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#1 2023-01-17 23:57:58

deepforest
Member
Registered: 2020-03-24
Posts: 219  

"target_home" dir after installation?

Devuan 4 Chimaera
Live graphical installation
3 separate partitions
/root
/swap
/home (using for others distros, and have user folders)

After long installation of Devuan 4. OS booted normally but space on /root partition is fully used by "target_home" folder witch contain full copy of separate /home partition?! I am ask what is the mess?! Why installation make unneeded copy of /home to /root partition?!

https://ibb.co/KKpp9z4

Last edited by deepforest (2023-01-17 23:58:17)

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#2 2023-01-18 07:00:31

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 3,053  
Website

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

Does this problem occur with the non-live installer (ie, the installer accessed via the boot menu)?

I've never tried the live installer (I don't even know what it is) but the traditional boot menu installer has always behaved impeccably for me.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII, 18.

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#3 2023-01-18 07:58:45

steve_v
Member
Registered: 2018-01-11
Posts: 201  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I've never tried the live installer

I have, once. I was not particularly impressed.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I don't even know what it is

If we're talking about the desktop livecd, I expect that would be refracta installer.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

the traditional boot menu installer has always behaved impeccably for me.

Ditto.
I've never seen the traditional debian installer do anything funky either, but IME it's pretty trivial to screw up refracta, since it's really just a bunch of shell scripts, rsync, and yad/zenity.
There's no option go back if you miss something, precious little in the way of confirmation, and skipping or closing any of the random dialogs and terminal windows it spawns is likely to have it just truck on and copy the system regardless. i can totally imagine how one might end up in this kind of mess.
Perhaps I'm being unduly harsh here, but considering I was able to accidentally break the install process on my very first go (though not as badly as this example) it sure doesn't inspire much faith.

If the OP had provided proper reproduction steps, I might even be able to prove it too... oh well.

Random thought, I don't suppose we did anything... unexpected in the live session before running the installer, like, say mounting the existing /home filesystem somewhere?
It's just a thought mind, while I am looking at what I think is the current refracta scripts with one eye, I'm far too lazy to properly dig through that bunch of bash right now.

And another random thought, because I know HoaS just loves shellcheck...

shellcheck ./refractainstaller-gui | grep ^In | wc -l
143
shellcheck -S warning ./refractainstaller-gui | grep ^In | wc -l
52
shellcheck -S error ./refractainstaller-gui | grep ^In | wc -l
5

Ouch. tongue
Yeah, I just use d-i. You should too.

Last edited by steve_v (2023-01-18 09:08:04)


Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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#4 2023-01-18 10:34:16

Camtaf
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 261  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

I've always run 'live' & installed from it to disk, & never had any problems. smile

I've found installing from live distros to be the easiest way to install distros, not just Devuan, to get up & running quickly.

It's been a long time since I've installed from an installation disk! wink

Edit: The OP's problem may well have been from having his 'home' mounted at the time of installing.

Last edited by Camtaf (2023-01-18 10:36:19)

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#5 2023-01-18 11:09:01

Marjorie
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From: Teignmouth, UK
Registered: 2019-06-09
Posts: 184  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

AFAIK (I've only used it as a live disk to test compatibility with my PC and then switched to using the full installer as I need something more complicated)  the live installer just does a basic job of reproducing the configuration that comes on the live iso. It installs everything to a single partition on the target disk, complete with / and /home, Not sure what it does about swap.
If you have an existing /home on another disk it will know nothing about that. If /home is on another partition but on the same disk it will remove it when if formats the disk.
After installing you can go into the new installation and remap its /etc/fstab to point /home to your existing /home partition.

Last edited by Marjorie (2023-01-18 11:32:19)

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#6 2023-01-18 11:21:45

steve_v
Member
Registered: 2018-01-11
Posts: 201  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

Camtaf wrote:

I've found installing from live distros to be the easiest way

Where it involves a real installer with some sembance of a polished, quality product (e.g. calamares) I agree. If it's refractainstaller, not so much. That thing has "janky" written all over it.

Camtaf wrote:

The OP's problem may well have been from having his 'home' mounted at the time of installing.

Yeah, that's my (second) guess as well... Right after "If I can make refracta derp and skip steps, so can he".

Last edited by steve_v (2023-01-18 11:24:53)


Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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#7 2023-01-18 22:55:10

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,171  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

Camtaf's diagnosis is probably correct. I've sometimes seen remnant /target_home and /target_boot directories that didn't get cleaned up correctly, but they are just mountpoints and are always empty on reboot.

Also, that first option in the live installer, "Create new, separate /home partition" is not the same thing as "Re-use an existing /home partition that already has files on it." That latter option doesn't exist. If you want to re-use an existing home, just let the installer put /home in the root partition and edit your fstab afterward. I recommend keeping the user configs from the live install in case you need to use them. Just rename /home to /home.live or something like that.

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#8 2023-01-19 01:41:11

deepforest
Member
Registered: 2020-03-24
Posts: 219  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

Ok. I check. I am reinstall OS via live gui, without any mounted partitions and report.

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#9 2023-01-19 02:16:28

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,171  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

It shouldn't matter that your partition was mounted, because you should not be selecting that pre-existing home partition during the installation. Please be aware that the default action is to format any partitions you select. If you select a partition with data you want to keep, you will lose it.

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#10 2023-01-19 02:26:55

deepforest
Member
Registered: 2020-03-24
Posts: 219  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

Not. Its again copy all data from previously /home dir, but its not mounted
https://ibb.co/cYDQDHj

Last edited by deepforest (2023-01-19 02:27:05)

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#11 2023-01-19 10:58:41

Camtaf
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 261  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

I suggest that you read/re-read the installation instructions, I only ever went wrong when trying to reuse a /home directory, which as stated, isn't supported.

If using refractainstaller, just install to one partition, then alter the /etc/fstab to mount your original, 2nd partition, on /home.

Last edited by Camtaf (2023-01-19 10:59:05)

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#12 2023-01-19 12:35:00

aluma
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Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 102  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

fsmithred wrote:

..Please be aware that the default action is to format any partitions you select. If you select a partition with data you want to keep, you will lose it.

  In my experience, this is the first installer that formats the /home partition.
This is wrong and I can give examples of other distributions that don't do this by default.
What is the need for such a solution?

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#13 2023-01-19 13:56:10

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,171  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

deepforest, I would like to see the installation log (refractainstaller.log) that should be in the user's home directory. You can post it here or paste.debian.net or email it to me through the forum. Thanks.

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#14 2023-01-19 15:40:51

Camtaf
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 261  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

aluma wrote:
fsmithred wrote:

..Please be aware that the default action is to format any partitions you select. If you select a partition with data you want to keep, you will lose it.

  In my experience, this is the first installer that formats the /home partition.
This is wrong and I can give examples of other distributions that don't do this by default.
What is the need for such a solution?

Refractainstaller is just that, it installs the distro, (originally just Refracta), as that was what it was written for - the fact that other distros choose to use it as well is proof that it works for its intended purpose.

It's simple enough, just install to your system partition, & then add your old /home partition to /etc/fstab.

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#15 2023-01-19 16:12:57

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 102  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

Camtaf wrote:

...It's simple enough, just install to your system partition, & then add your old /home partition to /etc/fstab.

With all due respect to colleagues and developers ..
1. During installation, formatting is mandatory for the "/" partition and is not allowed without a direct user selection for the /home partition.
2. Is it really so difficult today to create a program that would not force the user to fool himself with editing fstab and moving folders?
And if the /home section contains a terabyte of the user's archive, where should they be copied with this installation?
3. Why don't Q4os or openSuse have such problems?
4. In the end, it's just indecent to have such an installer today, I think so.

I apologize for the offtopic, but I already had the "pleasure" of using the refracta.

Last edited by aluma (2023-01-19 16:14:15)

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#16 2023-01-19 18:22:17

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,171  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

aluma wrote:

1. During installation, formatting is mandatory for the "/" partition and is not allowed without a direct user selection for the /home partition.

I don't understand what you are saying here, but it sounds wrong.

It is not mandatory for the installer to format the chosen partition(s) but it is mandatory for them to have a filesystem if you want them to contain files, and formatting is the default setting.

You can partition and format before running the installer and tell the installer not to format. That's a checkbox in the options menu of the graphical installer and it's a config file setting in the cli installer.

You have the choice to install the entire system to one partition, or you could optionally have separate partitions for /boot and/or /home.

The installer doesn't know what to do with your old home or the user configs it contains. It's up to you to figure out any conflicts caused by mismatched or missing config files caused by sharing a home between two different operating systems.

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#17 2023-01-19 18:58:20

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 102  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

I'll try to explain.

Refracta does not allow you to choose to install with separate partitions "/" and "/home" without formatting the latter.
This is nonsense, in my opinion.

Here  https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=38079#p38079   the option with separate sections and formatting "/" was chosen, the result is that both are formatted.

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#18 2023-01-21 01:34:36

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 1,289  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

The Refracta Installer is by far my favorite installer...whether using the GUI or terminal versions.

While I will agree that "getting used to it" may be a hindrance to some people, once you get used to it, it's stinkin' spectacular!!!

It may not offer all of the bells and whistles that other installers do, but what it does offer, it offers it well.

I'll take the Refracta Installer over the buggy Calamares installer any day.

...but that's just me. Many thanks to the developer of the Refracta Installer! Just know that your work is appreciated!!! smile


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#19 2023-01-21 04:37:44

deepforest
Member
Registered: 2020-03-24
Posts: 219  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

fsmithred wrote:
aluma wrote:

1. During installation, formatting is mandatory for the "/" partition and is not allowed without a direct user selection for the /home partition.

I don't understand what you are saying here, but it sounds wrong.

It is not mandatory for the installer to format the chosen partition(s) but it is mandatory for them to have a filesystem if you want them to contain files, and formatting is the default setting.

You can partition and format before running the installer and tell the installer not to format. That's a checkbox in the options menu of the graphical installer and it's a config file setting in the cli installer.

You have the choice to install the entire system to one partition, or you could optionally have separate partitions for /boot and/or /home.

The installer doesn't know what to do with your old home or the user configs it contains. It's up to you to figure out any conflicts caused by mismatched or missing config files caused by sharing a home between two different operating systems.

as usual, on others distros i can use one /home partition for many linux os with separeted user folders, why i cant here do the same?

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#20 2023-01-21 06:47:41

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 102  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

MiyoLinux wrote:

...It may not offer all of the bells and whistles that other installers do, but what it does offer, it offers it well...

I

Completely agree with you!
Gparted solves all partitioning and formatting issues.

But I asked why the formatting function was added with the principle "either all or nothing"?
It is usually needed when reinstalling, but in the case of a separate /home partition, it is useless and dangerous.

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#21 2023-01-21 10:08:16

steve_v
Member
Registered: 2018-01-11
Posts: 201  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

deepforest wrote:

why i cant here do the same?

As HoaS implied in the very first reply to this thread, you can. With the not-refracta bootable install image.

If you insist on using the live image, a workaround has already been suggested.

Complaining about a missing feature in refracta installer achieves nothing. If you really want it, nobody is stopping you from implementing it yourself.

Last edited by steve_v (2023-01-21 10:12:00)


Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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#22 2023-01-22 04:21:19

deepforest
Member
Registered: 2020-03-24
Posts: 219  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

steve_v wrote:
deepforest wrote:

why i cant here do the same?

As HoaS implied in the very first reply to this thread, you can. With the not-refracta bootable install image.

If you insist on using the live image, a workaround has already been suggested.

Complaining about a missing feature in refracta installer achieves nothing. If you really want it, nobody is stopping you from implementing it yourself.

Thank you.
This is non refracta?
https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/
and what difference between
https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_i386_desktop.iso
and
https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/devuan_chimaera_4.1_0_amd64_pool1.iso
?

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#23 2023-01-22 04:30:34

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,707  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

@deepforest . . . you might want to read the descriptions of the available Devuan isos on our website.

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#24 2023-01-22 04:36:55

ralph.ronnquist
Administrator
From: Clifton Hill, Victoria, AUS
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 859  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_i386_desktop.iso is an installer iso for an i386 architecture installation, plus a package pool that includes all packages including dependencies for a number of desktop installations.

devuan_chimaera_4.1_0_amd64_pool1.iso is a package pool only iso that doesn't contain the installer software. It contains the 5000 "most popular" packages for amd64 architecture installations according to popcon.debian.org at the date of the creation of the iso, plus their "depends" and "recommends".

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#25 2023-01-22 16:24:30

deepforest
Member
Registered: 2020-03-24
Posts: 219  

Re: "target_home" dir after installation?

soory, my mistake, i mean what difference between
https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_desktop.iso 3.5gb
and
https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/devuan_chimaera_4.1_0_amd64_pool1.iso 4.7gb
why so different size?
both using non fefracta installer?

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