[SOLVED] No audio on Excalibur through pipewire on KDE wayland

zapper · Yesterday 02:20:28

@golinux two things... should I watch this conversation with popcorn?

And also, if you think my nonsense was painfully stupid, look up qanon and pizzagate.

golinux · Yesterday 02:21:26

We have a weekly jitsi meet and you are welcome to join us. Also feel free to talk to us on our IRC channels where the devs hang out. The forum is more for user assistance than development issues.

golinux · Yesterday 02:22:28

zapper . . . do you ever have anything useful to say?

zapper · Yesterday 02:26:15

@golinux Not sure, just that this whole thread has been derailed pretty well.

I am almost jealous I didn't derail it this bad

I am not a programmer either btw. I know as much on how to code as you do. just my two cents.

steve_v · Yesterday 02:44:50

So, IOW "There is no formal procedure to become a Devuan contributor."

Why do I even bother. Guess I'll go see if #devuan-dev is still a whole bunch of resounding silence.

zapper . . . do you ever have anything useful to say?

Good to know I'm not the only one who has noticed.

derailed

The answer(s) to the original question and comments on the situation in general have been covered ad-nauseam in another thread, what else is there to do?

Last edited by steve_v (Yesterday 02:50:38)

golinux · Yesterday 04:09:41

So, IOW "There is no formal procedure to become a Devuan contributor."

Perhaps that task has been waiting for YOU to suggest it, set it up and keep track of all its moving parts.

Also, be aware that there are several irc channels that deal with different aspects of devuan's development.

steve_v · Yesterday 05:13:20

Perhaps that task has been waiting for YOU to suggest it, set it up and keep track of all its moving parts.

Keep repeating the same bullshit Go, maybe it will come true. Or just go back to your CSS and conferences.
The dev channel is utterly dead, forum questions get canned responses, nothing ever changes. I'm done here.
This right here is why you have no new devs. If you can't figure that out, you have my sympathy... But not my motivation or any of my time. I'll spend those on a distro where somebody gives a fuck.

different aspects of devuan's development

How many aspects can *crickets* and that one dude giving up because *crickets* have?

Last edited by steve_v (Yesterday 05:23:31)

radiatedradio · Yesterday 15:01:01

I wrote the openRC init script, if you want to use it, replace "radio" with your own username, or if anyone works on maintaining stuff can figure out some solution to automatically fill in the user field, or maybe if I have some free time outside work, I'll make some kind of script that gets your users name and replaces it.

@steve_v

Indeed. While it is likely a dead horse, I'll flog it some more here: Devuan, as a supposed leader in systemd-free distros... Does precious little leading.
Where real work is needed to get things working without systemd, solutions are lifted from Gentoo (eudev, elogind, opentmpfiles etc.). Everything else is just banning packages rather than fixing them, or shipping broken setups like we see here with wayland and pipewire.
I have asked repeatedly what Devuan's direction and preferred solution for user-units is, and all I get is a bunch of "nothing, wait for Debian to fix it" wilful inaction.

I've been on and off using devuan for ~3 years. My original post came off as uneducated, but that's because I never even used pipewire before, or wayland too much. If possible at least some kind of warning when installing any wayland/pipewire based desktop should come up, that you might run into issues, or that you should check the forum.

heres the init script, don't just copy it in, change the user name. It works fine for me with KDE, probably would work with any other desktop. It's quite makeshift, I've written very few init scripts before, but it gets the job done. The killing processes part could be removed, I just went off of the one I found here.

#!/sbin/openrc-run

name="pipewire"
description="pipewire"
command_user="radio"

depend() {
    after bootmisc
}

start() {
    ebegin "Starting Pipewire"
    
# kill 
    pkill -u "radio" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    pkill -u "radio" -fx /usr/bin/wireplumber 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    pkill -u "radio" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    
    # start 
    start-stop-daemon --start --background --make-pidfile --pidfile /var/run/pipewire.pid \
        --user radio --exec /usr/bin/pipewire
    
    # wait
    local timeout=10
    while [ $timeout -gt 0 ] && [ "$(pgrep -u radio -f /usr/bin/pipewire)" = "" ]; do
        sleep 1
        timeout=$((timeout - 1))
    done
    
    if [ "$(pgrep -u radio -f /usr/bin/pipewire)" = "" ]; then
        eend 1 "no workie"
        return 1
    fi
    
    # wireplumber
    start-stop-daemon --start --background --make-pidfile --pidfile /var/run/wireplumber.pid \
        --user radio --exec /usr/bin/wireplumber
    
    # pulse
    start-stop-daemon --start --background --make-pidfile --pidfile /var/run/pipewire-pulse.pid \
        --user radio --exec /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse
    
    eend 0
}

stop() {
    ebegin "Stopping Pipewire"
    
    start-stop-daemon --stop --pidfile /var/run/pipewire-pulse.pid
    start-stop-daemon --stop --pidfile /var/run/wireplumber.pid
    start-stop-daemon --stop --pidfile /var/run/pipewire.pid
    
    pkill -u "radio" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    pkill -u "radio" -fx /usr/bin/wireplumber 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    pkill -u "radio" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    
    rm -f /var/run/pipewire.pid /var/run/wireplumber.pid /var/run/pipewire-pulse.pid
    
    eend 0
}

restart() {
    stop
    sleep 1
    start
}

Last edited by radiatedradio (Yesterday 15:03:39)

radiatedradio · Yesterday 15:10:59

Also it's amazing how fast this thread turned into not a discussion about pipewire and things like that, just bickering between forum members, never expected this when I just wanted to ask a question on here.

radiatedradio · Yesterday 16:42:01

I wrote an autoinstall script for it, because I got bored. Run as the user you're starting your desktop with, supports both doas and sudo for priv escalation. It's extremely janky, but it works:

if command -v sudo &> /dev/null; then
    export SUDO_OR_DOAS="sudo"
elif command -v doas &> /dev/null; then
    export SUDO_OR_DOAS="doas"
fi

mkdir ~/pipewire
cd ~/pipewire

tee ~/pipewire/pipewire << 'EOF'
#!/sbin/openrc-run

name="pipewire"
description="pipewire"
command_user="USER"

depend() {
    after bootmisc
}

start() {
    ebegin "Starting Pipewire"
    
    # start 
    start-stop-daemon --start --background --make-pidfile --pidfile /var/run/pipewire.pid \
        --user USER --exec /usr/bin/pipewire
    
    # wait
    local timeout=10
    while [ $timeout -gt 0 ] && [ "$(pgrep -u USER -f /usr/bin/pipewire)" = "" ]; do
        sleep 1
        timeout=$((timeout - 1))
    done
    
    if [ "$(pgrep -u USER -f /usr/bin/pipewire)" = "" ]; then
        eend 1 "no workie"
        return 1
    fi
    
    # wireplumber
    start-stop-daemon --start --background --make-pidfile --pidfile /var/run/wireplumber.pid \
        --user USER --exec /usr/bin/wireplumber
    
    # pulse
    start-stop-daemon --start --background --make-pidfile --pidfile /var/run/pipewire-pulse.pid \
        --user USER --exec /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse
    
    eend 0
}

stop() {
    ebegin "Stopping Pipewire"
    
    start-stop-daemon --stop --pidfile /var/run/pipewire-pulse.pid
    start-stop-daemon --stop --pidfile /var/run/wireplumber.pid
    start-stop-daemon --stop --pidfile /var/run/pipewire.pid
    
    pkill -u "USER" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    pkill -u "USER" -fx /usr/bin/wireplumber 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    pkill -u "USER" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire 1>/dev/null 2>&1
    
    rm -f /var/run/pipewire.pid /var/run/wireplumber.pid /var/run/pipewire-pulse.pid
    
    eend 0
}

restart() {
    stop
    sleep 1
    start
}
EOF
\
sed -i "s/USER/$USER/g" ~/pipewire/pipewire &&
$SUDO_OR_DOAS mv ~/pipewire/pipewire /etc/init.d/pipewire &&
$SUDO_OR_DOAS chown root:root /etc/init.d/pipewire &&
$SUDO_OR_DOAS chmod 755 /etc/init.d/pipewire &&
$SUDO_OR_DOAS rc-update add pipewire &&
$SUDO_OR_DOAS rc-service pipewire start

rbit · Yesterday 19:19:05

I wrote the openRC init script, if you want to use it, replace "radio" with your own username, or if anyone works on maintaining stuff can figure out some solution to automatically fill in the user field, or maybe if I have some free time outside work, I'll make some kind of script that gets your users name and replaces it.

There are a few ways to do this. Replace command_user="radio" with command_user="$USER" is one way (probably the way that makes the most sense). Another option is command_user="$(whoami)". If you want a non-sensical solution, use command_user="$(env | grep ^USER= | cut -c 6-)" (but that is a very strange way to get the USER).

radiatedradio · Yesterday 19:21:42

@rbit if you check my last post, my auto install script fixes that.

rbit · Yesterday 19:23:35

Yeah, I see, the sed command makes it work :-) that's what I get for posting before carefully reading to the end

zapper · Yesterday 20:08:30

@steve_v OOF I didn't expect you to swear, and the F-word at that...

Dear lord... you are super pissed.

As for you going elsewhere, only gotta say, later then, if ever...

steve_v · Today 00:37:18

radiatedradio wrote:

heres the init script, don't just copy it in, change the user name. It works fine for me with KDE, probably would work with any other desktop.

That'll work, but it probably won't play nice with a multi-user/multi-seat system.

The killing processes part could be removed, I just went off of the one I found here.

Killing processes is a dirty hack to kill lingering pipewire processes after a user logs out - which will tie up the sound devices so that they will have no audio if they log in again. Dirty, because it doesn't solve the root problem of making sure pipewire terminates when the launching user logs out (of possibly multiple sessions etc.).

That's one of the things we need real user-services for, this kind of shell-hackery is all well-and-good for a single-user box, but unix/linux is and always has been multi-user. Getting that to work properly means tying the pipewire daemons to the login seat lifecycle somehow, or hacking pipewire to run as a system-wide service (which it absolutely wasn't designed for).

zapper wrote:

As for you going elsewhere, only gotta say, later then, if ever.

I already am "elsewhere". I have exactly one headless box still running Devuan, and if the next upgrade is as much of a disaster as I expect it will be, that one will move to Gentoo as well.

As for being pissed... I'm being told to "go code" by a self-important bureaucrat who can't code, and directed to dead channels to engage with absent devs in non-existent onboarding processes.
And they wonder why anyone who might contribute gives up and goes elsewhere. That airfare to amsterdam go is so proud of? That could have paid someone to start sorting out this mess.

Case in point, let's recap 24 hours of the devuan-dev channel:

Xenguy: LeePen, I can't seem to get any response except crickets around here...
Xenguy: So, you push the keyring.html Live when you want, if and when you want, please. I'm done with it.
Xenguy: .oO( Like herding cats ... )
golinux: Just updated the pad regarding some upcoming changes. Please have a look and comment before end of day Tuesday

Let's see... No development, one guy giving up because there's nobody around, and golinux dropping some bureaucratic chaff nobody cares about.
And this is right on a major release window. Trixie just dropped, where is everyone?

Why bother? Even the most stalwart rats must be making for the mooring lines by now, with all possible haste. Might as well join them, no?

Last edited by steve_v (Today 00:57:42)

greenjeans · Today 00:59:43

^^ Not me bro, i'm hanging in there, and I for one appreciate your input. I'm trying man...

But I also have big love for golinux, she has paid her dues many times more over than I have, I would hope you two can come to a place of understanding.

The flow of info does seem a bit sparse here of late, but likely that's due to so many changes in this new version, folks have lives outside of Linux and need to make a living still, and a new version of Debian adds a lot more to the load. And not for nothing but from what i've seen Trixie is so far something of a cluster**** that's gonna take time to fix.

Hate to lose you my friend, ignore zapper, his trolling isn't even highbrow enough to elicit a giggle.

To the OP: Sorry bro, glad you got it worked out, please don't take this exchange as indicative of what to expect here, things are just especially tense as there's a lot going on in the Linux world lately. Devuan is a solid alternative still as it has been for 10 years, but sometimes it does take a bit more work as it always does when you're working outside the mainstream.

steve_v · Today 01:29:27

greenjeans wrote:

Not me bro, i'm hanging in there, and I for one appreciate your input. I'm trying man...

You are, and *respect*.

golinux... I would hope you two can come to a place of understanding.

At this point, I doubt it. Maybe when I see go drop some technical solutions to a forum question or code fixes to a broken package, rather than just shouting at other people to do it.
Responding to every problem with "YOU go fix it then", and coming from a position of authority at that... It gets real old, real fast. It sure doesn't achieve anything, or motivate anyone.

The flow of info does seem a bit sparse here of late, but likely that's due to so many changes in this new version, folks have lives outside of Linux and need to make a living still, and a new version of Debian adds a lot more to the load.

The wayland/pipewire thing has been coming down the line for years, we've had plenty of time. Every other non-systemd distro has something in place so it at least *mostly* works, and documentation for issues end-users might encounter. With Devuan we don't even have a hint of intent or direction, let alone a shipped solution.

Last edited by steve_v (Today 01:30:27)

golinux · Today 02:07:24

Right back at you, greenjeans . . .

One thing I am regretting at this moment is that it is unlikely that I will be around to see how my "detractor" will deal with the latest technologies when he is 83! LOL!!! But then, it's doubtful the world will even be habitable by then. Not that my generation didn't try to turn things around and I have personally spent decades engaged in that effort. Despite the successes, things have only gotten exponentially worse. Now our species is rapidly devolving so probably best that Mother Nature will take care of the "human problem" before too long . . .

steve_v · Today 03:49:59

Ahh yes, the old "everything new is bad, we're all doomed, my generation knew better, damn kids get off my lawn, why don't we all just die" line. All very helpful and productive I'm sure.

how my "detractor" will deal with the latest technologies

More productively (but probably not diplomatically), if this thread is anything to go by.
If I count correctly, ~~four~~ five, if I'm being generous users have piped up with technical support for this technical question, and through their efforts the problem is now solved. You are not one of them, nor have you offered any relevant information or technical assistance. Same goes for zapper.

Last edited by steve_v (Today 03:52:01)

golinux · Today 04:17:06

You really are some sort of sub-human mutation. It is people and who they are that matter not code. Devuan has always been about love of each other and Devuan. It was palpable and "shimmering" at the conference. Or perhaps you are a bot . . . which would explain a lot because you certainly are a piss poor human.

steve_v · Today 04:25:49

Cool, I'm sure all the things will just magically fix themselves, if only we could all have a nice kumbaya session and feel the "shimmering" energy.

Devuan is code, literally. When somebody installs an operating system, they're installing code, not love and happy thoughts. When they turn on a computer, it's electrons and code that make it do something useful, not spiritual feels.
You can wish it were otherwise all you like, but reality is what it is regardless.

You claim Devuan needs more developers... Who by job-definition develop code. Then (likely to justify your own lack of technical input) you claim that code doesn't actually matter and it's all about love.
Which is it?
If code doesn't matter, Devuan should do fine with no developers at all, right? We just hold hands, sing a song, and a working release appears out of thin-air.

Last edited by steve_v (Today 04:35:45)

ralph.ronnquist · Today 05:27:35

@steve_v: you still here? And you still contribute to the discourse?
You are too kind.

steve_v · Today 05:37:55

discourse?

Oh, there's still discourse to be had is there? My mistake, I thought this thread had run it's course and was just golinux slinging personal insults and mumbling into their soup about uppity youths, love and "shimmering" (whatever that is supposed to mean) at this point.

What did you have in mind?

Last edited by steve_v (Today 05:39:47)

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Re: [SOLVED] No audio on Excalibur through pipewire on KDE wayland

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