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#26 2021-02-28 20:37:23

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,697  
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Red Hat.

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd system, developed by the systemd project.


antifa ftw!

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#27 2021-02-28 21:35:58

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,289  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

systemd is a trojan horse that wants to own and destroy what we have worked for for so long.  Are you a trojan troll HoaS?  big_smile

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#28 2021-02-28 21:46:10

yeti
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From: I'm not here: U R halucinating
Registered: 2017-02-23
Posts: 253  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it.

How that?
I think I definitely know which of my penguins have caught the systemd flu and which have not.


𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖗𝖞𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝖈𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖘 𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖙 𝕺𝖗𝖌𝖒𝖔𝖉𝖊 𝖎𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖌𝖚𝖎𝖘𝖍𝖆𝖇𝖑𝖊 𝖋𝖗𝖔𝖒 𝖒𝖆𝖌𝖎𝖈.  – 𝖞𝖊𝖙𝖎.
𝕯𝖔𝖓'𝖙 𝖋𝖔𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖙 𝖙𝖔 𝖚𝖓𝖘𝖚𝖇𝖘𝖈𝖗𝖎𝖇𝖊!

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#29 2021-02-28 22:08:20

sgage
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Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 287  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Red Hat.

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd system, developed by the systemd project.

HoaS, you are a merry old troll indeed :-)

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#30 2021-03-01 00:55:10

dice
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Registered: 2020-11-22
Posts: 559  
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

brocashelm wrote:

Debian is without a doubt a distro. Technically speaking, GNU is the operating system that nearly all of the distros are produced from. We just call it "Linux" because it's more conventional, despite it fundamentally being nothing more than a kernel.


oops yes you are right, i always get confused on the distro / distrollete meaning. Technically speaking the debian website calls it "The Universal Operating System" or "The Operating System". Which i believe is a better term than distro, personally.

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#31 2021-03-01 12:32:15

brocashelm
Member
Registered: 2020-06-29
Posts: 74  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

It's the same as with Ubuntu being an "operating system", despite being a (piss poor) Debian fork. wink

I mean, 99.9% of the time, it's all the same junk. Just different package manager (or lack thereof), desktop environment (or lack thereof), window manager (or lack thereof), and/or configuration files. You can always repackage it anyway you'd like, but it's still GNU/Linux (or either GNU/Linux-libre or GNU/Hurd, if all hope is lost).

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#32 2021-03-01 12:54:02

bgstack15
Member
Registered: 2018-02-04
Posts: 202  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

HoaS was being funny. He knows the people critical of systemd are apt to call such distros that use systemd "systemd/Linux." He was initially quoting the rms copypasta (https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Interjection) but with "systemd/Linux" instead of "GNU/Linux." The uninitiated probably will misinterpret what he means, but to the informed, it was amusing if a bit off-topic!

HoAS has his hands in many pies, and he tolerates systemd better than we do, so he doesn't hate it.


This space intentionally left blank.

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#33 2021-03-01 14:20:17

dice
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Registered: 2020-11-22
Posts: 559  
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Id like to interject here..lol

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

SystemD is like a goul'd from startgate sg1, it takes over the host operating system and enslaves all the children! wink

Last edited by dice (2021-03-01 14:20:58)

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#34 2021-03-01 18:36:41

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,289  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

golinux high-fives dice

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#35 2021-03-01 19:04:47

yeti
Member
From: I'm not here: U R halucinating
Registered: 2017-02-23
Posts: 253  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

dice wrote:

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

Depends...
Something must load and start the kernel (kernel floppy, then prompting for root FS floppy), and there must be something that plays PID1, which could be a statically linked shell with lots of builtins (busybox?) and you'd need some pre-existing nodes in `/dev` or something like the old devfs to auto generate them.

These parts already ™should™ give a running system.

Or gave... I think the last time I did such experiments was in 0.99.15 days.


𝕰𝖛𝖊𝖗𝖞𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝖙𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝖈𝖔𝖒𝖊𝖘 𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖍𝖔𝖚𝖙 𝕺𝖗𝖌𝖒𝖔𝖉𝖊 𝖎𝖘 𝖉𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖌𝖚𝖎𝖘𝖍𝖆𝖇𝖑𝖊 𝖋𝖗𝖔𝖒 𝖒𝖆𝖌𝖎𝖈.  – 𝖞𝖊𝖙𝖎.
𝕯𝖔𝖓'𝖙 𝖋𝖔𝖗𝖌𝖊𝖙 𝖙𝖔 𝖚𝖓𝖘𝖚𝖇𝖘𝖈𝖗𝖎𝖇𝖊!

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#36 2021-03-02 13:35:13

dice
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Registered: 2020-11-22
Posts: 559  
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

golinux wrote:

golinux high-fives dice

wink

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#37 2021-03-02 13:43:53

dice
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Registered: 2020-11-22
Posts: 559  
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

yeti wrote:
dice wrote:

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

Depends...
Something must load and start the kernel (kernel floppy, then prompting for root FS floppy), and there must be something that plays PID1, which could be a statically linked shell with lots of builtins (busybox?) and you'd need some pre-existing nodes in `/dev` or something like the old devfs to auto generate them.

These parts already ™should™ give a running system.

Or gave... I think the last time I did such experiments was in 0.99.15 days.

busybox-static is an interesting piece of software, i believe this is more widely used by embedded systems like alpine linux and musl-libc based systems. Something i want to learn more about that is for sure.

Found this in regards to embedded debian. https://wiki.debian.org/Embedded_Debian

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#38 2021-03-02 15:36:46

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,697  
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Alpine Linux uses the dynamically-linked busybox version for /sbin/init, /bin/sh and the core utility programs that are usually supplied by GNU's coreutils package. So it should really be called Alpine busybox/Linux :-)

Static linking doesn't really work for glibc anyway, which is another advantage of musl libc.

I'll stop dragging this thread off-topic now. Sorry all.


antifa ftw!

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#39 2021-09-09 04:12:56

cafinux
Member
Registered: 2020-12-01
Posts: 5  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

A different take on this discussion, try seeing it this way. IBM saw linux as possibly being their baby, so proceeded to help themselves, systemd was a simple business decision. The init system is the perfect place to start to gain control of linux, note all the bits and pieces that have followed. They all share one common trait, they are all for control of your computer, whether it be networking IO or FS. Also note the existing systems normally operated perfectly, but are just getting swept aside.  The damning thing is Redhat has been profitable while they have done it, so they have made good money wrecking our system., they are laughing all the way to the bank. {>_<}

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#40 2021-09-09 05:25:12

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 348  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

cafinux wrote:

A different take on this discussion, try seeing it this way. IBM saw linux as possibly being their baby, so proceeded to help themselves, systemd was a simple business decision. The init system is the perfect place to start to gain control of linux, note all the bits and pieces that have followed. They all share one common trait, they are all for control of your computer, whether it be networking IO or FS. Also note the existing systems normally operated perfectly, but are just getting swept aside.  The damning thing is Redhat has been profitable while they have done it, so they have made good money wrecking our system., they are laughing all the way to the bank. {>_<}

Let me put this in simpler terms then, or if you prefer, my words:

Redhat and IBM both have one thing in common, they are purely motivated by an insatiable lust for power.

Thus, IBM bought Redhat for this reason...

Thus, I really would like to see their leaders swallowed by the earth.

Oh well, I can dream...


Black Lives Matter!  I am white, but I prefer equality over hatred.
Haughtiness comes before a fall, pride before destruction.
Peace be with you!
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon!

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