Thoughts on Pipewire

Ron · 2024-06-30 13:35:54

Read today that Mint 22 will be switching from Pulseaudio to Pipewire. That got me to wondering, does Pipewire have any of the same "baggage" as Pulseaudio? What is the consensus of the Devuan forum members concering Pipewire?

igorzwx · 2024-06-30 14:12:04

Most important, it is easy to remove. Just another crap produced by the same sort of people.

I was asked to fix sound quality on Fedora without removing PipeWire.
Sound quality was so bad that it was impossible to use Discord.
First of all, I installed fftrate plugin and configured it for 32bit 192kHz.
The user was already satisfied with sound quality.
Then, I installed apulse and explained how to use it. This produced a sort of happiness.

Ron · 2024-06-30 17:26:00

Yeah, I noticed the company the creator works/worked for. Okay, so that's 0 👍 and 1 👎.

rolfie · 2024-06-30 17:32:21

There are posts on the forum about pipewire, e.g. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5867. I am using it on my travelling laptop. There it works ok for me.
Haven't converted my workstation yet, still works with pulse. Didn't get audio to work with pure ALSA.

Ron · 2024-06-30 17:47:33

Thanks for the link. Didn't see this thread. So I guess it's now 1 👍 and 1 👎.

igorzwx · 2024-06-30 19:50:54

Sorry to interrupt the voting procedure.

rolfie wrote:

Didn't get audio to work with pure ALSA.

This seems to be the problem.

There is a belief that problems can be solved by voting. If it does not work, we may try something else.

Ron · 2024-06-30 20:20:16

I wouldn't call this voting. Just a way of keeping track of the "yeas" and "nays." And like I said in the first post, it is only something I was wondering about. I have no plans to switch. Alsa works just fine for me.

igorzwx · 2024-06-30 20:32:55

Yes, it is very interesting.

EDX-0 · 2024-07-01 12:29:31

i do personally use pipewire and it works for what i do, which is using software that relies on pulse while using software that relies on jack, last i checked that was still a set of hoops to jump with pulse and jack, but since pipewire can provide the interfaces for both pulse and jack from the same daemon it is just a matter of simply running any DAW or plugboard and it just works.

aluma · 2024-07-01 19:46:20

In my opinion, based on experience, everything is simple.
If you want to delve into the settings, we only try alsa with Firefox, it is the most capricious. If there is no sound, add a layer, pipeware or jack.

And if you are lazy, install pulseaudio, it will configure everything itself.
With the first two options, it is not a fact that new versions of programs will work.

Voting is pointless, there are too many different options for computer hardware, bios, proprietary firmware, etc.
The rest is purely a matter of personal tastes and preferences.

Last edited by aluma (2024-07-01 19:47:42)

kapqa · 2024-12-21 21:07:41

can someone please write a guide on "howto" do devuan with alsa-only?

had it done multiple times, but that was still debian 7, maybe 8,
times have gotten bit more diversified,

now with devuan 5.0 this pc does sound cranky,
would love to have an alsa-only, as it sounded always cleaner to me.

igorzwx · 2024-12-21 23:11:30

kapqa wrote:

can someone please write a guide on "howto" do devuan with alsa-only?

You may try something like this:

How to remove pulseaudio (and pipewire)
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=49837#p49837

ArchWiki ALSA
_https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture#Unmuting_the_channels

How to configure a software mixer for ALSA
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6644

If it works, you may test sound quality with ALSA:
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6716
HiRes Binaural+ with ALSA
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6663

Last edited by igorzwx (2024-12-21 23:40:33)

kapqa · 2025-01-07 16:52:36

@igorzwx,

at the moment bit wary to try too much since took me enough time to setup the linux box;

however, i am bit disappointed with the sound quality on linux for my new computer;
provided, the onboard soundcodec is very basic ( Realtek ALC897 )
since was thinking to save money to later upgrade to a PciE Soundcard etc;

but on Windows the spotify could sound very much better; when compared to Devuan or Ubuntu 24.ß4;
up until now was thinking that Linux has issues with soundquality mainly on Laptops (Yes!)
but now beginning to think that the sound maybe too thin on Desktop aswell;

hope to get better experience with a dedicated Soundcard ; altough it seems , Creative does not (provide driver)(~~support~~)( Linux?
it should still get better soundstage?
or should i use an USB DAC?`

thanks.

Last edited by kapqa (2025-01-07 16:53:58)

RedGreen925 · 2025-01-07 17:39:30

but now beginning to think that the sound maybe too thin on Desktop aswell;
hope to get better experience with a dedicated Soundcard ; altough it seems , Creative does not (provide driver)(support)( Linux?
it should still get better soundstage?
or should i use an USB DAC?`

Mostly none of them places provide the support for linux drivers, there are exceptions where they will have someone doing it. But for the most part it is some person not associated with the company or product doing the driver support. Sound can be a problem especially the onboard I have found it to be mostly junk. I used a firewire card for a time connected to a FireWave sound device it worked flawlessly. Now I use the below to get my 5.1 sound it works great but I see the scumbags have more than doubled the price in the just over year since I bought it. If searching around for others you want a CM106 based device as that is what it reports as to the system.

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09N9LLHSC?ref … asin_title

kapqa · 2025-01-07 20:39:25

#RedGreen925

funny you post this item since had just tried it today (had one similar looking the same stacked away in the shelf) but this one did not make any difference (to my ears=) on Devuan in quality; on Windows 11 did not even find the driver ().
But fortunatley the DAC that had relegated secondrow since it gave me problems lately has been re-vived, and for the moment i am satisfied; it gives quite better sound than onboard;
will probably wait and maybe invest in better speakers.

prices seem to fluctuate; paid such a unit around 140 euro maybe 5 years ago and even then it was expensive and certainly no bargain; but the next one with beter IO was already 350 euro +
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/en/p … acmagic100

was thinking on the creative pcie 5'plus , but since i am not using headphones very much at the moment i think the DAC could do it for the moment.

thanks.

greenjeans · 2025-01-07 20:50:35

can someone please write a guide on "howto" do devuan with alsa-only?

If I recall correctly, all I did this go-round, was:
Netinstall devuan 5 with core Mate desktop
Uninstall Pulseaudio, it demanded I install Pipewire in it's stead, I did so.
Then I uninstalled Pipewire, it didn't complain.
Added some extra packages for ALSA, alsamixer-gui to get mixer, and libasound equalizer package to get EQ, etc.

Mate works fine without anything but Alsa, and so does Openbox.

golinux · 2025-01-07 20:56:37

@greenjeans . . . Thanks for the howto! I am still safely on chimaera but will visit here when I am finally motivated to upgrade . . .

igorzwx · 2025-01-08 03:32:06

@kapqa

I have Intel HDA codec ALC887.
Sound quality is good with both ALSA and OSS4.

If you do not know how to configure ALSA, any card may sound crappy.

Step 1: Remove pulseaudio.
The manual is here:
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=49837#p49837

Step 2: Compile fftrate ALSA plugin and configure a software mixer for ALSA.
The manual is here:
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6644

fftrate is an open source (GPL3) magic tool to fix sound quality on Linux Laptops and Desktops.

$ du -sh ./* | sort -h
24K	./alsa-config-utils_1.6.3_amd64.deb
32K	./libasound2-plugin-fftrate_1.6.3_amd64.deb
40K	./pcm-utils_1.6.3_amd64.deb

kapqa · 2025-01-12 16:22:26

If you do not know how to configure ALSA, any card may sound crappy.

this may be the case,
but it be a long time since the sound on linux so much irritated me;

most probably have a "faulty" setup;

for example, when i use program "quod libet" on devuan 5,

and have maximum volume on both system volume, and program volume, for quod libet, much songs do "overreact" and sound as if cranked up over 100%, very noisy;

the same , with same setup, same program, same 100% settings, same songs, does however not happen on ubuntu 24.04, which sounds clean(er).

the devuan 5.0 has been installed with default desktop (xfce4).
installed kernel is like 6.1.0.28;
don't know if pipewire or pulseaudio etc. is being used;

thanks.

rolfie · 2025-01-12 16:40:57

Just switched to Pipewire on my Daedalus workstation re-install. Works fine, easy start, same on my travelling laptop. I can't complain about any sound change or deficiency. Audacious immedialtely played my ripped CD files (wav), I can't say anything bad about quality.

Edith: pulse wasn't installed.

Last edited by rolfie (2025-01-12 20:34:29)

RedGreen925 · 2025-01-12 18:03:28

don't know if pipewire or pulseaudio etc. is being used;

This is what you see when using Pipewire.

zeus@9600k:~$ pactl info
Server String: /run/user/1000/pulse/native
Library Protocol Version: 35
Server Protocol Version: 35
Is Local: yes
Client Index: 222
Tile Size: 65472
User Name: zeus
Host Name: 9600k
Server Name: PulseAudio (on PipeWire 1.2.7)
Server Version: 15.0.0
Default Sample Specification: float32le 2ch 48000Hz
Default Channel Map: front-left,front-right
Default Sink: alsa_output.usb-0d8c_USB_Sound_Device-00.analog-surround-51
Default Source: alsa_input.usb-0d8c_USB_Sound_Device-00.analog-stereo
Cookie: f57b:3733

If still on the PulseAudio that is all that will appear on the Server Name: line.

igorzwx · 2025-01-12 18:19:13

@kapqa

The solution to Linux sound problems is rather straightforward:
1. remove pulseaudio;
2. install and configure fftrate ALSA plugin.

It seems that many Debian users have already removed pulseaudio,
but nobody has compiled fftrate, although it is very simple.

There is a conspiracy theory that pulseaudio and pipewire are destroying human brain by "harmful frequencies".

You may ask golinux to compile deb packages of fftrate for you.
He has Chimaera (oldstable) and, therefore, can install gcc-10 and g++-10 from the standard Chimaera repositories (that is, Devuan's oldstable repositories).
This also means that gcc-10 is the default compiler for Chimaera, and he does not need to configure "make" (./fftrate/src/lib/makedef.mk ) for gcc-10.
The fftrate deb-packages, which were compiled on old Debian/Ubuntu distros, also work on new Debian/Ubuntu (and Devuan) versions without problems.

Daedalus 5.0 is the current stable release.
Chimaera 4.0 has moved to oldstable status.

Last edited by igorzwx (2025-01-12 18:21:27)

kapqa · 2025-01-12 20:08:36

the Daedalus has according to "pactl info" the pulseaudio only;

after installing "pipewire" according to Debian wiki for 12

In its most basic form, PipeWire can be installed simply by installing the pipewire package. 
For Debian 12 and newer, pipewire-audio-client-libraries is replaced by pipewire-alsa and pipewire-jack. It is recommended to install the metapackage pipewire-audio which depends on wireplumber (the recommended session manager), pipewire-pulse (to replace PulseAudio), pipewire-alsa (ALSA) and libspa-0.2-bluetooth (for Bluetooth support). Moreover, installing this metapackage will remove pulseaudio to prevent any conflicts between both sound server.

afterwards, alsamixer does not find any audio anymore ("host is down")

the step here by StopAi gives the pipewire on Devuan 5.0 ago

https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5867

Next, put these lines to your
.xsessionrc
file
wireplumber &
pipewire &
pipewire-pulse &
Attention! Order is important here!
After installing these packages and configuring your xsession, it is recommended to reboot the system.

now the pipewire seems function better, just first impression, hopefullly the step to alsa-only will also be doable.

thanks.

RedGreen925 · 2025-01-12 21:07:41

I used a different one from that thread, it test to see if already running and kills it off so you do not get two running at the same time. That would really only happen with a logout and X server restart but none the less better safe than sorry.

zeus@9600k:~$ cat .xsessionrc 
# Added when  startx to start pipewire on login to desktop
# https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5867

# kill any existing pipewire instance to restore sound
pkill -u "$USER" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse 1>/dev/null 2>&1
pkill -u "$USER" -fx /usr/bin/wireplumber 1>/dev/null 2>&1
pkill -u "$USER" -fx /usr/bin/pipewire 1>/dev/null 2>&1

exec /usr/bin/pipewire &

# wait for pipewire to start before attempting to start related daemons
while [ "$(pgrep -f /usr/bin/pipewire)" = "" ] ; do
   sleep 1
done

exec /usr/bin/wireplumber &

exec /usr/bin/pipewire-pulse &

igorzwx · 2025-01-12 21:32:48

@kapqa

"alsa-only" means that you may need some Linux commands.

To reload ALSA on Devuan, you can use alsa-utils.

The Devuan default is "SysV init"

$ /sbin/init --version
SysV init version: 3.06

If you are using "SysV init", you can reload ALSA with this command:

$ sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils force-reload
Shutting down ALSA...done.
Setting up ALSA...done.

"soft restart":

$ sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils restart
Shutting down ALSA...done.
Setting up ALSA...done.

$ sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils stop
Shutting down ALSA...done.

$ sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils start
Setting up ALSA...done.

Another useful command is fuser

$ fuser -av $(find /dev/snd -type c 2>/dev/null)
                     USER        PID ACCESS COMMAND
/dev/snd/controlC0:  igor       2328 F.... mate-settings-d
                     igor       2382 F.... mate-volume-con
/dev/snd/pcmC0D0c:
/dev/snd/pcmC0D0p:   igor       2843 F...m firefox-esr
/dev/snd/seq:
/dev/snd/timer:      igor       2843 f.... firefox-esr

PID 2328 /usr/bin/mate-settings-daemon
PID 2382 mate-volume-control-status-icon
PID 2843 /usr/lib/firefox-esr/firefox-esr

"mate-volume-control-status-icon" is MATE volume control applet.
It works with ALSA in "alsa-only" mode (as well as "mate-settings-daemon").
However, after removal of pulseaudio, you have to reload ALSA, or reboot the system.

Last edited by igorzwx (2025-01-13 00:04:06)

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#1 2024-06-30 13:35:54

Thoughts on Pipewire

#2 2024-06-30 14:12:04

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#3 2024-06-30 17:26:00

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#4 2024-06-30 17:32:21

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#5 2024-06-30 17:47:33

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#6 2024-06-30 19:50:54

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#7 2024-06-30 20:20:16

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#8 2024-06-30 20:32:55

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#9 2024-07-01 12:29:31

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#10 2024-07-01 19:46:20

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#11 2024-12-21 21:07:41

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#12 2024-12-21 23:11:30

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#13 2025-01-07 16:52:36

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#14 2025-01-07 17:39:30

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#15 2025-01-07 20:39:25

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#16 2025-01-07 20:50:35

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#17 2025-01-07 20:56:37

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#18 2025-01-08 03:32:06

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#19 2025-01-12 16:22:26

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#20 2025-01-12 16:40:57

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#21 2025-01-12 18:03:28

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#22 2025-01-12 18:19:13

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#23 2025-01-12 20:08:36

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#24 2025-01-12 21:07:41

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

#25 2025-01-12 21:32:48

Re: Thoughts on Pipewire

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