Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

mweishaar · 2025-07-20 13:22:52

With Debian announcing the release date of Trixie on Aug 9, I know Excalibur will be coming.

My daily driver desktop system running Daedalus/xfce/sysvinit was fresh installed with ASCII, and has been dist-upgraded ever since with minimal issues. I am expecting the same for this one, but am also wondering if it is time to do a fresh install again.

It could be that I have customized or changed (or not changed) enough things that it might be annoying to start fresh. e.g. I am still running slim. Just trying to think of and note all of the things I would need to consider installing / not installing / backing up / noting is a bit daunting. I've been running Linux since '98 so I remember the days when reinstalling was the only real option.

The easy answer is just to do a dist-upgrade again and carry on, but figured I might as well ask what others think.

Last edited by mweishaar (2025-07-20 13:23:41)

Camtaf · 2025-07-20 14:02:17

Back up your personal data, (as usual), make notes of any config changes you made, then do a dist upgrade.

If it doesn't work out, install afresh.

RedGreen925 · 2025-07-20 16:41:38

make notes of any config changes you made

Those are best made when doing them the likely-hood of remembering later are slim to none. I know that is true for me so every change made goes in my install notes file I always make.

fsmithred · 2025-07-20 18:33:22

To get a list of config files that have been changed from the default:

debsums -ca

pcalvert · 2025-07-20 19:26:53

I like to do clean installs. It's nice to start over with a "clean slate". I consider reinstalling as part of what one might call "computer hygiene". If, by chance, I managed to pick up a rootkit or other form of malware, reinstalling should help me get rid of it. I also use dd to (very carefully) wipe the MBR in case something nasty is hiding in there.

Reinstalling is definitely a pain, but I have an idea for a system that should make it much less painful. I will install Devuan in a VM and configure it exactly the way I want it. Then I will use refractasnapshot to create a live DVD ISO file that can then be used to install the new version of Devuan.

This VM will never to be used to do anything other than create customized Devuan ISO files. And every time a new major version of Devuan is released, the VM will be dist-upgraded and used to create a new installation ISO file.

Last edited by pcalvert (2025-07-20 19:43:02)

delgado · 2025-07-20 20:46:34

From my point of view, dist-upgrade just works.

@fsmithred: thanks for sharing.

Devarch · 2025-07-20 22:36:57

@pcalvert, interesting. Does this ISO support encrypted install?

pcalvert · 2025-07-21 00:43:28

Devarch wrote:

@pcalvert, interesting. Does this ISO support encrypted install?

That's a good question. I don't know because I've never done an encrypted install. However, @fsmithred should be able to tell you whether refractainstaller has that capability.

fsmithred · 2025-07-21 01:39:17

Yes refractainstaller can do encrypted installs. You can have encrypted root and /home partitions, with or without a separate /boot partition. (without it gives you full disk encryption). No LVM or RAID (unless you do some of that manually)

pcalvert · 2025-07-21 03:36:23

@fsmithred, when one uses refractainstaller to create an encrypted partition, can the OS still see which filesystem is on the partition without decrypting it?

ks · 2025-07-21 08:15:47

I didn't know about debsums. Installed and ran it just now. Of the 88 changes
I made to my system here it discovered eleven.

How do I know what changes I made? Two devuan versions ago (don't remember
their release names, I find numbers easier to put in chronological order) I started
to add two directories in /root: /root/files and /root/config. In "files" I keep
a copy of modified config files or locally installed files, and in "config" I
collect symlinks to all the changed configs or added files in their correct
locations.

With the current release (daedalus) I also started to sort files in /root/files
by using numeric prefixes, i.e. 00_addFirmware.txt, 01_mount_options.conf,
10_login.defs ... 99_cups.airprint.laserPrinter.service - so on a new system
I make changes in an order that makes sense (at least to me).

I have a script to installcfg.rc to copy from /root/files to wherever the
corresponding symlink in /root/config points to. Makes setting up a fresh
install a real breeze.

Obviously, I also have a file on each box telling me what non standard progs
have been installed, and which services have been added or removed.

Over time I have added additional scripts to keep everything pristine. At the
beginning I didn't always cause changes to system files to added to this combo.
So I added a script checking config files that were newer than /etc/1stInstall
(I touch that empty file when I log in as root for the very first time on a
freshly installed system). I later changed that to copy the modded files right
into /root/files (and sending me a mail about it).

I now have these tools on desktops, schlepptops and servers and can setup any
new type of box without worrying if everything is the way it should be once
it's put into service.

BTW: Having started in the mid 90ies with linux I have never done upgrades to
a new release, always did fresh installs and adapted them to local
requirements. It really make for a lot of decluttering, especially for people
that can't house keep or are hoarders.

ks

fsmithred · 2025-07-21 09:05:23

@fsmithred, when one uses refractainstaller to create an encrypted partition, can the OS still see which filesystem is on the partition without decrypting it?

I don't think I understand the question. If you have another linux installed on the system, it won't be able to see the filesystem on the encrypted partition until it's decrypted. That also means that os-prober won't be able to add the encrypted install to the boot menu of the other linux. Also, if you reboot the live system after finishing the install, the live system won't be able to see what's in the encrypted partition until it's decrypted.

If that's not the right answer, try the question again.

Camtaf · 2025-07-21 09:23:57

Another thing, I have multiple computers, & have learned to set up one how I want, then take a snapshot & use that to install to other computers.

greenjeans · 2025-07-21 14:24:43

^^^Exactly what I do. Squashing is my drug and fsmithred is my pharmacist.

I'll be rolling over all my stuff I think, too much work to build a freshie with all the custom settings and crap I have.

Devarch · 2025-07-21 17:16:32

@fsmithred thanks

but it seems refractainstaller is not yet ready for excalibur

greenjeans · 2025-07-21 18:02:46

^^ Can't speak to the encryption functions as I never use them, nor uefi, but i've been using it for months now on Devuan excalibur isos.

pcalvert · 2025-07-21 18:08:26

fsmithred wrote:

I don't think I understand the question. If you have another linux installed on the system, it won't be able to see the filesystem on the encrypted partition until it's decrypted.

I want to use tune2fs to tune an encrypted ext4 home partition that was created by refractainstaller. Can I decrypt the partition without mounting it? If so, how would I do that?

Devarch · 2025-07-21 18:57:21

I want to use tune2fs to tune an encrypted ext4 home partition that was created by refractainstaller. Can I decrypt the partition without mounting it? If so, how would I do that?

cryptsetup open /dev/nvme0n... and you can tune2fs your ext4, or what do you mean?

fsmithred · 2025-07-21 19:23:15

but it seems refractainstaller is not yet ready for excalibur

@Devarch: I've been using it in excalibur. What problem are you having? (maybe it should be in another thread).

Devarch · 2025-07-21 21:24:24

@fsmithred, I mean that I've tried 'devuan_excalibur_6.0-preview-2025-05-24_1235_amd64_desktop-live.iso', and refractainstaller was unhelpful, even after installing refracta on the live system. Perhaps refractainstaller works with an already-installed Excalibur, but I haven't tested it. However, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work with the original ISO.

fsmithred · 2025-07-21 22:02:41

devuan_excalibur_6.0-preview-2025-05-24_1235_amd64_desktop-live.iso is missing the gui versions of refractainstaller and refractasnapshot. They'll be in the next build. (package names are refractainstaller-gui and refractasnapshot-gui)

Run

sudo refractainstaller

in a terminal to run the cli installer.

mweishaar · 2025-07-24 15:49:15

BTW: Having started in the mid 90ies with linux I have never done upgrades to
a new release, always did fresh installs and adapted them to local
requirements. It really make for a lot of decluttering, especially for people
that can't house keep or are hoarders.

I started around the same time too (redhat 5.1) and I tried to do an upgrade once around that time and it didn't go well at all. Of course, times have changed and dist-upgrades have been smooth sailing for the most part for the last 10 years. I keep house pretty well, but I don't mind a little cruft as long as things keep working. I do have email archives back to 2002, but it's all in text and only takes up 4.8GB. Still using alpine (fka pine) as my main mail client and it works beautifully.

I appreciate the discussion in this thread, and I'll probably go with the dist-upgrade and do a reinstall if anything goes badly. I do have a nightly rsync of my home folder to another disk, so I'll likely do one more and make some notes before doing the upgrade (and of course reading the release notes).

rolfie · 2025-07-24 16:51:26

I do either one depending on the situation. If there is reason to resize partitioning, or significant changes in my setup like another init system, another desktop, I prefer fresh install. But I have also performed various dist-upgrades since I started to have Debian on my workstation starting with Squeeze.

RedGreen925 · 2025-07-24 21:28:02

I started around the same time too (redhat 5.1) and I tried to do an upgrade once around that time and it didn't go well at all. Of course, times have changed and dist-upgrades have been smooth sailing for the most part for the last 10 years. I keep house pretty well,

I started with 5.2 in June of 1999 just over twenty-six years ago. Win98SE "upgrade" left my SB AWE64 sound card only able to play MIDI files, was in the store to buy new and seen the Redhat there dirt cheap and said what the hell and gave it shot. Installed ran sndconfig and had sound that was the last for windows as a daily driver. No wonder you had problems with upgrading system at that time you were in rpm hell as it was called. Where you had to dance naked in the moonlight chanting the secret formula while sacrificing a chicken or goat to get the damn things to install. What a nightmare that junk was.

The Mandrake based on it I found soon after that at least had sensible install procedures but nothing like the Debian Woody and apt had once I moved to it in 2004 I think it was it came out. Now that has been nothing but a real pleasure in the twenty plus years I have used it. But then again I am sensible with my machines I learned way back then backups, backups and more backups. They save your ass if anything goes wrong to this very day before any major upgrade I run my backup script on my machine to clone it to an external ssd boot that on my duplicate spare machine do the upgrade and see how it goes. I cannot remember the last time I had problems with an upgrade/dist-upgrade.

mirrortokyo · 2025-08-11 14:41:34

I installed Debian in June 2004 on a machine with a Cyrix CPU and 48MiB RAM. The same installation was migrated to new hardware over the years, switched to Devuan, survived /usrmerge and is still running fine on 6.17.0-rc1 kernel after applying the https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/dr … intel.com/ patch.

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2025-07-20 13:22:52

Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#2 2025-07-20 14:02:17

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#3 2025-07-20 16:41:38

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#4 2025-07-20 18:33:22

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#5 2025-07-20 19:26:53

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#6 2025-07-20 20:46:34

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#7 2025-07-20 22:36:57

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#8 2025-07-21 00:43:28

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#9 2025-07-21 01:39:17

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#10 2025-07-21 03:36:23

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#11 2025-07-21 08:15:47

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#12 2025-07-21 09:05:23

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#13 2025-07-21 09:23:57

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#14 2025-07-21 14:24:43

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#15 2025-07-21 17:16:32

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#16 2025-07-21 18:02:46

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#17 2025-07-21 18:08:26

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#18 2025-07-21 18:57:21

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#19 2025-07-21 19:23:15

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#20 2025-07-21 21:24:24

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#21 2025-07-21 22:02:41

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#22 2025-07-24 15:49:15

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#23 2025-07-24 16:51:26

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#24 2025-07-24 21:28:02

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

#25 2025-08-11 14:41:34

Re: Fresh install vs dist-upgrade for next release

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