A peek into the future of distros

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-01-27 16:57:55

Apologies for the clickbait thread title, I copied it from the blog post:

systemd core — the building block framework abstracting basic functionalities
A universal package manager with a single reposotiry where anyone can push
flatpak/appimage/snap — containarized applications
polkit and apparmor — granular security
systemd-homed — movable home with an immutable base system
wayland compositors — the graphical environment
pipewire — media pipeline

https://venam.nixers.net/blog/programmi … stros.html

Sounds great. I presume everybody is thrilled about this direction of development?

golinux · 2021-01-27 17:33:51

This is news?

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-01-27 17:54:01

Lol. No, not really I suppose but I have noticed that pipewire insinuated itself into my Debian box when I went from buster to bullseye and now I can't remove it. Bugger.

sgage · 2021-01-27 17:58:47

You're right, golinux. The trend in this direction has been rolling along for years.

It feels to me like an era is ending. Not just the free software/simple clean understandable solutions/UNIX philosophy era, but in the wider commercial world the whole "personal computer" era. All the big players are essentially pushing towards a mainframe/terminal model, for which you can pay subscription fees forever. Your stuff is on their servers. The software you use is on their computers. Etc. It's like the personal computing revolution (that I fought for in the early days) never happened. :-/

Guess I'll just use Devuan for as long as they'll let me.

Last edited by sgage (2021-01-27 18:01:04)

zapper · 2021-01-27 18:11:39

This is why I believe we need more people working on an alternative operating system such as HyperbolaBSD.

Although, unless more people work on it, it won't be out till 2024 for the base system alone.

That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.

Dunno if that will happen though.

Only two options may exist in the not so near future, fork the linux kernel and maintain it separately or ditch linux in favor of a new solution.

I am thinking the latter may be better.

sgage · 2021-01-27 18:18:52

zapper wrote:

This is why I believe we need more people working on an alternative operating system such as HyperbolaBSD.
Although, unless more people work on it, it won't be out till 2024 for the base system alone.
That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.
Dunno if that will happen though.
Only two options may exist in the not so near future, fork the linux kernel and maintain it separately or ditch linux in favor of a new solution.
I am thinking the latter may be better.

The Linux kernel is just a kernel, and not really the problem. There just needs to be distros that buck the trend(s). I don't see how ditching it would really help matters. Until and unless the Linux kernel mandates systemd, which could happen after they kick Linus out.

fsmithred · 2021-01-27 18:28:10

A universal package manager with a single repository where anyone can push

WTF???

polkit and apparmor — granular...

security uploaded by anyone. Right.

That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.

Buster/Beowulf has another year before it moves into LTS. Then figure another two before Bullseye/Chimaera moves to LTS. You could easily add another year or two to that, so we are potentially up to 5 years. Chimaera is already working pretty well, and Bullseye has gone into soft freeze, so I feel confident that it can't get screwed up too badly for us to fix and use it.

sgage · 2021-01-27 18:31:49

fsmithred wrote:

A universal package manager with a single repository where anyone can push
WTF???
polkit and apparmor — granular...
security uploaded by anyone. Right.
That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.
Buster/Beowulf has another year before it moves into LTS. Then figure another two before Bullseye/Chimaera moves to LTS. You could easily add another year or two to that, so we are potentially up to 5 years. Chimaera is already working pretty well, and Bullseye has gone into soft freeze, so I feel confident that it can't get screwed up too badly for us to fix and use it.

Chimaera is working perfectly for my (albeit perhaps not overly challenging) use case. :-)

golinux · 2021-01-27 19:24:47

Looks like Devuan will be needing more hands on deck . . .

zapper · 2021-01-28 00:05:20

golinux wrote:

Looks like Devuan will be needing more hands on deck . . .

Way more...

Remember how I pmed you about linux's uncertainty...

I really hope I am wrong about that...

Not just for the next five years, but in general...

zapper · 2021-01-28 00:09:00

sgage wrote:

zapper wrote:
This is why I believe we need more people working on an alternative operating system such as HyperbolaBSD.
Although, unless more people work on it, it won't be out till 2024 for the base system alone.
That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.
Dunno if that will happen though.
Only two options may exist in the not so near future, fork the linux kernel and maintain it separately or ditch linux in favor of a new solution.
I am thinking the latter may be better.
The Linux kernel is just a kernel, and not really the problem. There just needs to be distros that buck the trend(s). I don't see how ditching it would really help matters. Until and unless the Linux kernel mandates systemd, which could happen after they kick Linus out.

True enough, linux is just a kernel... but keep in mind, that alot of people (corporations) are targeting linux to screw things up.

I wonder if BSD will become the future someday due to all this abusive corporate manipulation...

Smh...

sgage · 2021-01-28 01:00:26

zapper wrote:

sgage wrote:
zapper wrote:
This is why I believe we need more people working on an alternative operating system such as HyperbolaBSD.
Although, unless more people work on it, it won't be out till 2024 for the base system alone.
That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.
Dunno if that will happen though.
Only two options may exist in the not so near future, fork the linux kernel and maintain it separately or ditch linux in favor of a new solution.
I am thinking the latter may be better.
The Linux kernel is just a kernel, and not really the problem. There just needs to be distros that buck the trend(s). I don't see how ditching it would really help matters. Until and unless the Linux kernel mandates systemd, which could happen after they kick Linus out.
True enough, linux is just a kernel... but keep in mind, that alot of people (corporations) are targeting linux to screw things up.
I wonder if BSD will become the future someday due to all this abusive corporate manipulation...
Smh...

And then a lot of people (corporations) will train their sights on BSD. I don't think the 'solution' is to run. The fork won't be in the Linux kernel, but it could be in distro-land - those that roll with systemd and the other crap, and those that don't. For a start, we have Devuan :-)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-01-28 16:08:57

The kernel has been completely pwned by the corporations: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/about/board/

Haiku is looking really good these days...

bgstack15 · 2021-01-28 16:32:22

Systemd core: Hahaha, no. Just no. If I wanted a giant blob, I'd just run a certain Micro$oft operating system.
Universal package manager: like apt+dpkg? Rpm/yum is fine too. Just horses of different colors.
Flatpak/appimage/snap: um, no. If it takes more than a second to start a calculator, you're doing it wrong. Also, even on that blog post, a person commented he has dozens of mount points from snaps.
Polkit and apparmor: I've always felt uneasy about policykit but I cannot quite put my reasons into words. I know some people hate xml, so that might be a good enough reason. And apparmor, lol. I really wish I had enough guts to set up SELinux on Devuan. I miss SELinux. You put that in targetted mode, and you're protected even from yourself!
Systemd-homed: "moveable home," lol, you mean like a separate logical volume for /home? I guess they don't mean that. Ew, /home on a removable media? Yank out the wrong disk and everything goes kaput.
Wayland: I thought X11's integration with everything was pretty great. I have no desire to switch to something else that isn't as fully-featured.
Pipewire: I didn't like pulseaudio. Maybe it's like Star Trek movies and this is an even-numbered (Warning: TVTropes link) one.

zapper · 2021-01-29 09:08:31

sgage wrote:

zapper wrote:
sgage wrote:
The Linux kernel is just a kernel, and not really the problem. There just needs to be distros that buck the trend(s). I don't see how ditching it would really help matters. Until and unless the Linux kernel mandates systemd, which could happen after they kick Linus out.
True enough, linux is just a kernel... but keep in mind, that alot of people (corporations) are targeting linux to screw things up.
I wonder if BSD will become the future someday due to all this abusive corporate manipulation...
Smh...
And then a lot of people (corporations) will train their sights on BSD. I don't think the 'solution' is to run. The fork won't be in the Linux kernel, but it could be in distro-land - those that roll with systemd and the other crap, and those that don't. For a start, we have Devuan :-)

You raise a very good point there... Although, t feel like linux is majorly bloated.

I checked an old kernel from 2.6 and compared it to 5.0+ the size has become staggeringly larger.

That all being said, you did raise a good point, the more targets, the more corporations have to work to screw things up.

Danielsan · 2021-02-05 07:08:24

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The kernel has been completely pwned by the corporations: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/about/board/
Haiku is looking really good these days...

Haiku is pretty good but lacks GPU acceleration yet, they tried with a GSOC program to get closer but the student missed the goal... It looks like also the guy behind the Haiku kernel has been employed by Gugl to work over the Phucsia kernel...

zapper · 2021-02-05 11:16:37

Danielsan wrote:

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
The kernel has been completely pwned by the corporations: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/about/board/
Haiku is looking really good these days...
Haiku is pretty good but lacks GPU acceleration yet, they tried with a GSOC program to get closer but the student missed the goal... It looks like also the guy behind the Haiku kernel has been employed by Gugl to work over the Phucsia kernel...

Scary... so he is working with google or as some call it gaggle...

mckaygerhard · 2021-02-05 12:38:32

those directions has PROs and CONs ...

LEst take only one point: software availavility:

PRO:

if there a fully hole world standar in linux.. any of the developers and packagers (and also 3rth party companies etc) will always made quiclky packages for your OS (linux, not debian or BSD or alpine etc etc) cos just will build in an only working environment etc etc well you know

CON:

so more shit will come to the only hole, just liike M$ guindows.. .. and companies will do the whatever wants.. cos there is only one direction .. (umm like disctatorship), i guess redhat, suse and such craps are under the hood right! very suspect!

I really apreciate that the PRO but i'm more afraid of the CON's

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-02-05 14:59:19

zapper wrote:

Scary... so he is working with google or as some call it gaggle...

Nah, that just means they know what they're doing. After all Ken Thompson and Rob Pike both now work for the big G.

mckaygerhard · 2021-02-05 15:15:42

google recently deploy a teraflops cabel conectin USA and EU, puff gooogle is the big brother that crash linux currently..

yeti · 2021-02-08 02:04:45

(Hackaday) Holding A Mirror Up In Front Of GNU/Linux
This is basically just a pointer to the next link, but sometimes interesting comments show up on Hackaday, so I thought mentioning this one may lead to more pointers, links, insights, ... for this discussion.

Why you should migrate everything from Linux to BSD

dice · 2021-02-08 07:33:15

yeti wrote:

(Hackaday) Holding A Mirror Up In Front Of GNU/Linux
This is basically just a pointer to the next link, but sometimes interesting comments show up on Hackaday, so I thought mentioning this one may lead to more pointers, links, insights, ... for this discussion.
Why you should migrate everything from Linux to BSD

that was a good read, i was unaware red hat is mixed in with the us military.

zapper · 2021-06-13 12:56:59

dice wrote:

yeti wrote:
(Hackaday) Holding A Mirror Up In Front Of GNU/Linux
This is basically just a pointer to the next link, but sometimes interesting comments show up on Hackaday, so I thought mentioning this one may lead to more pointers, links, insights, ... for this discussion.
Why you should migrate everything from Linux to BSD
that was a good read, i was unaware red hat is mixed in with the us military.

I haven't responded till now, but that is friggin awful. Although it makes sense that the us government would have some sneaky way to hurt linux.

HyperbolaBSD sounds better all the time...

Camtaf · 2021-06-13 17:56:54

I've kept my hand in with BSD ever since systemd became a reality - too much Corporate interference going on in Linuxland - I'll be ready, if I have to...

zapper · 2021-06-14 10:17:17

Camtaf wrote:

I've kept my hand in with BSD ever since systemd became a reality - too much Corporate interference going on in Linuxland - I'll be ready, if I have to...

Very wise!

OpenBSD or HyperbolaBSD are the best choices I think.

Though one of them is in development...

Probably not even alpha yet? I think?

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#1 2021-01-27 16:57:55

A peek into the future of distros

#2 2021-01-27 17:33:51

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#3 2021-01-27 17:54:01

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#4 2021-01-27 17:58:47

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#5 2021-01-27 18:11:39

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#6 2021-01-27 18:18:52

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#7 2021-01-27 18:28:10

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#8 2021-01-27 18:31:49

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#9 2021-01-27 19:24:47

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#10 2021-01-28 00:05:20

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#11 2021-01-28 00:09:00

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#12 2021-01-28 01:00:26

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#13 2021-01-28 16:08:57

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#14 2021-01-28 16:32:22

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#15 2021-01-29 09:08:31

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#16 2021-02-05 07:08:24

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#17 2021-02-05 11:16:37

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#18 2021-02-05 12:38:32

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#19 2021-02-05 14:59:19

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#20 2021-02-05 15:15:42

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#21 2021-02-08 02:04:45

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#22 2021-02-08 07:33:15

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#23 2021-06-13 12:56:59

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#24 2021-06-13 17:56:54

Re: A peek into the future of distros

#25 2021-06-14 10:17:17

Re: A peek into the future of distros

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