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#26 2021-02-28 20:37:23

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Red Hat.

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd system, developed by the systemd project.


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#27 2021-02-28 21:35:58

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

systemd is a trojan horse that wants to own and destroy what we have worked for for so long.  Are you a trojan troll HoaS?  big_smile

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#28 2021-02-28 21:46:10

yeti
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From: I'm not here: U R halucinating
Registered: 2017-02-23
Posts: 238  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it.

How that?
I think I definitely know which of my penguins have caught the systemd flu and which have not.

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#29 2021-02-28 22:08:20

sgage
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Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 276  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Red Hat.

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd system, developed by the systemd project.

HoaS, you are a merry old troll indeed :-)

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#30 2021-03-01 00:55:10

dice
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Registered: 2020-11-22
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

brocashelm wrote:

Debian is without a doubt a distro. Technically speaking, GNU is the operating system that nearly all of the distros are produced from. We just call it "Linux" because it's more conventional, despite it fundamentally being nothing more than a kernel.


oops yes you are right, i always get confused on the distro / distrollete meaning. Technically speaking the debian website calls it "The Universal Operating System" or "The Operating System". Which i believe is a better term than distro, personally.


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#31 2021-03-01 12:32:15

brocashelm
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Registered: 2020-06-29
Posts: 69  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

It's the same as with Ubuntu being an "operating system", despite being a (piss poor) Debian fork. wink

I mean, 99.9% of the time, it's all the same junk. Just different package manager (or lack thereof), desktop environment (or lack thereof), window manager (or lack thereof), and/or configuration files. You can always repackage it anyway you'd like, but it's still GNU/Linux (or either GNU/Linux-libre or GNU/Hurd, if all hope is lost).

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#32 2021-03-01 12:54:02

bgstack15
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Registered: 2018-02-04
Posts: 195  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

HoaS was being funny. He knows the people critical of systemd are apt to call such distros that use systemd "systemd/Linux." He was initially quoting the rms copypasta (https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Interjection) but with "systemd/Linux" instead of "GNU/Linux." The uninitiated probably will misinterpret what he means, but to the informed, it was amusing if a bit off-topic!

HoAS has his hands in many pies, and he tolerates systemd better than we do, so he doesn't hate it.


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#33 2021-03-01 14:20:17

dice
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Registered: 2020-11-22
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Id like to interject here..lol

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

SystemD is like a goul'd from startgate sg1, it takes over the host operating system and enslaves all the children! wink

Last edited by dice (2021-03-01 14:20:58)


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#34 2021-03-01 18:36:41

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

golinux high-fives dice

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#35 2021-03-01 19:04:47

yeti
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From: I'm not here: U R halucinating
Registered: 2017-02-23
Posts: 238  

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

dice wrote:

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

Depends...
Something must load and start the kernel (kernel floppy, then prompting for root FS floppy), and there must be something that plays PID1, which could be a statically linked shell with lots of builtins (busybox?) and you'd need some pre-existing nodes in `/dev` or something like the old devfs to auto generate them.

These parts already ™should™ give a running system.

Or gave... I think the last time I did such experiments was in 0.99.15 days.

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#36 2021-03-02 13:35:13

dice
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Registered: 2020-11-22
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

golinux wrote:

golinux high-fives dice

wink


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#37 2021-03-02 13:43:53

dice
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Registered: 2020-11-22
Posts: 453  
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

yeti wrote:
dice wrote:

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

Depends...
Something must load and start the kernel (kernel floppy, then prompting for root FS floppy), and there must be something that plays PID1, which could be a statically linked shell with lots of builtins (busybox?) and you'd need some pre-existing nodes in `/dev` or something like the old devfs to auto generate them.

These parts already ™should™ give a running system.

Or gave... I think the last time I did such experiments was in 0.99.15 days.

busybox-static is an interesting piece of software, i believe this is more widely used by embedded systems like alpine linux and musl-libc based systems. Something i want to learn more about that is for sure.

Found this in regards to embedded debian. https://wiki.debian.org/Embedded_Debian


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#38 2021-03-02 15:36:46

Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Alpine Linux uses the dynamically-linked busybox version for /sbin/init, /bin/sh and the core utility programs that are usually supplied by GNU's coreutils package. So it should really be called Alpine busybox/Linux :-)

Static linking doesn't really work for glibc anyway, which is another advantage of musl libc.

I'll stop dragging this thread off-topic now. Sorry all.


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