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#1 2022-09-30 15:34:25

jue-gen
Member
Registered: 2022-07-07
Posts: 23  

Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Hi guys, when Xfce 4.18 is released, is there a possibility that it will come in Chimaera? Maybe via the backports?

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#2 2022-09-30 15:37:37

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,666  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

OMG I hope not. That time of year is depressing enough . . .

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#3 2022-09-30 19:33:38

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 2,772  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

jue-gen wrote:

Hi guys, when Xfce 4.18 is released, is there a possibility that it will come in Chimaera? Maybe via the backports?

No.


"Who's the idiot in charge?" — ralph.ronnquist

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#4 2022-09-30 20:03:46

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,107  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Hello:

golinux wrote:

OMG I hope not.

+1

Best,

A.

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#5 2022-10-01 11:35:54

Ogis1975
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 307  
Website

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

jue-gen wrote:

Hi guys, when Xfce 4.18 is released, is there a possibility that it will come in Chimaera? Maybe via the backports?

No. It is impossible. Maybe in Daedalus. Of course, on the condition that this project does not "die".


What economists call over-production is but a production that is above the purchasing power of the worker, who is reduced to poverty by capital and state.
            ----+- Peter Kropotkin -+----

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#6 2022-10-01 11:55:20

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 2,772  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

MX Linux might backport the new Xfce version to stable. They've done it before but it is a large undertaking.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2022-10-01 11:55:41)


"Who's the idiot in charge?" — ralph.ronnquist

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#7 2022-10-01 12:23:42

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,107  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Hello:

Ogis1975 wrote:

... on the condition that this project does not "die".

If you are referring to Devuan, I doubt it will die.

What is dead to me and (from what I have read) quite a few xfce users is xfce in any form after 4.12.2.
The path the developers have taken, the useless bloat and all the unfixed issues (compositor leading the way) made me decide not to upgrade further.
Not to mention the Poetteringesque attitude from the developers.

https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56141#p56141
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56143#p56143
https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56144#p56144

Still have to decide what to use, the strongest/more suitable option I see being Openbox if and when I upgrade to Chimaera.

I think it should be the default Devuan desktop from Chimaera onwards.
ie: with a desktop as similar as possible to what Philip Newborough's CrunchBang project was.

Unfortunately, CrunchBang developement was ended by it's developer back in 02/2015. It was (YMMV) one of the best distributions at the time.

Best,

A.

Last edited by Altoid (2022-10-01 12:25:57)

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#8 2022-10-01 15:31:56

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 2,772  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Altoid wrote:

Unfortunately, CrunchBang developement was ended by it's developer back in 02/2015.

No, it wasn't. I remember that thread well.

Philip decided to rage quit because he wasn't able to earn enough money from #! to live off it. He forbade the community from using the name if they continued the project (which they did) but curiously did not mind at all when the "#!++" developer (who wasn't an active member of the community) did just that.

Several #! "forks" (for want of a better word) do exist and are maintained. Unfortunately Openbox is GTK2 based and GTK2 went EOL some time ago but some people like obsolete software, apparently.


"Who's the idiot in charge?" — ralph.ronnquist

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#9 2022-10-01 16:41:32

Camtaf
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 248  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

I too, was a #! user, until its demise, found AntiX & enjoyed my stay there, until 'new blood' kept putting more & more into the menus & making it less like it was when I found it, hence why I'm now here; I still prefer a lightweight WM distro, but Devuan Live is as easy to install as AntiX was, & I'm getting older & lazier - Devuan is my main distro now. smile

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#10 2022-10-01 19:19:14

jue-gen
Member
Registered: 2022-07-07
Posts: 23  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Ogis1975 wrote:

... on the condition that this project does not "die".

Yes, ok. I chose Xfce because it is kind of default in Devuan. I didn't think it was the case that Xfce could have a foreseeable end.

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#11 2022-10-01 19:41:13

jue-gen
Member
Registered: 2022-07-07
Posts: 23  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Altoid wrote:

... the strongest/more suitable option I see being Openbox ...

Actually, I was so interested in Xfce because Wayland is at least partially realized in  Xfce 4.18. Wayland is supposed to be more secure than the X.org server. Gnome I do not want and Plasma I have never experienced without program crashes on my ThinkPad. On a USB stick I have heads with openbox. I like that a lot. But openbox will probably never come with wayland. Maybe Wayland is also a hype and the security is not that much better. Maybe I am running after a phantom. But the views I've read here about Xfce have made me install Lxqt now, which I've had good experiences with in the past.

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#12 2022-10-01 19:59:56

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 2,772  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Word has it that Plasma's Wayland desktop is the new Xfce.

And in respect of a Wayland Openbox-a-like see https://github.com/johanmalm/labwc — the author is a BunsenLabs developer (the community-lead continuation of CrunchBang) so it might be covered on their forums.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2022-10-01 20:00:22)


"Who's the idiot in charge?" — ralph.ronnquist

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#13 2022-10-01 21:33:43

jue-gen
Member
Registered: 2022-07-07
Posts: 23  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Word has it that Plasma's Wayland desktop is the new Xfce.

And in respect of a Wayland Openbox-a-like see https://github.com/johanmalm/labwc — the author is a BunsenLabs developer (the community-lead continuation of CrunchBang) so it might be covered on their forums.

Good, I installed plasma once again. But it is like before. e.g. when moving icons in the taskbar Plasma crashes regularly. You have to be pain resistant to work with it.

Labwc is a wlroots-based window-stacking compositor for wayland ... Never heard of it. There are always surprises.

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#14 2022-10-02 00:15:17

hunter0one
Member
Registered: 2021-12-31
Posts: 21  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

I'm on FreeBSD about to come back to Devuan with Plasma probably. What happened with the new release of Xfce? The CSD? They added an option for CSD to be turned off in the settings menu.

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#15 2022-10-02 00:22:44

sgage
Member
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 313  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

I had dabbled in XFCE periodically since its inception, never much cared for it on aesthetic and functional grounds. When Devuan happened, I really tried to warm up to it, since it was Devuan's default DE, but just couldn't roll with it.

KDE gives me the willies - can't put my finger on it, but again, I have tried to 'like' it, but it just doesn't mesh with me, or something. Just too much. Hard to articulate.

For my main daily driver, I have been using MATE for many years, with its stock top panel and a Plank dock in lieu of a bottom panel. It works perfectly for me, for what I do. If the MATE project gets too gnome-y, I'll probably just go to OpenBox or something. I happily used IceWM for years, for that matter.

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#16 2022-10-02 00:24:53

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,666  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

hunter0one wrote:

What happened with the new release of Xfce? The CSD? They added an option for CSD to be turned off in the settings menu.

More GTK3 more intractable CSD more skinny bars It's turning into a less usable and fuglier cluster**** . . . IMO of course . . .

sgage wrote:

KDE gives me the willies - can't put my finger on it, but again, I have tried to 'like' it, but it just doesn't mesh with me, or something. Just too much. Hard to articulate.

Over a decade ago I once installed KDE 3. When the first animated, bouncing  icon popped up, I was so out of there. Even then it was bloated . . .

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#17 2022-10-02 01:14:26

andyprough
Member
Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 276  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Camtaf wrote:

found AntiX & enjoyed my stay there, until 'new blood' kept putting more & more into the menus & making it less like it was when I found it

It's easy to forget that Warren Woodford was creating antiX as a minimal Mepis side distro for the first 6 or 7 years of its existence.


I visit the Dev1Galaxy using 3 different browsers: 1) links2 in a terminal; 2) self-compiled Pale Moon; 3) Mull from the F-Droid store. If you want Pale Moon with no dbus dependency or with sndio support, I can help.

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#18 2022-10-02 01:58:56

hunter0one
Member
Registered: 2021-12-31
Posts: 21  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

golinux wrote:
hunter0one wrote:

What happened with the new release of Xfce? The CSD? They added an option for CSD to be turned off in the settings menu.

More GTK3 more intractable CSD more skinny bars It's turning into a less usable and fuglier cluster**** . . . IMO of course . . .

I thought Xfce has been off GTK2 for at least the past couple years. Fortunately I saw an issue and a following commit on the Xfce gitlab page for making the CSD optional. There will be a button in the settings menu to turn off CSD in libxfce4ui. I don't like Xfce in the first place but that is nice at the very least.

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#19 2022-10-02 04:12:10

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,666  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

The fix doesn't fix all of it unfortunately.

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#20 2022-10-02 13:25:57

hunter0one
Member
Registered: 2021-12-31
Posts: 21  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

CSD has ruined GTK, and I can't think of many good Qt apps that don't pull in an arm and a leg.

Just installed Devuan and chose KDE in the task selector, how horrendous. Also I thought Chimaera removed dependencies on pulseaudio in the task selector? I used aptitude to resolve removing that crap pronto but its not completely resolved.

What environment do Devuan users use?

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#21 2022-10-02 14:21:23

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 1,235  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Altoid wrote:

Still have to decide what to use, the strongest/more suitable option I see being Openbox if and when I upgrade to Chimaera.

I think it should be the default Devuan desktop from Chimaera onwards.
ie: with a desktop as similar as possible to what Philip Newborough's CrunchBang project was.

I never had the pleasure of using #!

My introduction to Openbox was through Semplice Linux in 2015.

Yet, with what little I know of #! from just some web-perusing, it would appear to me that both the Star and Crowz derivatives of Devuan are similar to what #! was???

EDITED to include web links of both Star and Crowz

Last edited by MiyoLinux (2022-10-02 14:41:36)


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#22 2022-10-02 14:28:38

MiyoLinux
Member
Registered: 2016-12-05
Posts: 1,235  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Unfortunately Openbox is GTK2 based and GTK2 went EOL some time ago but some people like obsolete software, apparently.

I'm not trying to stir up anything here, but I seem to recall a certain person...whom I won't name...but I might be quoting the unnamed person in this post...also had/has their own Openbox respin? I know, because I tried it.

So, it would appear that some people apparently do like obsolete software and providing it for others to use.

Tee-hee...

big_smile tongue


I have been Devuanated, and my practice in the art of Devuanism shall continue until my Devuanization is complete. Until then, I will strive to continue in my understanding of Devuanchology, Devuanprocity, and Devuanivity.

Veni, vidi, vici vdevuaned. I came, I saw, I Devuaned. wink

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#23 2022-10-02 16:39:15

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,107  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Hello:

golinux wrote:

More GTK3 ...
... intractable CSD ...
... skinny bars ...
... less usable and fuglier cluster ...

Quite so ...

golinux wrote:

... IMO ...

And also mine.

I opine that it should not be the default for Devuan.

O.

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#24 2022-10-02 16:43:48

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,107  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Hello:

golinux wrote:

... doesn't fix all of it unfortunately.

Indeed ...

It only fixes (not a fix, just a way of avoiding it) the having screwed things up by using CSE in the first place.
There are so many things they could be dedicating time to fix.
But no, skinny bars and CSE it is.

--> Seems they have their own Poeterings at xfce HQ's.

O.

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#25 2022-10-02 17:02:28

Camtaf
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 248  

Re: Xfce 4.18 at Christmas

Fluxbox is king as far as I'm concerned, but basically any WM is better than a DE, I'd even take JWM....... wink

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