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#1 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » new light pdf viewer/reader for Chimaera » 2024-05-08 14:15:55

Devuan is Debian with systemd init system removed.

Devuan does not add software that is not in Debian, (aside from a small number of packages for achieving the above).

Devuan uses Debian's repositories for almost all of its packages, so to get software in Devuan it must exist in the corresponding Debian repositories.

To get software in Devuan Chimaera it must exist in Debian 11 Bullseye repositories.

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Debian is a stable OS. Stable means not changing too much.

Once released, Debian avoids changes, except for significant bugs and security.

The only way to get new software from Debian 12 repos into Debian 11 is through Backports.

New software arrives in Devuan 4 Chimaera via chimaera-backports repo, which pulls from bullseye-backports.

This does not involve using Debian 12's deb file, it means re-building a new deb from source with appropriate dependencies.

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In summary: if you want Sioyek backported to Bullseye, you must create that backport and/or petition the Debian Backports team.

#2 Re: Freedom Hacks » Seeking feedback on scripts » 2024-05-07 21:34:05

delgado wrote:

I saw a little something: Files in "/etc/apt/preferences.d/" need to have the extension ".pref". Otherwise apt ignores them and complains.

Inaccurate.

Files only need to end in .pref if there is another . in the filename, but it is acceptable to have no extension.

Also, it is not guaranteed Apt will complain - if a file is called something.disabled or something.bak it will be ignored without complaint.

man apt_preferences wrote:

Note that the files in the /etc/apt/preferences.d directory are parsed in alphanumeric ascending order and need to obey the following naming convention: The files have either no or "pref" as filename extension and only contain alphanumeric, hyphen (-), underscore (_) and period (.) characters. Otherwise APT will print a notice that it has ignored a file, unless that file matches a pattern in the Dir::Ignore-Files-Silently configuration list - in which case it will be silently ignored.

man apt.conf wrote:

The Ignore-Files-Silently list can be used to specify which files APT should silently ignore while parsing the files in the fragment directories. Per default a file which ends with .disabled, ~, .bak or .dpkg-[a-z]+ is silently ignored. As seen in the last default value these patterns can use regular expression syntax.

#3 Re: Freedom Hacks » Seeking feedback on scripts » 2024-05-07 14:45:19

Line 3 of the first script has a syntax error.

ShellCheck is an essential tool for people writing shell scripts.

Comments are easier to read when there's a space after the hash.

Don't assume you know where the script is running from.

Don't use "../.config/whatever" - use "$XDG_CONFIG_HOME/whatever". (If the variable might not be defined, you can use : ${XDG_CONFIG_HOME:=$HOME/.config} to fix that.)

iptables is deprecated. I'm pretty certain Devuan comes with nftables pre-installed.

Blindly downloading and executing an online script is never a great idea, but you don't even check if it works before continuing.

Actually, there's several examples in both scripts where you assume previous commands will work, but do not verify that they have.

#4 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Installing devuan on vps » 2024-05-06 17:04:12

To clarify, use [code]PASTE TERMINAL OUTPUT HERE[/code] tags, (because it preserves formatting, making it easier to read).

For short/inline commands, use [c]inline code[/c] tags.

Do not use quote tags.

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(p.s. Since apt policy accepts multiple package names, one can use apt policy default-dbus-session-bus dbus-session-bus xfconf instead of three distinct commands. It also supports wildcards, so one could use apt policy '*dbus-session*' to see all matching packages.)

#5 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Broken link fix? » 2024-05-06 14:07:46

apt list | grep installed | grep "openjdk"

Or simply apt list --installed openjdk\*

So, I tried to get rid of it...
I would only install it if I was programming, I'm not.

Programmers would use the JDK, not the JRE.

Ignore the (poorly chosen) "openjdk" name, it's the bit after the number.

The JRE is the runtime environment - for users running software - and whilst some software can run across different versions, others require a specific version (because functionality might get renamed/removed between major versions).

It's entirely possible for a regular non-programmer users to have 8, 11, and 17 installed for three different pieces of software, and to need all three of them.

If one only installs correctly packaged software via Apt, then Apt should know if a package is still needed or not.

However, if one has any Java software they use outside of Apt (e.g. in /opt), they should carefully test it to determine what JRE version(s) they might need to keep. (And consider creating a stub package for it so Apt knows it still needs it.)

#6 Re: Forum Feedback » [SOLVED] Forum timeout while logged in » 2024-04-28 17:01:31

I write concise posts. They can take time.

(Thinking is good for you. More people should try it.)
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However, I also tick the checkbox on the login page, which changes the timeout from its default (30m) to 20,160 minutes. Two weeks may be annoying when returning from holiday or occasionally using a second machine, but is plenty long enough to compose a single reply.

If using one's own device, there is no good reason not to tick that checkbox.

If on someone else's machine, a majority can still tick it, then simply logout manually and/or close the private browsing windows to end the session.

#7 Re: Documentation » Install Docker on Devuan » 2024-04-27 12:58:12

Running sudo apt update && sudo apt dist-upgrade -y is unnecessary.

Tutoring people to suppress confirmation prompts on any command is rude, but on a dist-upgrade - where one doesn't know the side-effects - it is doubly so.

#8 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » fsck "FEATURE_C12"? » 2024-04-25 15:53:32

I doubt very much that I would have installed Chimaera on a partition formatted by tumbleweed

... is contrary to...

it was probably formatted with bleeding-edge tumbleweed

In any case, if running e2fsck on Tumbleweed is changing the filesystems options to enable an otherwise disabled feature, that is either a Tumbleweed issue and/or operator error. (If running the command regularly is actually necessary, try doing it from a system that preserves compatibility, i.e. Daedalus.)

Devuan does not modify Debian packages unless they are systemd-entangled; since e2fs is unrelated to systemd, Devuan uses Debian's packages directly, as can be seen at pkginfo.devuan.org/e2fsprogs and the lack of "-devuan" in any of the versions.

Devuan team members have repeatedly pointed out that the Devuan devs have enough work keeping up with in-scope changes, so increasing their workload with out-of-scope tasks is simply not going to happen.

Not being a developer isn't relevant. Security issues aside, the potential way for getting a new version of a package into Chimaera/Bullseye repos is via Backports. If one doesn't have the ability/time/whatever to do that oneself, they must find someone who does.

Of course, given there is already a backported version for Bullseye/Chimaera, asking on the debian-backports mailing list about getting that updated would seem to be appropriate.

#9 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » fsck "FEATURE_C12"? » 2024-04-25 14:35:31

The authoritative answer on what version Debian is running, is found by consulting Debian, (not a random comment on Reddit).

At time of writing, //tracker.debian.org/pkg/e2fsprogs contains

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/e2fsprogs wrote:

o-o-stable: 1.44.5-1+deb10u3
o-o-sec: 1.44.5-1+deb10u2
oldstable: 1.46.2-2
old-bpo: 1.46.6-1~bpo11+1
stable: 1.47.0-2
testing: 1.47.0-2
unstable: 1.47.0-2.4

So is it "C12 aware", and what does that even mean?

That same page links to the changelog, which usually would be enough to identify what is relevant, but "FEATURE_C12" is generated, so one must search the source for the error message: //sources.debian.org/src/e2fsprogs/1.47.0-2/e2fsck/unix.c/?hl=1832#L1832
Then search again for the definition of e2p_feature2string: //sources.debian.org/src/e2fsprogs/1.47.0-2/lib/e2p/feature.c/#L144

And one can then see that "FEATURE_C12" relates to the 12th Compat feature - i.e. EXT4_FEATURE_COMPAT_ORPHAN_FILE in versions that know what it is - but because earlier versions doesn't know of orphan_file feature, it gets the generated name. (If a similar issue was to re-occur in future, the error message would probably reference "FEATURE_C13" or "FEATURE_C14".)

Consulting the changelog one can see orphan_file is new in 1.47 (not in earlier versions), One can also see that Debian specifically patched it to turn the feature off by default, prior to Bookworm release, to avoid this exact backwards compatibility issue, so the issue only affects people who create filesystems on non-Debian-based systems.

The suggestion that the "fix" is to have Devuan devs spending their time to upgrade a package because a filesystem was formatted with a bleeding-edge Tumbleweed is absurd. It also demonstrates a lack of understanding of what Devuan is.

If you want 1.47 in Devuan Chimaera, you can work with Debian Backports team to determine if that can happen: //backports.debian.org/Contribute/

#10 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Nala, a new cli package manager replacement for dpkg and apt » 2024-04-18 18:14:02

Um... anyone who has trouble seeing red and/or green will probably already have reconfigured their terminal colours accordingly, so they can adequately see/discern those colours in everything that isn't Apt, no?

If they haven't, or if they need Apt to be different, they can set APT::Color::Red and/or APT::Color::Green as appropriate.

Not only that, but this change has only just entered Unstable - which is where such things are tested and changed if needed, long before making it to an actual release, so if this change is detrimental then something can be done about it.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel a real journalist should have bothered to do the small amount of research it took to confirm the configurability? Maybe they simply had a minimum word count to reach and couldn't be arsed...

#11 Re: Off-topic » The Register article - Linux Foundation and Open Source » 2024-04-12 16:04:30

Marketing bullshit.

Any time you see the word "Foundation", look at the members/funding page to get an idea of who is actually represented.

This comment comes from an earlier Register article promoting the LF's Redis fork (Valkey):

https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2024/04/03/open_source_redis_alternative/#c_4838574 wrote:

> "The Linux Foundation chose community over sponsors,"

> AWS, Google, Snap Inc, Ericsson, and Oracle are joining the Linux Foundation in backing a fork of the Redis code.

This is who The Linux Foundation means when it talks about "community".

For an alternative, there is also Redict, a fork by a community of humans.

Human-run projects are good.

Especially when they react promptly and clearly with a declaration of why they exist, where they're going, oh and here's a stable release already.

Under two weeks compared to the Linux Foundation claiming "Valkey will take a few months to spin up" - it'll probably take LF that long to create a bloated JS-infested website, and add a bunch of new dependencies and other unnecessary complications.

#12 Re: Packaging for Devuan » [SOLVED] kicad 7 vs kicad 8. » 2024-03-27 17:41:25

Check the maintainer field when you look at "apt info PACKAGENAME".

Does it mention Devuan? (No, it doesn't.)

If the v8 packages are not backwards compatible, then it's a Debian bug, which you should raise via Debian's bug tracking system.

#13 Devuan » Dependency trees on pkginfo.devuan.org are unstable » 2024-03-21 19:36:03

boughtonp
Replies: 0

I noticed the debtree link for Chimaera and Daedalus packages go to the same page, even when there are differing dependencies.

Looking at the debtree man page, I'm guessing this is a limitation of that software:

man debtree wrote:

If multiple versions of a package are available, the dependency information for the highest available version will be used

Which, given the way pkginfo.devuan.org is setup, suggests that the debtree is always going to represent the newest packages - i.e. whatever is in Ceres/unstable - and checking (e.g.) xserver-xorg-core confirms this to be the case.

I'm assuming that resolving this would be non-trivial, but it should be easy enough to add a suitable clarification to the output generated by the debtree-query.html script?

#14 Re: Off-topic » question regarding hyperbola os » 2024-03-12 20:25:37

Forums truncating URLs is a common annoying anti-feature.

With the (poorly written) FluxBB software this forum uses, it is hard-coded to occur above 55 characters. (The internal forum links are 53 characters, so do not trigger it.)

The auto-linking functionality can be bypassed by deleting the entire protocol, which means also avoiding the truncating functionality, is less ugly than deleting just one letter, and can be either screenshotted or copy-pasted without issue, and without need to manually add h to the start.

It can be done by holding ctrl whilst tapping del twice - compared to deleting a single letter it's a tiny amount of extra work for the author, and removes the need for readers to add a letter.

(Also, if an unlinked URL is the only thing on a line, it can be quickly selected by triple-clicking.)

#15 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] Can't use my Directories » 2024-03-12 19:37:15

> I don't have sha256sum and apt ( or synaptic) can't find it.

/usr/bin/sha256sum is part of coreutils, which is an Essential package in Debian-based distros.

#16 Re: Installation » radicale not starting with init-script » 2024-03-10 00:28:14

There is no radicale package maintainer in Devuan because there is no radicale package in Devuan - Devuan uses the Debian package unmodified.

Devuan only modifies a relatively small number of Debian packages (to remove systemd entanglement - usually when a package has "Depends: systemd"), the majority of packages are unmodified from Debian repositories.

(In addition to searching as you did, you can tell when you have a Devuan-modified package by looking for "devuan" in the Version, and checking for "pool/DEVUAN/" at the start of the filename. The radicale package does not have these, because it comes from Debian.)

So, if Debian's radicale package supplies a sysvinit script (which it appears to here), and you've identified a problem with that script, then the report should go via Debian's bug tracker  (i.e. not direct to Radicale's bug tracker).

#17 Re: Devuan Derivatives » antiX 23.1 "init-diversity" edition » 2024-03-03 12:25:58

bimon wrote:

What do you think about creating a systemd like CLI and service definitions for Devuan with S6 init ?

My idea is to create a wrapper which would automatically translate somehow config files looking like systemd into S6 syntax when any such config file has been changed and its syntax has been linted without an error.

For something similar (unrelated to s6), see sr.ht/~craftyguy/superd

https://sr.ht/~craftyguy/superd/ wrote:

superd is a user service supervisor that is only intended to be used for supervising user services. It makes absolutely no attempt to replace init/pid 1, and should never be used do to that.
...
Service configuration uses systemd's .service files, so that it's low(er) effort to configure services. Many things intended to run as user services already have systemd config written.

#18 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Using seatd in Chimaera » 2024-02-29 16:21:53

*bump*

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/seatd wrote:

old-bpo: 0.7.0-6~bpo11+1
stable: 0.7.0-6
testing: 0.8.0-1
unstable: 0.8.0-1

https://pkginfo.devuan.org/seatd wrote:

0.8.0-1+b1 ceres excalibur
0.7.0-6 daedalus
0.5.0-1 chimaera

The Debian seatd source at //sources.debian.org/src/seatd/0.7.0-6~bpo11+1/ indicates the upstream sourcecode repository is //git.devuan.org/devuan/seatd

The list of tags has "debian/0.7.0-6" but no "devuan/anything" since 0.5.0-1 (despite daedalus,ceres,excalibur having newer versions), and also no tag matching the bullseye backport 0.7.0-6~bpo11+1.

So I'm assuming that from 0.5.0-2 onwards both Debian and Devuan have been using the same version, and the only actual difference between seatd_0.7.0-6_amd64.deb and seatd_0.7.0-6~bpo11+1_amd64.deb are different libc versions used when compiling the binaries.

Is there any reason installing seatd_0.7.0-6~bpo11+1_amd64.deb from bullseye-backports repo on a chimaera system will cause issues?

#19 Re: Other Issues » Installing latest xfce4-terminal » 2024-02-29 15:42:33

mobius wrote:

I am unclear as to your suggestion:

Add Devuan Testing repos to existing Devaun installation, or

Install Devuan Testing in VM?

I was suggesting running Devuan Testing in a VM to confirm that the v1.1.1 provides what you want.

I have also yet to properly checkout how backports are created - though the link fsmithred provided probably provides that information (and there looks to be a simpler guide at //wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation for personal use) - but the first step is confirming there's a suitable version in Debian/Devuan repos, hence why the suggestion to try the version Devuan Testing provides.

#20 Re: Other Issues » Installing latest xfce4-terminal » 2024-02-28 23:39:14

I don't see shortcut preference changes in the v1.1.2 changelog (at //gitlab.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-terminal/-/tags), but v1.1.0 appears to have a bunch of potentially-relevant changes.

Since Devuan Testing has v1.1.1, a sensible first step would be to test that in a VM and see if it does have the desired functionality. If so, looking into what it might take to get that version backported would be worth checking.

#21 Re: Off-topic » Undergarment Brouhaha » 2024-02-28 23:19:15

Why is this nonsense bickering still going on? (That's a question to answer in your own head, not an invitation to prolong it.)

Alex's joke is clearly just that: a joke. It is not an attempt to humiliate anyone. (And if it was such an attempt, there are better ways to deal with that.)

Yes, it's off-topic noise, but they are neither alone in making such posts, nor the worst offender.

If there was a problem, Oui is capable of standing up for themselves and/or reporting it themselves.

(I wouldn't be surprised if the only problem Oui had was annoyance at two thirds of the posts in this thread being completely off-topic.)

#22 Re: Other Issues » Installing latest xfce4-terminal » 2024-02-27 22:24:42

Devuan is an OS for people that want stable well-tested software NOT the latest versions - it is not a rolling source distro (like Artix/Gentoo/Slackware/etc).

Further, trying to install packages from GitHub is liable to cause problems - if one has a good reason to install from source (for a newer version than "apt-get source" will give), the correct location to obtain the source code is either git.devuan.org/devuan or sources.debian.org (depending on whether Devuan has modified that package or not), but again there's no guarantee that compiling newer source will work.

Finally, if gcc is actually installed then the binary will be at /usr/bin/gcc - which is in the path - and if you're not aware of things like that, it's a good sign you need to do more learning before trying to install from source (or that you shouldn't bother because you probably don't need the latest version, or if you really do need it then go with an OS that provides it out of the box, like those mentioned above).

#23 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » merged /usr » 2024-02-27 16:18:39

See //sources.debian.org/src/dpkg/1.22.5/debian/dpkg.postinst/

Presumably the Devuan vendor value is not "debian", and someone needs to do what Kali have done and submit a patch.

#24 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] tomcat10 on daedalus » 2024-02-25 15:15:10

> the tomcat start script is very complex

No, it's not. It's about 260 lines long, and most of that is boilerplate.

//sources.debian.org/src/orphan-sysvinit-scripts/0.16/scripts/tomcat9/

The difference between running Tomcat 9 and Tomcat 10 is that some previously optional stuff might no longer be optional:

//tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-9.0-doc/setup.html
//tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-10.1-doc/setup.html

That aside, adapting the script may be as simple as search-replace "tomcat9" with "tomcat10".

#25 Documentation » [SOLVED] How to assign apt priority to cdrom repository. » 2024-02-23 15:49:40

boughtonp
Replies: 0

There's plenty of results online on how to change priority of a local repository, but my searches turned up nothing for how to do it regarding packages on a "cdrom" (actually a DVD ISO).

In the end it was relatively simple: identify the origin by checking the policy output, e.g: apt-cache policy | egrep -C1 'origin|cdrom'

# apt-cache policy | egrep -C1 'origin|cdrom'
...
 500 cdrom://[Devuan GNU/Linux 4.0 chimaera amd64 - desktop 20211012] chimaera/main amd64 Packages
     release c=main,b=amd64
     origin Devuan GNU/Linux 4.0 chimaera amd64 - desktop 20211012
...

Then create a file in /etc/apt/preferences.d directory (or edit /etc/apt/preferences file), such as:

Explanation: cdrom
Package: *
Pin: origin "Devuan GNU/Linux 4.0 chimaera amd64 - desktop 20211012"
Pin-Priority: 600

The double quotes are optional, but it must be double or nothing (single quotes do not work).
The Explanation line is a comment, so can contain a brief description of what/why.

See man apt_preferences for filename rules, then jump to "How APT Interprets Priorities" for an explanation of priority numbers.

Note that there's a difference between the origin of a repository, and a package's "Origin" value; (the latter would use Pin: release o=Debian or Pin: release o=Devuan).

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