Choose your browser carefully

Ron · 2020-11-01 23:28:24

blackhole wrote:

@Ron, is "old and obsolete, though still actively developed, code" better?

First off, old, yes; obsolete, no, yet more misinformation. Please stop with your misinformation. To answer your question, yes older code is better. Here is why (link below). I'd like to see how you will contradict it. The author of this article co-founded Fog Creek Software. He also worked with Jeff Atwood to create Stack Overflow and served as CEO of Stack Overflow from 2010-2019. He also served as the chairman of the board for Stack Overflow, Glitch, and HASH.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/ … do-part-i/

Last edited by Ron (2020-11-01 23:33:07)

blackhole · 2020-11-02 00:38:33

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Juicy issue thread for those who are curious: https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/issues/86
So the Palemoon devs were assholes and pissed off ibara sufficiently that he dropped the port. @ibara is active over at daemonforums.org and he is an absolute legend, I will hear no ill will spoken of him.

They are even bigger cunts than I took them for... Threatening and talking trademarks, while quoting the MPL... when they simply patch obsolete Mozilla code and stick their own badge on it and release as proprietary freeware.

I'm just disappointed that Ibara bothered to try and port the thing at all.

@golinux, thanks I just hope headstick's link will be an education for some as to nature of the arseholes involvled in that project. But I don't hold out much hope, because fanbois are so often taken in by such snake oil salesmen.

@Ron, old code - especially something based on netscape, also has vulnerabilities or fundamental design flaws... new code can have the same, but developers of newer code don't really have any excuses.

Last edited by blackhole (2020-11-02 00:49:35)

Ron · 2020-11-02 01:47:08

Did you bother to get the other side of the story?

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.ph … 56#p134236

A lot of this stuff I really don't get, I admit. But from what I can glean from it, they made some changes that weren't allowed for it to still be called Pale Moon. What's the problem with that? That would be like me getting a Ford car, putting in a GM engine, but still labeling it and selling it as a Ford, which would clearly be wrong. Am I right or am I wrong? Also, they still had the opportunity to revert what they had done so they could use official branding, or they could have kept what they did and use unofficial branding, or they could have called it a fork and used their own branding. Yet the PM devs are called the assholes? What reality are you guys living in?

blackhole wrote:
. . . Threatening and talking trademarks, while quoting the MPL.

Anybody pushing for Chromium, Gooble, or their lapdog Mozilla, has no credibility in making this statement.

Last edited by Ron (2020-11-02 03:02:04)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-11-02 19:26:48

blackhole wrote:

headstick

Oh, hello cynwulf, I didn't recognise you in your new sockpuppet

Ron wrote:

from what I can glean from it, they made some changes that weren't allowed for it to still be called Pale Moon. What's the problem with that?

OpenBSD ports are not allowed to supply their own bundled libraries for security reasons. This is also the reason why Palemoon isn't in the Debian repositories.

ibara could have still used the system libraries and just rebranded the port as Newmoon (or whatever) and I strongly suspect he would have done so had the Palemoon people not been such a bunch of wankstains.

So there is no "fued" between the OpenBSD & Palemoon devs and if a competent Newmoon port was submitted it would be accepted.

And just for the record I agree with blackhole about the potential security problems with Palemoon — it is based on a very old, highly vulnerable FF version which does not have the Seccomp BPF isolation offered by the current versions.

EDIT: and here's what lintian(1) thinks about Steve Pusser's Palemoon .deb package:

$ lintian --no-tag-display-limit Downloads/palemoon_28.15.0-1_amd64.deb 
E: palemoon: embedded-library usr/lib/palemoon/libmozavutil.so: libavutil
E: palemoon: embedded-library usr/lib/palemoon/libnspr4.so: nspr
E: palemoon: embedded-library usr/lib/palemoon/libnss3.so: nss
E: palemoon: embedded-library usr/lib/palemoon/libxul.so: libpng
W: palemoon: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/palemoon
N: 1 tag overridden (1 error); 1 unused override
$

From the tag description:

embedded-library
The given ELF object appears to have been statically linked to a library. Doing this is strongly discouraged due to the extra work needed by the security team to fix all the extra embedded copies or trigger the package rebuilds, as appropriate.
If the package uses a modified version of the given library it is highly recommended to coordinate with the library's maintainer to include the changes on the system version of the library.

Not good.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2020-11-02 20:23:56)

Ron · 2020-11-02 23:05:24

Yes, let us bow ourselves down to our overlords, Gooble and Mozilla. They have our best interests at heart. Over and out.

Last edited by Ron (2020-11-02 23:18:56)

blackhole · 2020-11-02 23:47:50

Ron wrote:

Did you bother to get the other side of the story?
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.ph … 56#p134236
A lot of this stuff I really don't get, I admit.

Clearly. Did you check the times of postings? Did you read Ibara's OP in the thread you linked? He was given less than 24 hours before they sent in some cretinous amateur legal rep, with "cease and desist" threats...

Did you consider that it was a private individual attempting to port the software to OpenBSD and not in any way someone representing the project? Did you consider that it was someone who was not out for commercial gain, who was only creating a port of the browser on OpenBSD as a service to others? If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with FOSS and you should immediately switch to Mozilla or google as that's exactly how they operate. In fact, somehwhat in Mozilla's defense, they were never so obnoxious in their dealings with Debian during the Iceweasel years - and they were obnoxious enough - but unlike this petty project, they may have at least had reason to be - as the developers of the software.

Ron wrote:

But from what I can glean from it, they made some changes that weren't allowed for it to still be called Pale Moon. What's the problem with that?

Nothing "wrong with it" as such, that's the terms of the MPL, as defined by the organisation you seem to hate so much, who incidentally created firefox and developed it on from the codebase as provided by the netscape browser. Your cult of personality "Moon Child", simply patches older code and adds his own branding and logo and then issues threats - check the licence before you deign to lecture others. There are few other FOSS projects using such a licence and issuing such threats.

Ron wrote:

That would be like me getting a Ford car, putting in a GM engine, but still labeling it and selling it as a Ford, which would clearly be wrong. Am I right or am I wrong?

You're wrong.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Oh, hello cynwulf, I didn't recognise you in your new sockpuppet

Errr what... ummmm?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

ibara could have still used the system libraries and just rebranded the port as Newmoon (or whatever) and I strongly suspect he would have done so had the Palemoon people not been such a bunch of wankstains.

It's obvious to me as to Ibara's intentions. The "Palemoon people" simply chose to wave their "legal" dicks around...

In terms of their credibility - all doubt has now been removed. Pompous, self important pricks...

Which reminds me - nice to see you headstick.

Last edited by blackhole (2020-11-03 00:16:51)

golinux · 2020-11-03 01:16:29

Is it time to lock this useless thread?

zapper · 2020-11-03 06:04:33

golinux wrote:

Is it time to lock this useless thread?

Please do, nothing good will come from it...

It's just a bunch of flaming... which I realize i definitely participated in, but yeah...

This isn't doing anything beneficial.

+1 for locking this dumb thread

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-11-03 19:02:59

blackhole wrote:

Pompous, self important pricks...
Which reminds me - nice to see you headstick.

I almost forgot how entertaining your posts are. I hope you stick around.

golinux · 2020-11-03 19:36:31

zapper wrote:

golinux wrote:
Is it time to lock this useless thread?
Please do, nothing good will come from it...
It's just a bunch of flaming... which I realize i definitely participated in, but yeah...
This isn't doing anything beneficial.
+1 for locking this dumb thread

Yes, I agree but that's the easy way out of this. I'd rather see a collective effort of restraint that would also serve to challenge each participant's personal growth trajectory. That's a win/win solution for everyone to cultivate the concept of personal responsibility. If that fails, I'll reconsider . . .

msi · 2020-11-03 20:05:01

zapper wrote:

+1 for locking this dumb thread

Well, this wasn't a "dumb thread" when I started it.

Looking at how fast it went off the rails in several respects, though, I regret having opened it in the first place.

Some people, it seems, just can't have a civil discussion. And, apparently, you're one of them.

Altoid · 2020-11-03 20:06:54

golinux wrote:

... that's the easy way out ...
... everyone to cultivate the concept of personal responsibility.

+1
But gets really messy sometimes.

A.

zapper · 2020-11-03 20:22:23

msi wrote:

zapper wrote:
+1 for locking this dumb thread
Well, this wasn't a "dumb thread" when I started it.
Looking at how fast it went off the rails in several respects, though, I regret having opened it in the first place.
Some people, it seems, just can't have a civil discussion. And, apparently, you're one of them.

I do at least admit I have some issues, I just don't like it when people outright make up scrap to satisfy their own goals/beliefs.

The addon structure for palemoon may not get updated as often, meaning individual addons, but whether its old code or not, the new code is just effed up to hell and back. I mean it is google's code so... yeah. I don't want a webkit chromium empire.

That being said, my real issue came when people started to mock me and think they are entitled to think they are better than me.

I hate being looked down on. When people do that, it can tick me off. People who think their superior to others tend to be the real ones who are inferior.

PS, yes it did go off the rails... sorry... I should learn to stay away from extremists like magicbanana and blackhole...

They will just try to make me feel like crap.

EDIT: and when I feel like crap, I usually only go off the rails myself just like them.

Last edited by zapper (2020-11-03 20:23:05)

zapper · 2020-11-03 20:24:16

golinux wrote:

zapper wrote:
golinux wrote:
Is it time to lock this useless thread?
Please do, nothing good will come from it...
It's just a bunch of flaming... which I realize i definitely participated in, but yeah...
This isn't doing anything beneficial.
+1 for locking this dumb thread
Yes, I agree but that's the easy way out of this. I'd rather see a collective effort of restraint that would also serve to challenge each participant's personal growth trajectory. That's a win/win solution for everyone to cultivate the concept of personal responsibility. If that fails, I'll reconsider . . .

Well, hope not taking the "easy way out" works... I am definitely unsubscribing from this topic for now though. Too much flames...

Ron · 2020-11-03 23:01:07

msi wrote:

zapper wrote:
+1 for locking this dumb thread
Well, this wasn't a "dumb thread" when I started it.
Looking at how fast it went off the rails in several respects, though, I regret having opened it in the first place.
Some people, it seems, just can't have a civil discussion. And, apparently, you're one of them.

He's not the only one. Some of the words used by two posters here shows they have the mentality of grade-schoolers.

blackhole · 2020-11-03 23:58:20

No.

Ron and zapper retaliated to post no 4, with the somewhat condescending "stockholm syndrome" comments, then proceeded with a line of argumentation in much the same format - i.e emotionally charged and misinformed.

Then when I offered critique of their top favourite web browser, grew more hostile and emotional and continued to paint me as a google fan / apologist.

I'm more of a Microsoft fan actually.

zapper · 2020-11-04 00:33:41

blackhole wrote:

No.
Ron and zapper retaliated to post no 4, with the somewhat condescending "stockholm syndrome" comments, then proceeded with a line of argumentation in much the same format - i.e emotionally charged and misinformed.
Then when I offered critique of their top favourite web browser, grew more hostile and emotional and continued to paint me as a google fan / apologist.
I'm more of a Microsoft fan actually.

Why would you support microsoft? I don't get it...

That puzzles me to no end.

Maybe I was emotionally charged, but even still, I at least admit my sins...

Do you?

The problem is, I have had to deal with users who do the same thing, before in another forum, so forgive me if I don't feel like this isn't the same old, same old... all over again.

I never said you had stockholm syndrome btw, but I do think your scoffing at me a hell of a lot.

Why did I come back? meh... Idk... I did unsubscribe, I just don't want to be emailed about this crap anymore.

But If I feel inclined I will take a look.

I don't support google, microsoft and especially apple or redhat. btw, I begin to wonder...

Someone showed me an article, say what you want about this, but I begin to wonder how much of this is true...

https://www.unixsheikh.com/articles/why … l#hijacked

Btw just a quick edit, yes the code is old, but that doesn't mean its obsolete. its still being worked on. besides, why surrender to any corporation like google, microsoft, apple, redhat or corrupt company like them, etc... yes that includes mozilla. They shouldnt have changed to webextensions.

Last edited by zapper (2020-11-04 00:37:47)

golinux · 2020-11-04 01:13:02

You both failed the challenge offered rather spectacularly. Thread is now locked.

Your final summations remind me of this original Star Trek episode. Same polar dynamic . . .

Are either of you even using Devuan?

Perhaps you can find a more suitable place than this forum to amuse yourselves since you seem to be incapable of evolving beyond such primitive, knee-jerk behavior.

Really . . . get over yourselves . . .

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#26 2020-11-01 23:28:24

Re: Choose your browser carefully

#27 2020-11-02 00:38:33

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#29 2020-11-02 19:26:48

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#30 2020-11-02 23:05:24

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#32 2020-11-03 01:16:29

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