Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-02-28 20:37:23

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Red Hat.

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd system, developed by the systemd project.

golinux · 2021-02-28 21:35:58

systemd is a trojan horse that wants to own and destroy what we have worked for for so long. Are you a trojan troll HoaS?

yeti · 2021-02-28 21:46:10

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it.

How that?
I think I definitely know which of my penguins have caught the systemd flu and which have not.

sgage · 2021-02-28 22:08:20

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, systemd/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, systemd plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by Red Hat.
Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of systemd which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the systemd system, developed by the systemd project.

HoaS, you are a merry old troll indeed :-)

dice · 2021-03-01 00:55:10

brocashelm wrote:

Debian is without a doubt a distro. Technically speaking, GNU is the operating system that nearly all of the distros are produced from. We just call it "Linux" because it's more conventional, despite it fundamentally being nothing more than a kernel.

oops yes you are right, i always get confused on the distro / distrollete meaning. Technically speaking the debian website calls it "The Universal Operating System" or "The Operating System". Which i believe is a better term than distro, personally.

brocashelm · 2021-03-01 12:32:15

It's the same as with Ubuntu being an "operating system", despite being a (piss poor) Debian fork.

I mean, 99.9% of the time, it's all the same junk. Just different package manager (or lack thereof), desktop environment (or lack thereof), window manager (or lack thereof), and/or configuration files. You can always repackage it anyway you'd like, but it's still GNU/Linux (or either GNU/Linux-libre or GNU/Hurd, if all hope is lost).

bgstack15 · 2021-03-01 12:54:02

HoaS was being funny. He knows the people critical of systemd are apt to call such distros that use systemd "systemd/Linux." He was initially quoting the rms copypasta (https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Interjection) but with "systemd/Linux" instead of "GNU/Linux." The uninitiated probably will misinterpret what he means, but to the informed, it was amusing if a bit off-topic!

HoAS has his hands in many pies, and he tolerates systemd better than we do, so he doesn't hate it.

dice · 2021-03-01 14:20:17

Id like to interject here..lol

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

SystemD is like a goul'd from startgate sg1, it takes over the host operating system and enslaves all the children!

Last edited by dice (2021-03-01 14:20:58)

golinux · 2021-03-01 18:36:41

golinux high-fives dice

yeti · 2021-03-01 19:04:47

dice wrote:

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

Depends...
Something must load and start the kernel (kernel floppy, then prompting for root FS floppy), and there must be something that plays PID1, which could be a statically linked shell with lots of builtins (busybox?) and you'd need some pre-existing nodes in `/dev` or something like the old devfs to auto generate them.

These parts already ™should™ give a running system.

Or gave... I think the last time I did such experiments was in 0.99.15 days.

dice · 2021-03-02 13:35:13

golinux wrote:

golinux high-fives dice

dice · 2021-03-02 13:43:53

yeti wrote:

dice wrote:
The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?
Depends...
Something must load and start the kernel (kernel floppy, then prompting for root FS floppy), and there must be something that plays PID1, which could be a statically linked shell with lots of builtins (busybox?) and you'd need some pre-existing nodes in `/dev` or something like the old devfs to auto generate them.
These parts already ™should™ give a running system.
Or gave... I think the last time I did such experiments was in 0.99.15 days.

busybox-static is an interesting piece of software, i believe this is more widely used by embedded systems like alpine linux and musl-libc based systems. Something i want to learn more about that is for sure.

Found this in regards to embedded debian. https://wiki.debian.org/Embedded_Debian

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-03-02 15:36:46

Alpine Linux uses the dynamically-linked busybox version for /sbin/init, /bin/sh and the core utility programs that are usually supplied by GNU's coreutils package. So it should really be called Alpine busybox/Linux :-)

Static linking doesn't really work for glibc anyway, which is another advantage of musl libc.

I'll stop dragging this thread off-topic now. Sorry all.

cafinux · 2021-09-09 04:12:56

A different take on this discussion, try seeing it this way. IBM saw linux as possibly being their baby, so proceeded to help themselves, systemd was a simple business decision. The init system is the perfect place to start to gain control of linux, note all the bits and pieces that have followed. They all share one common trait, they are all for control of your computer, whether it be networking IO or FS. Also note the existing systems normally operated perfectly, but are just getting swept aside. The damning thing is Redhat has been profitable while they have done it, so they have made good money wrecking our system., they are laughing all the way to the bank. {>_<}

zapper · 2021-09-09 05:25:12

cafinux wrote:

A different take on this discussion, try seeing it this way. IBM saw linux as possibly being their baby, so proceeded to help themselves, systemd was a simple business decision. The init system is the perfect place to start to gain control of linux, note all the bits and pieces that have followed. They all share one common trait, they are all for control of your computer, whether it be networking IO or FS. Also note the existing systems normally operated perfectly, but are just getting swept aside. The damning thing is Redhat has been profitable while they have done it, so they have made good money wrecking our system., they are laughing all the way to the bank. {>_<}

Let me put this in simpler terms then, or if you prefer, my words:

Redhat and IBM both have one thing in common, they are purely motivated by an insatiable lust for power.

Thus, IBM bought Redhat for this reason...

Thus, I really would like to see their leaders swallowed by the earth.

Oh well, I can dream...

jue-gen · 2023-07-31 11:21:33

"Systemd 254 is already available in Arch-Testing, Debian and, oddly enough, Devuan-Unstable, Gentoo and Fedora Rawhide, with more distributions to follow. On October 2, systemd 255 is to follow as the next version."
I read this here:
https://linuxnews.de/systemd-254-deklar … -veraltet/

Last edited by jue-gen (2023-07-31 13:20:23)

fsmithred · 2023-08-01 17:23:08

"Systemd 254 is already available in Arch-Testing, Debian and, oddly enough, Devuan-Unstable,

Nope.

root@devuan:/home/user# aptitude -s install systemd
No candidate version found for systemd   
Unable to apply some actions, aborting
root@devuan:/home/user# apt policy libc6
libc6:
  Installed: 2.36-9
  Candidate: 2.36-9
  Version table:
     2.37-6 10
         500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres/main amd64 Packages
 *** 2.36-9 100
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
root@devuan:/home/user# apt policy systemd
systemd:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: (none)
  Version table:
root@devuan:/home/user# grep -v ^# /etc/apt/sources.list

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main

jue-gen · 2023-08-01 19:19:24

fsmithred wrote:

... Nope ...

Yes, I realize that. But there seems to be a bit of confusion among the friends of linuxnews.de.
https://linuxnews.de/systemd-254-deklar … -veraltet/

rolfie · 2023-08-01 19:22:43

Sometimes they write nonsense ....

jue-gen · 2023-08-01 20:06:42

rolfie wrote:

Sometimes they write nonsense ....

Yes, that seems to be the case. But in this way, nonsense is spread about Devuan. I don't have (and don't want) an account at linuxnews.de, otherwise I would write a statement.

golinux · 2023-08-01 20:13:44

If not you, who? Don't you want to be part of the solution?

jue-gen · 2023-08-01 20:25:56

golinux wrote:

If not you, who? Don't you want to be part of the solution?

All right. I will register with this forum and I will correct it as best I can.

golinux · 2023-08-01 21:18:54

Thanks for standing up to correct a misconception about Devuan, jue-gen! Please do make it a habit to do so wherever you see such nonsense. Feels good, doesn't it!?

linuxnews · 2023-08-02 09:24:38

jue-gen wrote:

rolfie wrote:
Sometimes they write nonsense ....
Yes, that seems to be the case. But in this way, nonsense is spread about Devuan. I don't have (and don't want) an account at linuxnews.de, otherwise I would write a statement.

LinuxNews here. The 'nonsense' did not come from me. Please complain at https://repology.org/project/systemd/versions. Thank you.

soren · 2023-08-02 11:01:47

It would seem this repology is not a very good metric to get package information from.

https://repology.org/repository/devuan_unstable
This repository does not provide links to package recipes or sources in a way accessible by Repology. This is critical, because one of the goals of Repology is to make the details of how a project is packaged visible to anyone. It makes Repology maintenance harder as it's not possible to easily check where a specific version comes from; it does not allow upstream to check the recipe and improve their software to simplify packaging, or suggest corrections to the maintainer; it does not allow other maintainers to learn new ideas. It may be as well dangerous to users due to lack of transparency. Because of that, this repository is subject to removal in the near future.
See documentation for a best way to make package metadata available for Repology.

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#26 2021-02-28 20:37:23

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#27 2021-02-28 21:35:58

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#28 2021-02-28 21:46:10

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#29 2021-02-28 22:08:20

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#30 2021-03-01 00:55:10

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#31 2021-03-01 12:32:15

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#32 2021-03-01 12:54:02

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#33 2021-03-01 14:20:17

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#34 2021-03-01 18:36:41

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#35 2021-03-01 19:04:47

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#36 2021-03-02 13:35:13

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#37 2021-03-02 13:43:53

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#38 2021-03-02 15:36:46

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#39 2021-09-09 04:12:56

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#40 2021-09-09 05:25:12

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#41 2023-07-31 11:21:33

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#42 2023-08-01 17:23:08

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#43 2023-08-01 19:19:24

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#44 2023-08-01 19:22:43

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#45 2023-08-01 20:06:42

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#46 2023-08-01 20:13:44

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#47 2023-08-01 20:25:56

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#48 2023-08-01 21:18:54

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#49 2023-08-02 09:24:38

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

#50 2023-08-02 11:01:47

Re: Why are systemd files present in Devuan?

Board footer