.

I will develop the idea further on LinuC in the section "LinuC internals", LinuC OS

And please don't worry about Devuan! Nobody wants to take it away from you or even remodel it! And I'm not a software developer either, as you can read on LinuC. But I'll try to motivate some good people. And if it turns out that there are already projects that are on the way (Hyperbola, Fedora coreOS), LinuC will simply be what it was in my first idea, a simple guide to installing old computers with Linux . No problem, it just takes time. And today I have little of it, because I have to wash clothes ... by hand

blackhole · 2021-06-17 16:48:41

JSM wrote:

And I'm not a software developer either, as you can read on LinuC. But I'll try to motivate some good people.

I see...

It seems you want others to construct your pet project Linux distribution thing for you? Are you going to motivate these "good" people with monetary remuneration for their efforts? Or do you expect them to work for free ?

As I first suspected - this is vapourware - in fact it hardly qualifies as that... as that term usually applies to those with the skills but who lack either the time or the will...

Last edited by blackhole (2021-06-17 16:50:47)

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#26 2021-06-09 02:17:56

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#27 2021-06-09 02:21:37

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#28 2021-06-13 12:17:24

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#29 2021-06-13 12:40:02

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#30 2021-06-13 16:55:21

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#31 2021-06-14 10:08:59

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#32 2021-06-14 21:56:30

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#33 2021-06-15 04:05:30

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#34 2021-06-15 09:11:51

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#35 2021-06-15 16:46:24

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#36 2021-06-16 09:08:23

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#37 2021-06-16 14:29:40

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#38 2021-06-16 16:42:48

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#39 2021-06-16 18:09:53

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#40 2021-06-16 18:43:24

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#41 2021-06-16 20:35:29

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#42 2021-06-16 20:38:06

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#43 2021-06-16 21:22:38

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#44 2021-06-17 03:45:29

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#45 2021-06-17 04:04:35

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#46 2021-06-17 05:16:56

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#47 2021-06-17 07:13:32

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#48 2021-06-17 09:18:38

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#49 2021-06-17 16:03:13

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#50 2021-06-17 16:48:41

Re: What will happen to Windows?

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