2800 open issues

bai4Iej2need · 2026-10-16 18:00:08

as you can see here https://youtu.be/-uZw5M8dG_o?t=214

If you have no problems, you make yourself one or 2800.

tux_99 · 2026-10-16 20:18:28

A presentation related to Systemd by Luca Boccassi a Microsoft employee and Systemd developer (and Debian Dev! https://nm.debian.org/person/bluca/ )...
says it all really, Linux, including Debian, has been completely subverted by MS, IBM and other big-tech corporations.

Last edited by tux_99 (2026-10-16 20:21:31)

blackhole · 2026-10-17 09:31:14

This has been the case for well over a decade. The sellouts at the Debian project, Linux Foundation, gnome project, Canonical et al paved the way for this, as did the legions of fuck heads who called it "conspiracy theory" and trolled any individual opposed to the new corporate backed "open source" ethos...

Well here we are...

Last edited by blackhole (2026-10-17 09:32:01)

bai4Iej2need · 2026-10-17 09:56:15

time to detach (from debian) ?

A Text which has grown over the past three years:
I was looking at the debian bug which is linked in the footer of my postings.
I was surprised, that this bug was created by myself .
And I was surprised how deep I dug into the details of systemd at that time.
Only to conclude that upstream was not able to deliver a sound solution.

After 5 years with $WIN, 6 years with SuSE (1997 - 2003) and 17 Years with debian I am now already 5 years with devuan. beowulf / chimaera / daedalus

Thanks for the distribution.

from here : https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/27/ … post_open/
citation:

Another straw burdening the Open Source camel, Perens writes, "is that Open Source has completely failed to serve the common person. For the most part, if they use us at all they do so through a proprietary software company's systems, like Apple iOS or Google Android, both of which use Open Source for infrastructure but the apps are mostly proprietary. The common person doesn't know about Open Source, they don't know about the freedoms we promote which are increasingly in their interest. Indeed, Open Source is used today to surveil and even oppress them."

from here : https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=7529

The barrier to entry for packaging in debian is just too high, from too much bureaucracy to very high quality requirements. Yes, high quality is a problem here. Especially since there's no place like an AUR to allow people to be bad until they gain experience and stop being bad. While debian maintainers are typically overworked while the docs tell you immediately don't bother people with questions, just rtfm. And there's a heavy bureaucratic procedure to get admitted. The whole thing is very intimidating to interested future maintainers.

Yes I feel the same. It has kept me from touching / modifying / creating deb packages, also that there is a need to do that. But I never learned to do (re)packaging in 33 years of using OSS.
And I never found someone, who was able or willing to teach the art of packaging. (Act : Hey I found someone !)
Yes, there are manuals.
Yes there is www.linuxhotel.de, where I bought courses for c-programming and debian administration. I could do that because I was an independent consultant. Tax Payer took its share.

Devuan is like a ship pulled by another much bigger one called debian. Still moving ahead.
But the rope is at 80 degrees to port and the rudder is at 80 degrees to starbord to cope with the forces.
The forces are to become bigger. At a point the ship will turn over. Then the project is lost.
Then I am sorry for the work done and for the users which search again their future distribution.
Or someone or you just cut the rope.

At a not too distant time devuan must shape its profile as an independent distribution with new properties and new features not based on debian. May be accept repackaging input from other distributions. could amprolla do this ?
May be this attracts younger developers?

What I imagine :
devulean : a debian derived lean veteran unix administrator distro, having deleted all the crapware.

So much for now

Last edited by bai4Iej2need (2026-10-22 06:54:57)

kaiyel · 2026-10-17 23:21:18

And for comparison ... SysVinit has 0 open issues : https://codeberg.org/thejessesmith/sysvinit/issues

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

--K

coder-hase · 2026-10-21 19:01:53

@blackhole: I would add RedHat to the list (why Canonical?) because there it all began. And I'm still impressed how well they hide in plain sight. I mean, check out who is behind the currrent developments in userland.

@kaiyel: You are comparing apples to 700 kg pumkins.

coder-hase · 2026-10-21 19:18:22

@bai4Iej2need: Interesting post. I agree with

The barrier to entry for packaging in debian is just too high, from too much bureaucracy to very high quality requirements.

but it's not only Debian. Every other large project has that too and it's understandable: The people behind the projects have created quality stuff and they want to keep it. They don't want any (no type ahead) HI-slop. What I see as the real problem is that they have no easy onboarding. Perhaps some helpful persone where you can submit bugs and they assist you in making patches.

Detaching from Debian? I think this question will become more important in the future as more projects use stuff from systemd. The mainstream Linux will by even more systemd than it is today. The current userland is lost to systemd / RedHat - but we will eventually see Linux on the desktop.

blackhole · 2026-10-22 07:31:55

@coder-hase: Canonical is a Microsoft partner.

coder-hase · 2026-10-22 16:00:30

Ok, but what? That's your argument, blackhole? Come on that's weak. (I'm writing this from a Win 11 laptop) A better would have been that they are enforcing (buuh!) their proprietary (double buuh!) app image format (not enough buuhs available) on the community.

No, really, Canonical tried to give some impulses in the early 2010's (anyone remembering that they were sending installation CDs for free; that the had a netbook remix for the then popular devices or upstart?) - but (parts of) the community buuh'd them out of the room. So they turned away to doing business in the cloud (this is were they are big) and doing stuff with MIcrosoft. Why not? Ok, they could have left that to RedHat too. I think (but I don't know) that they have Debian devs on their payroll, so what?

Personally I think it's time to acknowledge that Linux is lost to the big corps but I still do not have Canonical on that list. Just wait, what RedHat is going to do. They already mentioned that they are going to an image-desktop. I also read that they think about an OS variant for AI (including agentic? but I don't remember) use. And the Debian folks will do what they ever did since they took systemd: repackage. Yes, I think that's the future.

The question is, what will small communities which don't like this approach do about that? I guess nothing because the saying "If it's not broken, don't fix it." But the part of the truth is that if you don't "fix" software while it's working it's very likley that something or someone else will break it for you. (Anyone thinking of systemd now? Or appimages?)

blackhole · 2026-10-22 16:59:51

You asked "why canonical?".

The reason I listed them among the sell outs is because that's what he did on multiple occasions. It's also clear that Debian's move to systrmd was steered and influenced by Canonical people. As soon as the GR result was known, they wasted no time in firing the upstart developer and switching Ubuntu to systemd.

Red Hat were an enterprise solutions provider even long before the IBM buy out and the main driving force behind systemd. So I don't see the logic in listing them with the others. A bit like expecting Satan to put out the fires.

I have no idea why the OS of your laptop is relevant to this thread?

I have not heard of Canonical's "proprietary" appimage format.

As far as I know Canonical developed snap (I have never used). That has a proprietary backend I believe (not the first time theyve pulled this kind of thing).

Last edited by blackhole (2026-10-22 17:11:22)

coder-hase · 2026-10-22 20:08:30

Hmm, ok. It's the first time that I hear that Canonical gamed the GR. It that's true it is an interesting detail of modern computer history. Do you have links discussing this aspect?

Yes, it's true that they stopped upstart. The statement was that they simply go with Debian. We can speculate but perhaps it was the community stance of (you named it)

a proprietary backend I believe (not the first time theyve pulled this kind of thing)

And no, upstart was not very welcomed at the community, because "don't fix ...", you know.

And of course, when I say that Canonical has their own appimage I really mean snap. Ok, it's a container technology. Ant proprietary!!!

Regarding RedHat I have question. Do you mean this?

Red Hat were an enterprise solutions provider ~~even long before the IBM buy out~~ and the main driving force behind systemd.

I ask because it was RedHat giving systemd the free ride.

The other things with RedHat are

They have the monopoly on Linux based engineering computer, well because when you want support for 3rd party software they accept RedHat and RedHat. Perhaps also RedHat . This is why they can take license fees when you use their stuff in the company.
They have gone rogue (but legally correct) with the open source licensing. (Just to mention it here: Evil Canonical still gives 5 years support for any device (business or private) plus you can subscribe up to 5 (?) company devices for free in their long term support program. This is uber evil!)
One of the driving forces behind image based Linux is ... - Make an educated guess. So, yes they have an active role in how Linux looks today and tomorrow

(If I would have thought that this would ever be of any interest I would have collected links to that. I would have to search.) I found this one regarding image based stuff:

https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/firefox- … -means-you:

Firefox and Thunderbird are the first 2 applications making this transition, but they won't be the last. We're building the infrastructure and the tooling to make Flatpak delivery the standard for RHEL desktop applications.

So, yes there are valid reasons why IBM paid 8 bill. USD for RedHat. I think that was a cheap one.

Additionally, you might want to take a look at the impressive list of RedHat contributions: https://www.redhat.com/en/about/open-so … oper-tools and ask yourself "Who is controlling Linux userland?" So, what I mean, they simply are organised to make the Linux desktop for the next decade and they are going for it. And don't get me wrong, there nothing bad or evil about their goal. It's just what they are doing, their business. I really don't know who is the nice guy among the Linux distributors but RedHat would really not be on the top of the list.

golinux · 2026-10-22 21:11:43

Grasshopper . . . you have much history to digest . . . and you will find all of it on Devuan's channels. Have fun!!

blackhole · Yesterday 08:28:44

@coder-hase: This is not a simple "which is worse - Red Hat or Canonical, pick a side" discussion.

Canonical didn't exactly "game the GR".

As a large number of their employees were also involved in Debian at the time, along with other interested individuals on the corporate payroll, then you don't need to put much mental effort into predicting where that's going. Despite the GR result, Debian would have gone down the systemd route anyway. Subsequent events made that all too clear. The whole process was simply constructed at the time to ensure that the end result was a vote for systemd. You don't need to take my word for it, there are historic threads on FDN covering this and numerous articles elsewhere. This is partially why we are now here, posting on a Devuan forum.

And now Canonical is in bed with Microsoft, who also employ the main systemd developer / project leader. Microsoft/Canonical are also busy rewriting GNU coreutils in rust... under permissive licensing of course.

You can even install the .NET, MS C# encumbered, shitware in your Ubuntu:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotne … x-snap-sdk

The point is that the IBM / Red Hat connection was once unthinkable. It's not the only puppet / puppeteer scenario. The Linux Foundation should illustrate this all too clearly.

bai4Iej2need · Yesterday 10:00:33

#6 to #13 : nice excursion on history and why ... , but the message is :

keep the ship afloat ! what can small units do ?

BIG CORP wants a single solution for their containers and VMs, which is not what OLD HARDWARE needs. see here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnocTSYgurc

coder-hase · Today 08:18:01

@bai4Iej2need: You are completely right. And thank you for posting the link. I'm just watching it and my favourite slide is shown at around 25:00. Spoiler alert "I just don't need ANY of this." Regarding the ship, we will immediately discuss which ship and where will it sail (or is it a steamboat?).

Babarosa · Today 08:51:57

In my opinion, it could be beneficial for Devuan to break away from Debian—to truly let go of systemd and other such components—and follow a path similar to that of Haiku OS.

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2026-10-16 18:00:08

2800 open issues

#2 2026-10-16 20:18:28

Re: 2800 open issues

#3 2026-10-17 09:31:14

Re: 2800 open issues

#4 2026-10-17 09:56:15

Re: 2800 open issues

#5 2026-10-17 23:21:18

Re: 2800 open issues

#6 2026-10-21 19:01:53

Re: 2800 open issues

#7 2026-10-21 19:18:22

Re: 2800 open issues

#8 2026-10-22 07:31:55

Re: 2800 open issues

#9 2026-10-22 16:00:30

Re: 2800 open issues

#10 2026-10-22 16:59:51

Re: 2800 open issues

#11 2026-10-22 20:08:30

Re: 2800 open issues

#12 2026-10-22 21:11:43

Re: 2800 open issues

#13 Yesterday 08:28:44

Re: 2800 open issues

#14 Yesterday 10:00:33

Re: 2800 open issues

#15 Today 08:18:01

Re: 2800 open issues

#16 Today 08:51:57

Re: 2800 open issues

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