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#126 Re: Off-topic » Do you know jOS? » 2021-05-21 22:37:22

golinux wrote:

Seems like a snake oil scam to me.

Give me all your data AND pay for it?
A bad joke... joke-OS...

#128 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-05-04 04:52:06

mstrohm wrote:

The good thing is that the gemini protocol and its markup format doesn't allow script (as far as I know) so you will always be able to read the text on a gemini page. If Firefox/Chromium together with the HTML5/Javascript world continues to become a de-facto blob world, because the JavaScript is getting too complex to study its code, the gemini protocol with a wide variety of browsers will continue the goal of the internet: Make information available to everyone.

Nope!

From Gemini's master's page:

$ printf 'gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/\r\n' \
    | ncat --ssl gemini.circumlunar.space 1965 \
    | head

20 text/gemini
# Project Gemini

## Overview

Gemini is a new internet protocol which:

* Is heavier than gopher
* Is lighter than the web
* Will not replace either

And I bet he's right with the last line.

Please let's continue to dream of safe Browsers instead.

#129 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-05-02 13:52:17

TL;DR … I don't have answers, just more questions.

dice wrote:

exactly., they are trying to do far too much stuff imo. Years ago browsers did not have embedded pdf viewers, you needed outside software for this, namely adobe, but not anymore due to foss. Mupdf, ftw!

Some want a whole OS in the browser, others want it to do only HTML and code everything in it.
Wait!
Isn't the HTML-only browser an OS in HTML then?

Convergence of features means convergence of attack surface.

I think both strategies will converge in functionality, and that way the attack surface will converge too.  If you "emulate" your favourite external applications in "active" HTML1337-extensions, they will be able to do the same harm as your external "PDF-browser (with JS)" sure can do too.  I'm not looking at browser sandboxes now, because you could do the same with chroots, jails, containers, VMs in your real(?) OS too.

You download a PDF with JS internals, a LibreOffice spreadsheet/document with active parts or even an Emacs/Org/Babel text with executable Babel blocks inside and you may have an unwanted surprise soon.

The problem isn't the embedded PDF viewer with JS, the problem is allowing possibly dangerous functionality by default.

# local variables:
# visual-line-mode: t
# org-babel-noweb-wrap-start: "«««"
# org-babel-noweb-wrap-end: "»»»"
# org-confirm-babel-evaluate: nil
# end:

Sure that's (config vars at end-of-file, only one of these lines is a danger) neat with your private texts, where you know which text contains which active parts, but in this example Emacs will ask at loading time.  It you put the same setting in your Emacs startup, it won't. Will you always read that config vars list Emacs wants you to confirm or just semi-automagically type the spell to allow continuing?

While clicking on foreign stuff you typically won't have the knowledge which stuff contains harmful contents and which doesn't.  But will a question "Allow activating feature XYZZY for this text?   [yes] [no] [always]" really help?  How many individual "[yes]" clicks will it cost until René Average will click "[always]"?

Why have a walled garden, while letting everyone or everything inside?

But now for something completely different?

dice wrote:

Smart folks create website without javascript sorcery, but it seems it is the ever present cancer killing most websites these  days.

Smart folks still live in caves and fire is their newest achievement.

Or: It isn't that simple.

If we would declare (TeX's) DVI files with links inside as default format for the web, sure lots of users would call for helpers to get active parts too.  The development would repeat with just a different base format. There is some deeper problem/demand involved.  Maybe Sasha Average looks at computer screens as new TVs?
They have to be wriggly and make sounds?

There is a demand for these features, and so we need to find ways to present them in a safe way, or at least, as not everyone is coding, should find ways to demand them being implemented in a safe way, and the right to make providers of unsafe stuff accountable for their damage.

We need the data cattle uprise...

I'd prefer a world where I don't need to wall and lock my house and garden.

...but that may stay a dream.

#130 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-05-01 14:14:33

It starts to derail the topic a bit  ...  or already an unsingned long?

Hit shappens!

#131 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-04-30 19:50:45

mstrohm wrote:

And Dillo is released under the terms of the GPLv3, so there should be no trademark worries as with Firefox or Palemoon and no risk of building software that could be used in a closed source software as with the BSD-licensed Chromium.

Licenses wars again?
Please put that into an own thread.

mstrohm wrote:

Plus, Dillo has FTP support built-in wink

FTP is a DilloPlugIn: https://hg.dillo.org/dillo/file/tip/dpi/ftp.c

/*
 * Dpi for FTP.
 *
 * This server checks the ftp-URL to be a directory (requires wget).
 * If true, it sends back an html representation of it, and if not
 * a dpip message (which is caught by dillo who redirects the ftp URL
 * to the downloads server).
 *

I've playing with Dillo on my to do list because of its easy looking DPIs, but still some other topics have a higher position there.

Several stuff normally directly baked into the browser is realised as DPIs in Dillo:

—▷ https://hg.dillo.org/dillo/file/tip/dpi

And externally developed DPIs don't look sooooo scary...

—▷ https://github.com/boomlinde/gemini.filter.dpi

#132 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-04-26 17:15:52

Maybe ${THEY} would keep FTP if someone adds cookies and JS to it...  :-Þ

#133 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-04-24 06:59:00

Read about the history of browsers.  They were meant as unified frontend to access information scattered around the net being accessible via many different protocols.  THAT is the way the web was born.  Many sites used FTP servers to present their documents.  And Gopher was very common back then too.

If protocol diversity is torn down, the web loses lots of dimensions, one for each discarded protocol.  And it already has lost so many of them, if viewed via mainstream browsers.

But there still are some browsers that offer a lot of protocols.

Look into elinks's features.conf for what all you are missing while using a mainstream browser!  Even FINGER and FSP are supported, and serverless local CGIs (W3M can do that too and implements a filesystem view and 'w3mman' as local CGIs), which turns such a browser into a standard frontend for own scripts.  Read that as 'file:///cgi-bin/...'.

Dillo has a simple plug in system, that looks like even a text mode fossil like me could be able to write add ons for other protocols.  This Gemini plugin for Dillo demonstrates it in Go.

And sure there is Emacs with different add ons to browse the web (Eww and siblings), but most of them are a bit lacking. OTOH via Dired+Tramp you get file systems access even to remote systems, Elpher does Finger, Gopher and Gemini, Magit can be seen as Git browser, with Eshell+Tramp the world is just a "cd" away, browsing into several archive formats (e.g. (Surprise: Emacs includes more than one editor plugin too!) transparently edit stuff in ZIP files) is naturally, four different "IRC browsers" are known, mail, news, jabber, ... Emacs is a browser!  Well... the renderer for HTML needs an overhaul... can you help there?

Browsers should unite the different dimensions (protocols, text formats, renderers) of the nets instead of being divisive.  And here I'm looking especially at the single protocol browsers for only HTTP+HTML, only Gopher, only Gemini, ...
Don't do that! That's divisive and considered unfriendly and may create locked in syndromes.  Ok, or at least it is very ugly, if we need a different program for viewing each (protocol,text-representation) combination.

Don't allow ${THEM} to turn the net/web/mesh into a one dimensional string!

#134 Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-04-20 12:43:01

yeti
Replies: 50
Mozilla Add-onsFeature Removal Blog
What to expect for the upcoming deprecation of FTP in Firefox

——————————
Edit:  ...just for trying to remove the "[SOLVED]" in the title.  ;-)

——————————
Edit: Guess what... it worked!  \o/

#135 Re: DIY » Minimalism Tips » 2021-04-14 20:18:43

I̶n̶t̶e̶r̶n̶e̶t̶?̶
A̶l̶w̶a̶y̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶?̶
UUCP!

#136 Re: DIY » Minimalism Tips » 2021-04-14 19:54:27

andyprough wrote:

If you can't do it with elinks or links2, you probably didn't need to do it anyway.

Look at which protocols can be activated at compile time!
Even FSP!
And that is file transfer antibloat!  \o/
Let's launch some FSP-Servers again!

––––––––––
Edit: I mean "in Elinks"...

#140 Re: DIY » Minimalism Tips » 2021-03-27 07:14:08

dice wrote:
~ $ echo "scale=2; 1.0 / 2.0" | bc
.50

Back to the roots...

$ dc -e '2k 1.0 2.0 / f'
.50

—▷ wikipedia://Bc_(programming_language)#History

#141 Re: DIY » Minimalism Tips » 2021-03-26 18:39:05

Or use a nice and easy language that was made especially for numbercrunching:

#!/usr/bin/dc -f
_2.1sx0.7sX_1.2sy1.2sY32sM72sW23sH8k[q]sq0sh[lhlH=q0sw[lwlW=qlXlx-lW1-/
lw*lx+sRlYly-lH1-/lh*ly+sI0sr0si0sa0sb0sm[lmlM=qlalb+4<q2lr*li*lI+silalb
-lR+srlm1+smlr2^sali2^sbl0x]s0l0xlm32+Plw1+swl1x]s1l1xAPlh1+shl2x]s2l2x

smiley_emoticons_frankenstein_lol.gif

#142 Re: DIY » Minimalism Tips » 2021-03-26 11:19:28

AWK... or: Sometimes minimalism looks like luxury.

#!/usr/bin/awk -f
# ncomm-1565083172
BEGIN {
	if(ARGC<2) {
		print "usage: ncomm list_1 ... list_N" >"/dev/stderr"
		exit(1)
	}
	for(i=1;i<ARGC;i++) {
		print s ARGV[i]
		s=s"| "
		while((rc=getline < ARGV[i])>0) { P[$0]++ ; f[$0,i]++ }
		if(rc<0) {
			print "ncomm: read error in file: "ARGV[i] >"/dev/stderr"
			exit(2)
		}
	}
	print s
	c="sort | cut -d/ -f2-"
	for(i in P) {
		printf i"/" | c
		for(n=1;n<ARGC;n++) printf f[i,n]?"+ ":"· " | c
		print i | c
	}
	close(c)
}

E.g.: For hunting differences in packages lists of multiple Devuan installs:

$ ncomm packages.pi1-0 packages.pi2-0 packages.pi3-0 | awk 'NR<5||/init/'
packages.pi1-0
| packages.pi2-0
| | packages.pi3-0
| | | 
· · + init 1.24+devuan1.0 
+ + · init 1.46+devuan1.0 
· · + initramfs-tools 0.120+deb8u2 
+ · · initramfs-tools 0.130 
+ · · initramfs-tools-core 0.130 
+ + + initscripts 2.88dsf-59.3+devuan2 
· · + init-system-helpers 1.24+devuan1.0 
+ + · init-system-helpers 1.46+devuan1.0 
+ + + sysvinit 2.88dsf-59.3+devuan2 
+ + + sysvinit-core 2.88dsf-59.3+devuan2 
· · + sysvinit-utils 2.88dsf-59.2+devuan2 
+ + · sysvinit-utils 2.88dsf-59.3+devuan2 

AWK is omnipresent, even in systems based on busybox (OpenWrt) and often can replace whole spreadsheets.  Learning to do do some basic stuff in AWK takes only some few hours and pays back fast.

#143 Re: DIY » Minimalism Tips » 2021-03-26 11:01:12

dice wrote:

Doing basic math in the bash shell.

BASH can do "more readable" than expr:

#!/bin/bash
#
# ###surprise### in bash
#
# 20131116      start.
#

((xmin=-8601))  # int(-2.1*4096)
((xmax=2867))   # int( 0.7*4096)

((ymin=-4915))  # int(-1.2*4096)
((ymax=4915))   # int( 1.2*4096)

((maxiter=30))

((dx=(xmax-xmin)/72))
((dy=(ymax-ymin)/23))

C='.-+co%#'
((lC=${#C}))

for((cy=ymax;cy>=ymin;cy-=dy)) ; do
        for((cx=xmin;cx<=xmax;cx+=dx)) ; do
                ((x=0))
                ((y=0))
                ((rsq=0))
                for((iter=0;iter<maxiter && rsq<=16384;iter++)) ; do
                        ((xn=((x*x-y*y)>>12)+cx))
                        ((yn=((x*y)>>11)+cy))
                        ((x=xn))
                        ((y=yn))
                        ((rsq=(x*x+y*y)>>12))
                done
                ((c=iter%lC))
                echo -n "${C:$c:1}"
        done
        echo
done

#144 Re: Freedom Hacks » Keeping sysvinit in LMDE3 :) » 2021-03-19 10:24:43

                                smilie_girl_020.gif

golinux wrote:

Almost exactly 3 years ago, I had brief contact with the LM developer and we discussed the possibility of basing LMDE on Devuan.  Then I never heard from him again.  Now it seems this idea might finally be taking off. Would be great if it happened!

#145 Re: ARM Builds » [Solved] Devuan and Raspberry Pi 3B+ hardware » 2021-03-14 22:24:09

Would grabbing the deb-src from RasPIan and rebuilding it on Devuan work?
You'd have a deb (apt-ftparchive?) then for a local repo () or to dpkg -i it.
You'd notice incompatible updates then, which you won't get if installed without the OS's knowledge.

#146 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-03-11 06:39:30

Camtaf wrote:

Debians decision to use systemd split the Linux community - I don't think the split can be repaired - I, personally, keep an eye on BSD, because I don't like the way Systemd works by amalgamating everything together like Windows Registry - one of the reasons I quit using Windows as soon as I could learn to use unix like O/Ses.

A FreeBSDer's comments Systemd:
(linux.conf.au 2019) The Tragedy of systemd

——————————

TL;DW ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo&t=1654s

#147 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] virt-manager/qemu-kvm won't install (chimaera/ceres) » 2021-03-01 23:47:47

Why not just use qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm or qemu-system-i386 -enable-kvm directly?

#148 Re: Devuan » Why are systemd files present in Devuan? » 2021-03-01 19:04:47

dice wrote:

The way i see it is that linux is just a kernel, gnu coreutils are just software and without a framework around them they are unusable by themselves without interaction from one another, unless im mistaken?

Depends...
Something must load and start the kernel (kernel floppy, then prompting for root FS floppy), and there must be something that plays PID1, which could be a statically linked shell with lots of builtins (busybox?) and you'd need some pre-existing nodes in `/dev` or something like the old devfs to auto generate them.

These parts already ™should™ give a running system.

Or gave... I think the last time I did such experiments was in 0.99.15 days.

#149 Re: Devuan » Why are systemd files present in Devuan? » 2021-02-28 21:46:10

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Many computer users run a modified version of the systemd system every day, without realizing it.

How that?
I think I definitely know which of my penguins have caught the systemd flu and which have not.

#150 Re: Devuan » Devuan kFreeBSD » 2021-02-26 15:38:21

mckaygerhard wrote:

totally true.. but noted that most of that shit is windosers users .. in fact are hybrid people inflintrating in free softwware projects.. noted that almost haflt of them also works in some M$ project in some way?

https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/about/board

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