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#1 2023-07-29 21:53:53

recklessswing
Member
From: Türkiye
Registered: 2020-12-18
Posts: 89  

Is systemd still bad in 2023?

Do we still hate systemd in 2023? Maybe they have fixed all those things for all those years, didn't they?

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#2 2023-07-30 09:35:53

Camtaf
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 418  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

Waste of time asking that here!!! big_smile

We are here because we want nothing to do with systemd - Debian's biggest mistake was to try & force it onto its users, that's why Devuan exists. wink

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#3 2023-07-30 11:49:11

soren
Member
Registered: 2023-04-30
Posts: 123  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

recklessswing wrote:

Do we still hate systemd in 2023? Maybe they have fixed all those things for all those years, didn't they?

If systemd still runs as process id 1, im calling that init "not fixed".

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#4 2023-07-31 11:13:34

stopAI
Member
Registered: 2023-04-04
Posts: 146  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

This malware, called "systemd" added new feature:
A new "soft-reboot" mechanism has been added to the service manager. A "soft reboot" is similar to a regular reboot, except that it affects userspace only: the service manager shuts down any running   services and other units, then optionally switches into a new root  file system (mounted to /run/nextroot/).

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#5 2023-08-31 07:41:05

czeekaj
Member
Registered: 2019-06-12
Posts: 154  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

Lenart now works at microsoft.

Make up your mind on that.

Last edited by czeekaj (2023-08-31 07:41:52)

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#6 2023-08-31 14:54:15

Dutch_Master
Member
Registered: 2018-05-31
Posts: 281  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

Systemd still does NOT adhere to core *nix principles:

Build a tool for a single task, make it perform that task to perfection. It does NOT do other tasks as that compromises the original task execution.

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#7 2023-08-31 20:02:36

Ron
Member
Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 498  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

If it was bad eleven years ago then it's still bad today. Probably even worse.

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#8 2023-09-01 00:02:29

Segfault
Member
Registered: 2017-02-10
Posts: 14  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

Dutch_Master wrote:

Systemd still does NOT adhere to core *nix principles:

Build a tool for a single task, make it perform that task to perfection. It does NOT do other tasks as that compromises the original task execution.

Yea, as promised systemd is fully modular and anyone can choose what functionality they want ... oh wait ...

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#9 2023-09-01 22:57:28

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 612  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

...imho, it's just M$ hobbling the competition.


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#10 2023-09-02 07:18:26

swanson
Member
Registered: 2020-04-22
Posts: 98  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

Yes it's bad and it has even gotten worse over the years. Gobbling up more and more features. A big blob.

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#11 2023-10-23 15:53:24

WDstudios
Member
Registered: 2023-10-22
Posts: 17  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

My understanding of the situation is this:

(1) For the end-user, it doesn't make much of a difference. When you choose to use a Linux distro specifically because it doesn't use systemd, you're taking sides in an ideological battle more than you're making a decision on practical grounds.

(2) At the time when systemd was created, Sysvinit and Upstart were the only init systems around. They had certain unsustainable problems for developers that systemd fixed, and that's why all of the major Linux distros switched to it between 2011 and 2014.

(2) Sysvinit, Upstart, and systemd are no longer the only init systems to choose from, so the case for using systemd is much weaker than it was in 2011-2014.

(4) The real issue is not whether systemd is "good" or "bad". The real issue is whether monopolization of the linux ecosystem by any one init system is good or bad. Spoiler alert: it's very, very bad. Systemd occupies that slot now, but in an alternate timeline where systemd never existed, we'd probably all be whining and bitching about Upstart instead.

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#12 2023-10-23 22:26:18

ralph.ronnquist
Administrator
From: Battery Point, Tasmania, AUS
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 1,190  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

Fair enough; though that storyline that "systemd fixed something unsustainable for developers" is and was just plain marketing speech, and it's far off any reality. But the proponents sure filled the web with that thought so it's voiced failry commonly.

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#13 2023-10-24 03:18:41

WDstudios
Member
Registered: 2023-10-22
Posts: 17  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Fair enough; though that storyline that "systemd fixed something unsustainable for developers" is and was just plain marketing speech, and it's far off any reality.

So what's the real reason why Fedora, RHEL, and Ubuntu moved from Upstart to systemd?

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#14 2023-10-24 03:32:28

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 3,229  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

The person responsible for systemd now works for Microsoft after he wormed systemd into Linux. The Debian vote was a sham:
Combatting revisionist history https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=120652

Embrace : Extend : Extinguish in action

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#15 2023-10-24 04:05:35

steve_v
Member
Registered: 2018-01-11
Posts: 361  

Re: Is systemd still bad in 2023?

Let us also not overlook the fact that systemd and pretty much everything else coming out of redhat/freedesktop et-al these days is under weak-copyleft or non-copyleft licences (e.g. LGPL or MIT).
If you want to speculate on plausible, non-technical motivation for systemd aggressively absorbing so much functionality previously provided by independent projects, look no further than circumventing the inconvenient (for redhat and their corporate overlords) restrictions in the GPL (especially GPL3) regarding linking non-free code against GPL code and its distribution as part of commercial products.

IOW, is it really "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish", or more "Embrace, Corrupt, Sell"? I expect only time will tell.

Last edited by steve_v (2023-10-24 04:07:26)


Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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