How are you guys quoting posts?

greenjeans · 2024-08-28 16:25:51

I don't see the option to do so anywhere anymore. Or has my eyesight really gotten that bad?

rolfie · 2024-08-28 17:05:38

greenjeans wrote:

I don't see the option to do so anywhere anymore. Or has my eyesight really gotten that bad?

1.) There is the quote button in the list of available commands above the Reply Window.
2.) Read this post: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6369

nahkhiirmees · 2024-08-28 18:45:10

Have been thinking lately:
20+ years ago there were something called Usenet. I think back in the day the over-quoting was not that big problem as it its now with these web-based message_boards.

Was it just more civilized age or did the style of ordering messages have to do something with that?

Also i considered writing a messageboard software which could order the messages Usenet_style or linearly, just as user chooses.

But i'm much better in starting things than finishing them.
Besides. LAMP-stack is depressing crap. But i'm not yet skilled enough with Flask or RoR either.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2024-08-28 18:47:31)

yeti · 2024-08-29 00:17:31

nahkhiirmees wrote:

Have been thinking lately:
20+ years ago there were something called Usenet.

The original Fediverse still exists.

nahkhiirmees wrote:

I think back in the day the over-quoting was not that big problem as it its now with these web-based message_boards.

You should only quote the parts you are answering to. Generation clickycolour seems to have unlearned that. I hear similar things from plain email. Instead of keeping the messages of a conversation in a folder, some expect the whole message pingpong to be appended to the newest part. Microsoftisms?

Well... at least I'm not overlooking the quote button.

SIGH!

nahkhiirmees · 2024-08-29 15:57:39

Maybe it's not about web-based forums or death of Usenet.
Manners have become nonexistent instead. (Maybe i'm not completely immune to that but anyways.)

Somehow i doubt that yeti was even born when i used Usenet news first time.

But anyways, this lack of proper quoting is not that good either. When messages are ordered only by the time they are added, it can become difficult to deduce if this_message is a reply to that_message or not. Now there is just chaos of non-connected messages.
This is not a messageboard, it is a bad IRC-clone instead.

(And if someone is too lazy to use real quote properly, that someone is propably too lazy to use quote-tags the way moderators intended, also.)

And if someone thinks that in this forum there were too much quoting, you definitely haven't seen the forums i have seen.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2024-08-29 16:02:43)

quickfur · 2024-08-29 17:00:34

Unless storage space was a concern, I don't see why the software couldn't be modified such that only the first n lines of a large quoted block are shown by default, and you have to click on some button to display the rest of it. Then it won't clutter the page, and when you need to you can still dig into the quotation to figure out the context of the discussion. The HTML <details> tag is ideal for this sort of thing (you don't even need JS for it to work).

golinux · 2024-08-29 17:32:43

Back-end or client-side bloat is never OK and full post quoting completely unnecessary. Also I imagine that most folks here don't enable HTML email. I don' t on any of my accounts . . .

quickfur · 2024-08-29 18:09:25

What has this web forum got to do with HTML emails? (I don't use HTML emails either.)

yeti · 2024-08-29 19:12:04

nahkhiirmees wrote:

Somehow i doubt that yeti was even born when i used Usenet news first time.

Sure you are allowed to doubt, but better do not bet on it!
But what does that add to the discussion?

ralph.ronnquist · 2024-08-29 23:54:31

When/if interesting discussions emerge I would be keen to assist with improved platform software.

nahkhiirmees · 2024-08-30 15:48:10

The realistic point of view: when there are quote-tags, there is also abuse of those tags.
So, how about truncating the content between "quote" and "/quote" to maximum_allowed_length?
Should be easy to add even to pre-existing software.

nahkhiirmees · 2024-08-30 15:57:50

Other thing: context.
In topics which have at most 10-20 messages, quoting may not be so necessary/it could be practical to deduce if message #y if a reply to message #x.

But when there are hundreds of messages in a topic, and they are separated in pages, context could be lost.

And that "context loss" made me think about a) slashdot b) some news clients i have used decades ago.
Particularly, that in these examples messages are ordered into a tree-line structure. When using that structure, context is more clear. Not so much need for over-quoting.

E.
Not going to say anything about the content quality of those examples. I think someone will do it for me instead.

Maybe i agree that quoting the whole message is too much. But making quoting complicated may result a bad irc-clone insted of a messageboqard. And some other crap also.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2024-08-30 16:20:30)

golinux · 2024-08-30 16:10:35

Order inevitably slides into chaos and then oblivion. Trying to micromanage just makes things worse. If users here are unable to quote specifically and intelligently that says more about our users than the software guiding them. And a software nanny is an inadequate tool to solve the problem.

nahkhiirmees · 2024-08-30 16:13:29

If everything is as good as nothing, entropy eventually reaches its maximum /etc,what's the point? How about bringing the old quote-button back then?

e.

Even in nihilism, half-measures are bad mmkay?

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2024-08-30 16:21:43)

golinux · 2024-08-30 17:05:29

Because less is preferable to more and perhaps the lack of a knee-jerk button will actually produce more thoughtful responses.

quickfur · 2024-08-30 17:59:58

And that "context loss" made me think about a) slashdot b) some news clients i have used decades ago.
Particularly, that in these examples messages are ordered into a tree-line structure. When using that structure, context is more clear. Not so much need for over-quoting.

Tree-structured threads are not perfect, but are miles better than linear threads. I'm subscribed to several high-volume mailing lists, and if I hadn't used Mutt, which has threading, it would have been completely unmanageable. Threading often alleviates the need to overquote, because it's clear from its position within the tree which post it's replying to. (Try imagining Usenet without threads. The resulting chaos would be several orders of magnitude worse than all the flame wars!)

The ideal structure is a DAG (directed acyclic graph), but it's too complex to be practical, both in terms of presentation, navigation, and usage (nobody is as obsessive as I am in tagging individual posts to respond to within a single reply ), so it's unlikely to work well in practice. Trees are a good compromise between usability and manageability.

quickfur · 2024-08-30 18:01:15

golinux wrote:

perhaps the lack of a knee-jerk button will actually produce more thoughtful responses.

golinux wrote:

a software nanny is an inadequate tool to solve the problem.

Ah, the irony.

ralph.ronnquist · 2024-08-30 21:47:23

To be clear: when/if interesting discussions emerge I would be keen to assist with improved platform software.

golinux · 2024-08-30 22:17:39

@ralph.ronnquist . . . You've been around here long enough to know the odds of that happening . . .

nahkhiirmees · 2024-08-31 09:13:13

Actually i agree with ralph: there is not much interesting discussion here, Should find another forum or quit using web_based_messageboards for anything at all,

nahkhiirmees · 2024-08-31 09:18:59

But still i have to say this again: i consider removing real quote and leaving quote-tags as a half-measure. Half-measures are bad mmkay?
With those quote-tags there is still potential for abuse . I'm nor going to demonstrate what i mean because that's stupid. I leave it to others.

E.

After removing those tags there will be only a retarded version of irc. Good luck finding any interesting discussion then.

Last edited by nahkhiirmees (2024-08-31 09:34:04)

yeti · 2024-08-31 10:02:47

nahkhiirmees wrote:

After removing those tags there will be only a retarded version of irc. Good luck finding any interesting discussion then.

Even in IRC users find ways to quote contents in a readable way, which btw still is possible here.

But sure I'd prefer to use a devuan.* hierarchy via NNTP, if all else fails maybe based on mailing lists gated to NNTP via Gmane?

greenjeans · 2024-08-31 16:44:22

To be clear: when/if interesting discussions emerge I would be keen to assist with improved platform software.

Well now you've piqued my interest Ralph, what would you consider an Interesting topic of discussion?

Shoes, ships, sealing wax? Cabbages and kings?

golinux · 2024-08-31 17:24:15

/me groans . . .

greenjeans · 2024-08-31 19:52:47

0==||=======>

^^Vorpal sword.

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2024-08-28 16:25:51

How are you guys quoting posts?

#2 2024-08-28 17:05:38

Re: How are you guys quoting posts?

#3 2024-08-28 18:45:10

Re: How are you guys quoting posts?

#4 2024-08-29 00:17:31

Re: How are you guys quoting posts?

#5 2024-08-29 15:57:39

Re: How are you guys quoting posts?

#6 2024-08-29 17:00:34

Re: How are you guys quoting posts?

#7 2024-08-29 17:32:43

Re: How are you guys quoting posts?

#8 2024-08-29 18:09:25

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#9 2024-08-29 19:12:04

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#10 2024-08-29 23:54:31

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#11 2024-08-30 15:48:10

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#12 2024-08-30 15:57:50

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#13 2024-08-30 16:10:35

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#14 2024-08-30 16:13:29

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#15 2024-08-30 17:05:29

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#16 2024-08-30 17:59:58

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#17 2024-08-30 18:01:15

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#18 2024-08-30 21:47:23

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#19 2024-08-30 22:17:39

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#20 2024-08-31 09:13:13

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#21 2024-08-31 09:18:59

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#22 2024-08-31 10:02:47

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#23 2024-08-31 16:44:22

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#24 2024-08-31 17:24:15

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#25 2024-08-31 19:52:47

Re: How are you guys quoting posts?

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