Ceres minimal .iso ...

Dev1 · 2017-07-07 14:08:26

Hi !

plz where to find ceres minimal .iso or .iso2USB to download ?

thx in advance !

Last edited by Dev1 (2017-07-07 14:10:07)

golinux · 2017-07-07 14:36:00

AFAIK, that doesn't exist yet (and I doubt that a ceres iso will ever). You could boot the minimal-live iso, upgrade it through ASCII and ceres and then take a snapshot to create you very own ceres iso.

Dev1 · 2017-07-08 15:57:32

Just finished the installation , from jessie to ceres skipin asci , ( i did follow this reference >>> https://talk.devuan.org/t/upgrading-dev … scii/363/2 )
plz someone check this :

# apt update
Hit:1 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ceres InRelease                     
Get:2 http://packages.devuan.org/merged ceres InRelease [130 kB]
Get:3 http://packages.devuan.org/merged ceres/main Sources [7542 kB]
Get:4 http://packages.devuan.org/merged ceres/main amd64 Packages [7585 kB]    
Fetched 15.3 MB in 1min 18s (194 kB/s)                                         
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
137 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
# apt list --upgradable
Listing... Done
apt-listchanges/unstable,unstable 3.13 all [upgradable from: 2.85.13+nmu1]
aptitude/unstable,unstable 0.8.8-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.6.11-1+b1]
aptitude-common/unstable,unstable 0.8.8-1 all [upgradable from: 0.6.11-1]
aspell/unstable,unstable 0.60.7~20110707-3+b2 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.60.7~20110707-1.3]
default-jre/unstable,unstable 2:1.8-59 amd64 [upgradable from: 2:1.7-52]
default-jre-headless/unstable,unstable 2:1.8-59 amd64 [upgradable from: 2:1.7-52]
evince-common/unstable,unstable 3.22.1-3 all [upgradable from: 3.14.1-2+deb8u1]
evince-gtk/unstable,unstable 3.22.1-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.14.1-2+deb8u1]
exfalso/unstable,unstable 3.7.1-2 all [upgradable from: 3.2.2-1]
findutils/unstable,unstable 4.6.0+git+20170606-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 4.4.2-9+b1]
firefox-esr/unstable,unstable 52.2.0esr-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 45.9.0esr-1~deb8u1]
gconf-service/unstable,unstable 3.2.6-4+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.2.6-3]
gconf2/unstable,unstable 3.2.6-4+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.2.6-3]
gconf2-common/unstable,unstable 3.2.6-4 all [upgradable from: 3.2.6-3]
gcr/unstable,unstable 3.20.0-5.1 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.14.0-2]
gdisk/unstable,unstable 1.0.1-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.0-2+devuan0.4]
gimp/unstable,unstable 2.8.20-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.8.14-1+deb8u1]
gimp-data/unstable,unstable 2.8.20-1 all [upgradable from: 2.8.14-1+deb8u1]
gir1.2-gtk-3.0/unstable,unstable 3.22.16-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.14.5-1+deb8u1]
gir1.2-packagekitglib-1.0/unstable,unstable 1.1.5-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.1-2]
gnome-keyring/unstable,unstable 3.20.0-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.14.0-1+b1]
gnupg/unstable,unstable 2.1.18-8 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.4.18-7+deb8u3]
gnupg-agent/unstable,unstable 2.1.18-8 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.0.26-6+deb8u1]
gnupg2/unstable,unstable 2.1.18-8 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.0.26-6+deb8u1]
gparted/unstable,unstable 0.25.0-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.19.0-2]
gstreamer1.0-libav/unstable,unstable 1.12.1-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.4.4-2]
gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly/unstable,unstable 1.12.1-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.4.4-2+deb8u1]
libasound2-plugins/unstable,unstable 1.1.1-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.28-1+b1]
libaspell15/unstable,unstable 0.60.7~20110707-3+b2 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.60.7~20110707-1.3]
libasprintf-dev/unstable,unstable 0.19.8.1-2+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.19.3-2]
libdjvulibre21/unstable,unstable 3.5.27.1-7 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.5.25.4-4+b1]
libevdocument3-4/unstable,unstable 3.22.1-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.14.1-2+deb8u1]
libevview3-3/unstable,unstable 3.22.1-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.14.1-2+deb8u1]
libgconf-2-4/unstable,unstable 3.2.6-4+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.2.6-3]
libgimp2.0/unstable,unstable 2.8.20-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.8.14-1+deb8u1]
libgl1-mesa-dri/unstable,unstable 17.1.4-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 10.3.2-1+deb8u1]
libintl-perl/unstable,unstable 1.26-2 all [upgradable from: 1.23-1+deb8u1]
libmodplug1/unstable,unstable 1:0.8.8.5-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:0.8.8.4-4.1+b1]
libmodule-pluggable-perl/unstable,unstable 5.2-1 all [upgradable from: 5.1-1]
libpackagekit-glib2-18/unstable,unstable 1.1.5-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.1-2]
libpod-readme-perl/unstable,unstable 1.1.2-1 all [upgradable from: 0.11-1]
libpoppler-glib8/unstable,unstable 0.48.0-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.26.5-2+deb8u1]
libpulse0/unstable,unstable 10.0-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 5.0-13+devuan2]
libpulsedsp/unstable,unstable 10.0-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 5.0-13+devuan2]
libqtcore4/unstable,unstable 4:4.8.7+dfsg-11 amd64 [upgradable from: 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-3+deb8u1]
libqtgui4/unstable,unstable 4:4.8.7+dfsg-11 amd64 [upgradable from: 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-3+deb8u1]
librarian0/unstable,unstable 0.8.1-6+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.8.1-6]
libreoffice-help-en-us/unstable,unstable 1:5.3.4-1 all [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7]
libreoffice-java-common/unstable,unstable 1:5.3.4-1 all [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7]
libreoffice-sdbc-firebird/unstable,unstable 1:5.3.4-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7]
libreoffice-sdbc-hsqldb/unstable,unstable 1:5.3.4-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u7]
libresid-builder0c2a/unstable,unstable 2.1.1-15 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.1.1-14]
libsidplay2/unstable,unstable 2.1.1-15 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.1.1-14]
libthunarx-2-0/unstable,unstable 1.6.11-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.6.3-2]
libunique-1.0-0/unstable,unstable 1.1.6-6 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.1.6-5]
libvisual-0.4-plugins/unstable,unstable 1:0.4.0+dfsg1-10 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.4.0.dfsg.1-7]
libxatracker2/unstable,unstable 17.1.4-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 10.3.2-1+deb8u1]
linux-image-amd64/unstable,unstable 4.11+82 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.16+63]
mutt/unstable,unstable 1.8.3+neomutt20170609-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.5.23-3]
orage/unstable,unstable 4.12.1-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 4.10.0-1+b2]
p7zip-full/unstable,unstable 16.02+dfsg-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 9.20.1~dfsg.1-4.1+deb8u2]
packagekit/unstable,unstable 1.1.5-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.1-2]
packagekit-tools/unstable,unstable 1.1.5-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.1-2]
printer-driver-dymo/unstable,unstable 1.4.0-6+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.4.0-5]
printer-driver-splix/unstable,unstable 2.0.0+svn315-6 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.0.0+svn315-4]
pulseaudio/unstable,unstable 10.0-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 5.0-13+devuan2]
pulseaudio-utils/unstable,unstable 10.0-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 5.0-13+devuan2]
python-apt/unstable,unstable 1.4.0~beta3+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.9.3.12]
qpdf/unstable,unstable 6.0.0-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 5.1.2-2]
quodlibet/unstable,unstable 3.7.1-2 all [upgradable from: 3.2.2-1]
rarian-compat/unstable,unstable 0.8.1-6+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.8.1-6]
reportbug/unstable,unstable 7.1.7 all [upgradable from: 6.6.3+devuan1.3]
rsyslog/unstable,unstable 8.14.0-2+devuan1.0 amd64 [upgradable from: 8.4.2-1+deb8u2]
synaptic/unstable,unstable 0.84.2 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.81.2]
system-config-printer/unstable,unstable 1.5.9-2 all [upgradable from: 1.4.6-1]
system-config-printer-udev/unstable,unstable 1.5.9-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.4.6-1]
telnet/unstable,unstable 0.17-41 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.17-36]
thunar/unstable,unstable 1.6.11-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.6.3-2]
thunar-data/unstable,unstable 1.6.11-1 all [upgradable from: 1.6.3-2]
tzdata/unstable,unstable 2017b-2 all [upgradable from: 2017b-0+deb8u1]
xbrlapi/unstable,unstable 5.4-7+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 5.2~20141018-5]
xfce4/unstable,unstable 4.12.3 all [upgradable from: 4.10.1]
xfce4-cpufreq-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.1.3-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.1.0-1]
xfce4-cpugraph-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.0.5-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.5-1]
xfce4-dict/unstable,unstable 0.7.2-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.7.0-1]
xfce4-diskperf-plugin/unstable,unstable 2.5.5-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 2.5.4-3]
xfce4-fsguard-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.0.2-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.1-2]
xfce4-genmon-plugin/unstable,unstable 3.4.0-2+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 3.4.0-2]
xfce4-goodies/unstable,unstable 4.12.3 amd64 [upgradable from: 4.10]
xfce4-mailwatch-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.2.0-2+b2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.2.0-2]
xfce4-mount-plugin/unstable,unstable 0.6.7-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.6.7-1]
xfce4-netload-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.2.4-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.2.0-1]
xfce4-notes-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.8.1-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.7.7-5]
xfce4-panel/unstable,unstable 4.12.1-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 4.10.1-1+devuan1.2]
xfce4-places-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.7.0-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.6.0-1]
xfce4-power-manager-plugins/unstable,unstable 1.4.4-4 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.4.1-1]
xfce4-quicklauncher-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.9.4-11+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.9.4-11]
xfce4-screenshooter/unstable,unstable 1.8.2-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.8.1-5]
xfce4-sensors-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.2.6-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.2.5-2]
xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin/unstable,unstable 0.4.6-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.4.5-1]
xfce4-systemload-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.1.2-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.1.1-4]
xfce4-terminal/unstable,unstable 0.8.5.1-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.6.3-1+b1]
xfce4-timer-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.6.0-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.6.0-1]
xfce4-verve-plugin/unstable,unstable 1.1.0-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.0.0-3]
xfce4-weather-plugin/unstable,unstable 0.8.9-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.8.3-2]
xfce4-xkb-plugin/unstable,unstable 1:0.7.1-2+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:0.5.6-1]
xfconf/unstable,unstable 4.12.1-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 4.10.0-3]
xfdesktop4/unstable,unstable 4.12.3-4 amd64 [upgradable from: 4.10.2-3]
xfdesktop4-data/unstable,unstable 4.12.3-4 all [upgradable from: 4.10.2-3]
xorg/unstable,unstable 1:7.7+19 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:7.7+7]
xserver-xorg/unstable,unstable 1:7.7+19 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:7.7+7]
xserver-xorg-core/unstable,unstable 2:1.19.3-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 2:1.16.4-1]
xserver-xorg-input-all/unstable,unstable 1:7.7+19 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:7.7+7]
xserver-xorg-input-evdev/unstable,unstable 1:2.10.5-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:2.9.0-2]
xserver-xorg-input-mouse/unstable,unstable 1:1.9.2-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:1.9.1-1]
xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/unstable,unstable 1.9.0-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1.8.1-1]
xserver-xorg-input-wacom/unstable,unstable 0.34.99.1-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.26.0+20140918-1]
xserver-xorg-video-all/unstable,unstable 1:7.7+19 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:7.7+7]
xserver-xorg-video-ati/unstable,unstable 1:7.9.0-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:7.5.0-1]
xserver-xorg-video-cirrus/unstable,unstable 1:1.5.3-1+b2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:1.5.2-2+b1]
xserver-xorg-video-fbdev/unstable,unstable 1:0.4.4-1+b5 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:0.4.4-1+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-intel/unstable,unstable 2:2.99.917+git20161206-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 2:2.21.15-2+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-mach64/unstable,unstable 6.9.5-1+b2 amd64 [upgradable from: 6.9.4-2]
xserver-xorg-video-mga/unstable,unstable 1:1.6.5-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:1.6.3-2+b1]
xserver-xorg-video-neomagic/unstable,unstable 1:1.2.9-1+b2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:1.2.8-1+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/unstable,unstable 1:1.0.15-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:1.0.11-1]
xserver-xorg-video-openchrome/unstable,unstable 1:0.5.0-3 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:0.3.3-1+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-qxl/unstable,unstable 0.1.5-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 0.1.1-2+b1]
xserver-xorg-video-r128/unstable,unstable 6.10.2-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 6.9.2-1+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-radeon/unstable,unstable 1:7.9.0-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:7.5.0-1]
xserver-xorg-video-savage/unstable,unstable 1:2.3.9-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:2.3.7-2+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-siliconmotion/unstable,unstable 1:1.7.9-2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:1.7.7-2+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-sisusb/unstable,unstable 1:0.9.7-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:0.9.6-2+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-tdfx/unstable,unstable 1:1.4.7-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:1.4.5-1+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-trident/unstable,unstable 1:1.3.8-1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:1.3.6-2+b2]
xserver-xorg-video-vesa/unstable,unstable 1:2.3.4-1+b2 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:2.3.3-1+b3]
xserver-xorg-video-vmware/unstable,unstable 1:13.2.1-1+b1 amd64 [upgradable from: 1:13.0.2-3.1]

all ok ?

tia !

golinux · 2017-07-08 16:03:55

I've heard many times that skipping a release is a very bad idea. Don't know why you chose to do that . . .

Dev1 · 2017-07-11 12:52:54

howdy folks ...

how to deal with this :

# apt list --upgradable
Listing... Done
rsyslog/testing,testing 8.14.0-2+devuan1.0 amd64 [upgradable from: 8.4.2-1+deb8u2]
N: There is 1 additional version. Please use the '-a' switch to see it
root@devuan:~# apt list --upgradable -a
Listing... Done
rsyslog/testing,testing 8.14.0-2+devuan1.0 amd64 [upgradable from: 8.4.2-1+deb8u2]
rsyslog/now 8.4.2-1+deb8u2 amd64 [installed,upgradable to: 8.14.0-2+devuan1.0]

ascii

tia !

fsmithred · 2017-07-11 13:12:46

rsyslog is not ready. I solved it in an ascii install by using the package from jessie-backports, which is the newest version we have right now.

8.23.0-2~bpo8+1 0
        200 http://packages.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-backports/main amd64 Packages

Dev1 · 2017-07-11 16:19:31

Thx 4 the feedback !

I solved removin it ... no problem till now ...

Dev1 · 2017-07-11 16:23:12

Hi !

someone plz can check this sources.list ?

## package repositories
deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii main  
#deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main  
#deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main  
#deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main  

## source repositories
#deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main  
#deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-updates main  
#deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main  
#deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main  

# Devuan repositories
deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged ascii main
#deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/merged ascii main

something wrong ?

fsmithred · 2017-07-11 17:38:20

I'm confused. How did you solve it?

Your sources.list looks ok except that you're using ascii, not ceres. Did you reinstall or do something else? Right now, I think it makes more sense to use ascii, but it also might help to enable ceres and pin it to a lower priority. Then you can add packages from ceres selectively.

I don't think you need the packages.devuan.org line, but it won't hurt. If you want the rsyslog from jessie-backports, you would need to temporarily add a line with

deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main

and then run

apt-get update
apt-get -t jessie-backports install rsyslog

(Then remove the jessie-backports line and update again)

Dev1 · 2017-07-11 20:55:17

^

# apt purge rsyslog

Last edited by Dev1 (2017-07-11 20:55:48)

fsmithred · 2017-07-11 23:02:59

Oh! I didn't know you could run without a syslogger. If you want one, there are two other choices that do work in ascii. busybox-syslogd and syslog-ng. (You don't need it often, but when you do, it's pretty important.)

Dev1 · 2017-07-13 16:06:16

Hi to @ll !

i'm havin this inconvenient : http://imgur.com/ul0BFZT

it is a BUG ?

as always tia !

Dev1 · 2017-07-14 12:36:02

no one ?

fungus · 2017-07-14 18:05:59

judging from your attempt to go from stable to unstable skipping testing I think you should not go to ceres.
Somehow you seem to have dropped back to ascii and you are not broken. But if you had already gone to
ceres your packages may be ahead in time of what other ascii users are having, so check your list between
installed and available. There is a way to force the system to prefer packages of ascii instead of ceres, even
though they may have a higher version, but be cautious and don't fix things that are not broken.

I suspect the amount of knowledgeable people here active and available to give advise may be too busy or
not present all the time. So we may have to try to help each other, one-eyed and blind.

If I was an investor and linux-distros were in the market, I would put my money in devuan, it is the future!
I feel honored to be here so early and hope to contribute.

zapper · 2017-09-05 01:12:21

fsmithred wrote:

Oh! I didn't know you could run without a syslogger. If you want one, there are two other choices that do work in ascii. busybox-syslogd and syslog-ng. (You don't need it often, but when you do, it's pretty important.)

There are better syslogs you can use including a busybox version of syslog.

fungus · 2017-09-05 20:15:02

he did say "busybox-syslogd and syslog-ng"

I can't believe this is out for so long and nobody caught it. Ceres has a single repository, ascii has exactly the same repositories as jessie (security, update, etc). Just switch all your jessie lines into ascii. If you had looked at the proper web page it lists exactly the proper repositories. This is for future reference as too much time has gone by.

I have in a way parked all my devuan installations waiting for developers to deal with existing issues.
It appears that the summer siesta hasn't ended yet or things haven't gotten in a rolling mode again.
It appears as a strange decision to release Devuan 1 and then go on vacation, it just makes the project
look less professional, or serious. Maybe they should have waited for September.

In any case, those more serious about bug fixing seem to have concentrated on the list, after all they
are mostly debian escapees and they will not adopt to anything better. The logs of the list are next
to impossible to search and locate meaningful information. It has been that way on debian since the
stone age and remains the same in devuan.

Personally if it wasn't for the good work from refracta/fsmithred I would have lost all interest in this system.

zapper · 2017-09-05 21:51:51

fungus wrote:

he did say "busybox-syslogd and syslog-ng"
I can't believe this is out for so long and nobody caught it. Ceres has a single repository, ascii has exactly the same repositories as jessie (security, update, etc). Just switch all your jessie lines into ascii. If you had looked at the proper web page it lists exactly the proper repositories. This is for future reference as too much time has gone by.
I have in a way parked all my devuan installations waiting for developers to deal with existing issues.
It appears that the summer siesta hasn't ended yet or things haven't gotten in a rolling mode again.
It appears as a strange decision to release Devuan 1 and then go on vacation, it just makes the project
look less professional, or serious. Maybe they should have waited for September.
In any case, those more serious about bug fixing seem to have concentrated on the list, after all they
are mostly debian escapees and they will not adopt to anything better. The logs of the list are next
to impossible to search and locate meaningful information. It has been that way on debian since the
stone age and remains the same in devuan.
Personally if it wasn't for the good work from refracta/fsmithred I would have lost all interest in this system.

Why would anyone even want jessie now that debian 9 has been released?

We need to work on jessie too granted, but ascii is more important in my opinion.

I think at some point devuan should get its repos the same way debian does, by itself. Though that may not happen for a long while I am betting. I am just saying, forking debian is a good temporary solution, but it should become independent at some point. long term imo.

PS, I use ceres now, and I am enjoying it thoroughly. Just a thunderbird/wicd-gtk and bleachbit error and enigmail error... otherwise it has been fine and exceptionally good. Good job on ceres and ascii devs! now I think you also need to work on jessie also. I hope you do this soon... either way though, I will not give up on devuan for a long time if ever.

Last edited by zapper (2017-09-05 21:54:13)

golinux · 2017-09-05 22:01:24

zapper wrote:

Why would anyone even want jessie now that debian 9 has been released?

Because it's boringly stable and trouble-free. I will likely run it till 2020 eol.

zapper wrote:

We need to work on jessie too granted, but ascii is more important in my opinion.

No new work is being done on jessie except for a few lingering pkgs in jessie-proposed. All attention is now focused on ascii. It's just that there hasn't been much focusing lately with August vacations etc. I keep hoping for some action . . .

greenjeans · 2017-09-05 22:45:51

zapper wrote:

Why would anyone even want jessie now that debian 9 has been released?

Couldn't tell ya, I don't use Debian and really wasn't waiting for them to release 9 to start doing so, you'll forgive me if I don't get that excited or ever even really pay attention to what Debian is doing and don't care.

zapper wrote:

We need to work on jessie too granted, but ascii is more important in my opinion.

Why?

Jessie is stable and works, it does every conceivable task I could ask a computer to do and does it well. By FAR the lion's share of users want exactly that, 99.9% of them couldn't even tell you what a kernel is, much less which one they are using.

The only people clamoring for the latest bleeding edge distro-breaking whizzbangs, are a very few users that need some newer firmware, and a bunch of hardcore linux geeks that must have the latest everything for reasons even they can't fully explain or understand.

Given those facts, it's more than a little ridiculous to try and lobby people like the VUA's (who are trying to make a nice stable operating system for folks to use), to give that up and focus solely on trying to break as many computers as possible with buggy untested unstable software.

Plenty of work to be done on the stable branch, it's just a stable canvas to work on, people haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what it can do, or how to put it together in new and better ways.

And not for nothing but there are plenty of things to fix left by buggy gnome and redbutt annoyance-ware, and if we keep avoiding those issues they will never get fixed, there are bugs in Mate that have been there for over 5 years and before that in gnome2 and are STILL broken, while Mate actually brags (..shudder..) about switching to GTK3.....

Not gonna push the VUA's to do things any faster by making posts demanding they hurry up or by belittling the work they've already done, just gonna piss 'em off eventually and delay things even more.. it's childish and it needs to stop.

People have no idea of the true mountainous amount of work that has to be done to put out a distro like Devuan, no idea at all.

Zapper, sorry, not all this is directed at you, just needed saying and you caught the short straw this time.

golinux · 2017-09-05 23:21:34

greenjeans wrote:

Not gonna push the VUA's to do things any faster by making posts demanding they hurry up or by belittling the work they've already done, just gonna piss 'em off . . .

Those who are doing the work (other than the derivatives) rarely frequent this forum so they'll never see the bitching. But yes, it is childish and demonstrating a lack of understanding of all the moving parts that need to be coordinated. That being said . . . it has been more than frustrating that things ground to a halt last month while those in EU were on 'holiday' and disheartening that things haven't started to pick up now that September is here . . .

zapper · 2017-09-06 00:24:37

greenjeans wrote:

zapper wrote:
Why would anyone even want jessie now that debian 9 has been released?
Couldn't tell ya, I don't use Debian and really wasn't waiting for them to release 9 to start doing so, you'll forgive me if I don't get that excited or ever even really pay attention to what Debian is doing and don't care.
zapper wrote:
We need to work on jessie too granted, but ascii is more important in my opinion.
Why?
Jessie is stable and works, it does every conceivable task I could ask a computer to do and does it well. By FAR the lion's share of users want exactly that, 99.9% of them couldn't even tell you what a kernel is, much less which one they are using.
The only people clamoring for the latest bleeding edge distro-breaking whizzbangs, are a very few users that need some newer firmware, and a bunch of hardcore linux geeks that must have the latest everything for reasons even they can't fully explain or understand.
Given those facts, it's more than a little ridiculous to try and lobby people like the VUA's (who are trying to make a nice stable operating system for folks to use), to give that up and focus solely on trying to break as many computers as possible with buggy untested unstable software.
Plenty of work to be done on the stable branch, it's just a stable canvas to work on, people haven't even begun to scratch the surface of what it can do, or how to put it together in new and better ways.
And not for nothing but there are plenty of things to fix left by buggy gnome and redbutt annoyance-ware, and if we keep avoiding those issues they will never get fixed, there are bugs in Mate that have been there for over 5 years and before that in gnome2 and are STILL broken, while Mate actually brags (..shudder..) about switching to GTK3.....
Not gonna push the VUA's to do things any faster by making posts demanding they hurry up or by belittling the work they've already done, just gonna piss 'em off eventually and delay things even more.. it's childish and it needs to stop.
People have no idea of the true mountainous amount of work that has to be done to put out a distro like Devuan, no idea at all.
Zapper, sorry, not all this is directed at you, just needed saying and you caught the short straw this time.

Don't worry about it, I don't judge you for this. it must be kind of frustrating not having any updates for a while.

zapper · 2017-09-06 00:26:59

golinux wrote:

zapper wrote:
Why would anyone even want jessie now that debian 9 has been released?
Because it's boringly stable and trouble-free. I will likely run it till 2020 eol.
It does have older packages, but if you like it that way then you should get the updates.
zapper wrote:
We need to work on jessie too granted, but ascii is more important in my opinion.
No new work is being done on jessie except for a few lingering pkgs in jessie-proposed. All attention is now focused on ascii. It's just that there hasn't been much focusing lately with August vacations etc. I keep hoping for some action . . .

I am sure things will pick up eventually.

MiyoLinux · 2017-09-06 03:10:35

There seems to be a disconnect between what Devuan is accomplishing (YEA!) and what some users want.

I noticed that there seemed to be an "expectation" in Devuan providing a truly "free" operating system; however, in listening to Jaromil's presentation at FSCONS 2016 (and unless I misunderstood him), that isn't the focus of Devuan. See the video here...https://youtu.be/wMvyOGawNwo

I, for one, am truly in awe of what the Devuan developers have accomplished (and are doing) in providing a systemd-free system.

While many may want newer software/applications, I'm more than happy to use older software/applications that work rather than having to succumb to the web of systemd in order to have a few extra perks. Perhaps I'm getting too old, and my age is showing...I don't know. Just give me something that works, and I'm happy.

Thank you Devuan!

fungus · 2017-09-06 10:46:51

I understand the focus of Devuan is to make Debian work without systemd, not to fork from debian. The instant a distribution is forked it isn't ever coming back. Meanwhile debian has about 50,000 pkgs and a zillion package maintainers and developers working on them. It would be impossible to fork and maintain this capacity with a small group of people. Even with 500 pkgs installed in debian it is constantly raining updates with no intention to work without systemd.
I am not trying to come up with excuses for Devuan but I see this as part of what Debian SHOULD have been doing to be fair on its tradition. I believe debian died with wheezy and this is debian-systemd or debian2. Devuan is the continuation of true debian.

I wrote a small aricle in my site about how I think that debian is a specific fork of devuan.

Last edited by fungus (2017-09-06 18:46:38)

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