You are not logged in.
CF...
pcmcia...
pci slot
I'm confused.
Compact Flash (which I assume is what you mean by "CF") is pin-compatible with the IDE/PATA interface standard, and as such should be virtually indistinguishable from a traditional IDE hard disk. The specs on the page you linked do mention PCI and an IDE controller, but I see nothing about PCMCIA.
How is this CF card actually connected? Assuming the IDE, and the controller chipset is nothing too exotic (and Devuan has drivers for it), it should "just work", the same as any other IDE HDD.
Indeed, I have several real "really old pc"s (circa 1993-1998), and a simple passive CF-IDE adapter works perfectly in every OS I have tried, including Devuan/Debian. Hell, even DOS can boot from CF cards, on machines from the '80s. That's why retro enthusiasts like them so much.
Ed. AFAICT the driver for the Geode embedded IDE controller should be drivers/ata/pata_cs5535.c.
A cursory grep through the current Devuan (i686) kernel config suggests this driver is compiled as a module (CONFIG_PATA_CS5535=m), but I haven't checked to see if it's included in the initrd by default, as I don't have an i686 Devuan install handy.
All that said, if your board uses the LX800, which it looks like is the case, you may well be SOL with any release newer than Jessie. Debian (and by extension Devuan) dropped support for i586 some time ago.
I think defrag is more necessary than most of the *ix purists like to admit.
You're entitled to think whatever you want, of course.
My opinion on defragging ext* remains unshaken all the same though, and it's nothing to do with being a "purist". Ext* simply doesn't have the same rampant fragmentation issues that FAT and NTFS do.
MS is currently struggling to duplicate it with their "Resilient File System" (ReFS), but still recommends even servers use NTFS most of the time, I believe.
At this point, I'm really starting to suspect ReFS is vaporware.
Since ZFS is *BSD native, there is some sort of a license conflict and it's not easily available in Linux.
Solaris native, actually. But it does have a very nice BSD port.
Sun Microsystems released the ZFS source under their own take on a FOSS licence (the CDDL) shortly before they were devoured by Oracle, and actively developed ports are available for most BSD variants, MacOS and Linux.
Unfortunately It's not entirely clear whether the CDDL is compatible with the GPL, and there have been claims both ways. The FSF says it isn't, while the SFLC and Ubuntu claim that it is... As such, most GNU/Linux distros don't ship ZFS out of the box, requiring users to install it later.
For personal use the licence shenanigans is largely irrelevant, and full support on debian-based distros is just an 'apt install zfs-dkms zfsutils' away. You can even boot a GNU/Linux system from a ZFS pool, though I can't comment on Devuan's support for that specifically.
I might have to occasionally delete and re-copy the entire contents of a volume to defrag it. Seems likely to cause excessive wear.
Uhh, defragging a volume causes "excessive" wear as well... But hey, if you really want to do that kind of thing, go nuts.
Proton is supposed to be good, but can you use it without signing up for Steam?
Yes and no, and it's a complete pain in the ass.
Fortunately, TK-Glitch maintains a wine build-system with features backported from proton, and compatibility is usually just as good as the real thing.
AFAIK there are no convenient binaries for debian-based distros (TK-Glitch is an Arch user BTW), but if you don't want to compile stuff yourself you can get also get them through Lutris. This is probably the easiest, most compatible option outside of installing Steam, and it's in the Devuan repos...
Or just swipe the Lutris wine tarballs for use with your frontend of choice. I get the distinct impression the Lutris devs don't like people doing this (an attitude that pisses me off no end), but they aren't particularly well hidden. ![]()
Aside, if you want optimal gaming performance with Wine, you'll probably want a kernel with the fsync and/or futex2 patchset. These can also be found on TK-Glitch's github, and IIRC the Xanmod and Liquorix kernels include them if you don't want to patch/build by hand.
I can't comment on how well those kernels behave with Devuan though, since the only machine I actually game on runs Gentoo.
IME the biggest problem with gaming on GNU/Linux isn't compatibility or performance any more (I get framerates within 1-2% of native), it's the rise of intrusive kernel-level anti-cheat / DRM.
Unfortunately there's no easy fix for that, so if your MMO habits include games that install ring-0 malware for "security" purposes or auto-ban wine users for "cheating", you'll probably want to keep a windows partition around...
Or better yet, vote with your wallet and just refuse to buy games that spy on you or try to hijack your system.
I've never used fancontrol so perhaps wait for steve_v to correct me.
Nah, you're all good.
I don't actually use fancontrol either these days, since most modern BIOS implementations include similar functionality.
I have spent a fair bit of time hacking on lm-sensors / fancontrol in the past though, somewhere around 2005 IIRC.
Both of the mentioned scripts will (or at least did) set everything to max when they exit, by design, for fairly obvious safety reasons. Modern machines have overheat failsafes, but that was not always the case.
Only if you don't mind the ridiculous memory usage. Have you tried it with de-duplication enabled?
That's why there are so many warnings WRT the storage saving vs memory usage trade-off of dedup. In my case that trade isn't worth it, so I don't enable it.
IIRC the 64GB of RAM in my machine cost me ~120USD, and frankly I only installed 64 because I could. For a reasonable home-server pool size, ZFS (without dedup) will run just fine with 4.
More is better of course, as with most things. ZFS will use whatever it can get for its adaptive cache.
Of bigger concern hardware-wise is ECC and a UPS, though if you're serious about data integrity you'll have those already, regardless of filesystem choice.
But oddly, even though SpeedFan in Windows can find it just fine, the utility that is supposed to identify fan control ports for fancontrol cannot seem to identify my CPU fan.
The super-IO chips that usually do temperature sensing and fan speed control require drivers like anything else, and there's no standard for how they're configured so motherboard manufacturers tend to just do their own thing... With total indifference toward GNU/Linux, as usual.
What does sensors-detect say, and what nodes do you get in /sys/class/hwmon/ after you load the modules it suggests?
If you get some pwm[x] nodes (and they work), you should be able to test response by echoing values into them and reading rpm back on the corresponding fan[x]_input (pretty much what pwmconfig does).
Names may vary, as may accepted ranges and scaling. Again, total lack of standards. Some inputs might be complete garbage, because the motherboard manufacturer didn't bother to document what those pins are connected to... or connect them at all.
At any rate, have a poke around in /sys/class/hwmon or /sys/devices/platform/[chip_id]/, and hit up the lm-sensors docs and/or github for details (or complaints about lack of support).
Note lm-sensors doesn't actually provide any hardware drivers itself (but it usually gets the blame when things don't work), those are shipped with the kernel. If sensors-detect doesn't find anything useful and you can't find an appropriate module to load yourself either, start grepping the kernel sources for your super-IO chip and prepare for a trip down the proverbial rabbit hole...
I'm wondering if this might be fixable by somehow tell pwmconfig to wait longer, like maybe 15-20 seconds. Is it possible to do this?
Both pwmconfig and fancontrol are shell scripts. Simply edit to taste.
How do people here (presuming most of you are MS-free and rely on Linux or other independent OSes) store their personal data? On your PCs? Or do you have independent storage using something like FreeNAS?
On a Devuan-powered server, of course. ![]()
More specifically, on a largish (24TB usable) RAIDZ6 pool, served via NFS, SMB, and nextcloud. That machine lives in my house, where it should.
No Google, no Microsoft, no random "cloud" filestores. Includes webmail, dropbox-like filehosting & link sharing, PIM (contacts, calendar, tasks, notes) synchronisation to desktop and mobile, browser bookmark sync, password management, automated full-system backups for several other machines, the whole nine yards.
All my data would have to move from NTFS, which is at least stable for all these years, to something else.
It doesn't have to, but it's probably a good idea.
Is EXT4 a good FS for storing large amounts of data? Despite the claim that Linux does not need defrag, it eventually does when you have drives filled close to capacity and are gradually adding and deleting files (as you do with personal archives). Does EXT4 have defrag? Does any *ix FS have defrag?
There used to be a couple of defragmentation tools for ext4, but in 20+ years as a GNU/Linux user and unrepentant data-hoarder, I've never needed or wanted them.
Yes, you will get some fragmentation if you run your storage at 90+% capacity. The easiest answer is "don't do that", but even if you do the performance impact is nothing like the nightmare you get on a fragmented NTFS volume.
Is some other FS considered best for long-term storage of personal data?
I will plug ZFS at any opportunity. It's kinda heavy on hardware requirements (particularly memory if you want good performance), but it more than makes up for that in featureset, reliability, and data integrity. No other filesystem comes even remotely close.
If you don't want to deal with ZFS (and out-of tree kernel modules), there's nothing wrong with ext4 on top of RAID and/or a sensible backup strategy either.
Does anyone with experience moving their 'lives' from the MS Kiosk to something else have any thoughts?
I never really had a life in the MS ecosystem, at least not the way it is now. The last version of Windows that stored any of my personal data was '98.
To be fair, I do still have an XP install on my old netbook, but that's strictly a tool for dealing with ancient hardware and holds no personal information whatsoever.
I run mine with ext4. Some specialists claim that zfs may be better.
Oh, but it is ![]()
I have started my file server nearly 20 years ago based on Sarge
23-ish years here, and mine started out as a Slackware install, on a 486, in a (literal) pizza box.
Now it's an ebay-special dual xeon, shoehorned into a desktop case. New times, same old recycled hardware policy. ![]()
I don't care about defrag, thats a Windows topic for me nowadays. I see no need to care ...
Indeed. Seconded.
Anyone here using DMA on their Devuan system?
Yes.
What a truly horrifying idea.
If you really want to break your system, nothing much has changed recently regards apt-pinning and /etc/apt/preferences still works.
Personally I use something like
Package: *
Pin: release n=<release codename>
Pin-Priority: 1If I need something from another release.
But that something is going to be a small package with no major dependencies, and I'm going to watch apt like a hawk to make sure nothing else gets pulled in... because I like my system non-borked. I expect trying it with a behemoth like gnome would be a total disaster.
any recommendations? Im thinking possibly WD or maybe Samsung.
I'm running 5 samsungs, 4 kingstons, 2 intels, an ancient OCZ, and a couple of random (micron OEMs IIRC) drives in various applications ATM, and I haven't had any problems with any of them... Besides a couple of the kingstons griping about being out of write endurance, but then they've been doing that for about 6 months now and they're still working fine.
That's a very small sample size of course, but the samsungs and kingstons regularly get the same kind of thrashing that killed those crucial drives, and they don't even blink.
I don't know anything about WD SSDs since I've never owned one, and as far as Gigabyte goes... TBH I'm pretty biased there. I've considered anything Gigabyte to be pure refuse since about 2004, and I don't know if quality has improved in the intervening years because I haven't bought from them since.
If I had to pick, I'd probably say Samsung or Intel of you want performance, and Kingston if you want dirt cheap without being completely horrible. But I'd also say take with a large grain of salt, because I don't have any real data to back it up.
Anyone ever had this happen?
Yup, and it was a Crucial as well. Overheated and died under a sustained write workload despite being in a fan-cooled drive cage that didn't exceed 25C ambient.
Is there any performance difference between partition-swap and file-swap?
On an SSD, probably not, assuming you're using a non-exotic filesystem. On a mechanical HDD, the traditional reasons for using a swap partition are avoiding fragmentation (and thus expensive head seeks) and the ability to place the swap partition on the fastest part of the disk (pi and RPM vs linear velocity and all that).
@p.H over at the Debian forums maintains that swap files are a dirty hack because swap is designed to operate on block devices and they seem to know what they're talking about.
It certainly was, and he sure does.
My (admittedly fairly limited) real-world tests don't show any performance penalty for swap files though, at least not on an ext4 formatted SSD. Swap files have been a thing for many years, so I'd expect most of the bees are ironed out by now.
The fact that btrfs has only recently gained the ability to support swap files would seem to confirm this.
TBF, BTRFS is a COW filesystem. Swap files on COW filesystems are always going to need explicit support from the FS, and are always going to be a hack.
If running BTRFS (or ZFS), I'd go with a swap partition any day. Ideally more than one and on different devices so they can stripe.
As far as the terminal and such goes, set and export the LANG (and/or other related vars, see man 7 environ and man 7 locale) environment variable somewhere in your profile or shell rc files, same as on Debian.
I don't know what DE or other graphical stuff you're running, so I can't really comment on that.
As I said, the packages from tdrnetworks need a higher priority. The whole point of that repo is providing php-fpm & co without systemd deps.
~$ apt-cache policy php7.4-fpm
php7.4-fpm:
Installed: 7.4.22-1+devuan3~1
Candidate: 7.4.22-1+devuan3~1
Version table:
7.4.23-1+0~20210826.50+debian10~1.gbpb41c6a 200
200 https://packages.sury.org/php buster/main amd64 Packages
*** 7.4.22-1+devuan3~1 500
500 https://pkgs.tdrnetworks.com/apt/devuan beowulf/main amd64 Packages
100 /var/lib/dpkg/statusIt recommended for NextCloud
I'm running nextcloud on beowulf, with PHP 7.4.
The trick is that pkgs.tdrnetworks doesn't include everything, so you'll need packages.sury.org in your sources as well, i.e.
deb https://packages.sury.org/php/ buster main
deb https://pkgs.tdrnetworks.com/apt/devuan beowulf mainYou'll likely also want something like:
Package: *
Pin: release o=deb.sury.org
Pin-Priority: 200(or any priority lower than that assigned to tdrnetworks) in /etc/apt/preferences so the fixed packages take precedence, and stuff from sury.org is only pulled in if it doesn't exist elsewhere.
Artix Linux slipped under my radar, I never heard of it before. It looks like a good distro.
I tried it for a while, when I was looking for a systemd-free distro for my desktop and Devuan was still woefully behind even Debian stable WRT package versions.
It was nice in it's default setup, but anything beyond that ran afoul of the Artix repos being slim pickings, and compatibility (read sync) with the upstream Arch repos, even for init-unrelated things, being a constant source of pain.
The library version incompatibility problems actually reminded me of early-days (2006-2008) Arch itself... And the reasons I stopped using it.
If you do try it, I'd be interested to hear how (and if) it's matured. I might give it a spin again one day.
Claws on my XFCE netbook, Kmail on my KDE desktop, and roundcube webmail if I'm working remotely. All talking to my self-hosted (devuan, obviously
) imap server.
Right, now we're backing away from "You're mentally sick" with an apology?
Frankly, I expect you've thoroughly burned your bridges here already. You started this. You started swearing and rubbishing the Devuan devs while people were trying to help you. You then resorted to personal attacks.
Others might be more inclined to forgive this little tantrum, but I'm certainly not going to bother talking to you any more. I'm sure as hell not going to engage in the little game of semantic trolling you seem to be trying to start with your last wall of text.
As a wise man once said, plonk.
That took on a renewed importance @2012 when the previous "play nice with n00bs" policy was implemented at FDN and there was a substantial exodus from FDN to DUF
Yeah, I do remember that. I kinda arrived at FDN just as or just before many of the more knowledgable users left.
I also remember when FDN was literally a server under someone's desk, run entirely without interference from the Debian devs.
Now it feels like there's all of about 5 people over there who know what they're talking about and still try to help, and the rest is a windows-noob echo-chamber.
Personally I don't mind noobs per-se, but there's a level of pigheaded unwillingness to self-help which makes me far more inclined to just chill with some popcorn.
Between the latest iteration of the "be nice" CoC, the social-media forum "upgrades" complete with "likes", and the unending torrent of frankly terrible advice from the blind leading the blind... Let's just say it saps ones will to engage constructively.
I absolutely do not want to see the same happen here. If Devuan is indeed "hurting it's own cause" by not being as easy for lazy windows-refugees as Ubuntu, that's totally fine.
I'd much prefer to converse with a handful of motivated users than a horde of lazy people expecting a free edition of Windows anyway.
IME the latter is easily identifiable by their belief that they're owed something just by using the distro, and that market-share matters to anyone. OP looks like a pretty good case in point to me.
Whatever happened to the old "Leave your commercial software expectation baggage at the door, and roll up your sleeves because you'll need to get your hands dirty" adage anyway?
Many have landed here . . .
True, though many more have seemingly just vanished.
nobody knows what FDN means it's called debian forums
No, it's not. forums.debian.net is logically abbreviated to FDN, always has been, always will be.
You're mentally sick
And you're obnoxious.
I was treated with disrespect
A) No, you weren't.
B) If you want respect, earn it. Like everyone else does.
Why do you use LOL? Isn't that a social-media herd sociology thing?
LOL was in use on BBS systems in the late '80s. You're clearly too young to remember.
hundreds of posts on Debian forums which I suppose you're capable of answering but you never do.
Speaking only for myself of course, I've given up on FDN. The sheer scale of the help vampire infestation is depressing.
With the place so full of people who both expect some kind of special treatment (i.e. didn't read the "no warranty" clause in the installer and expect the equivalent of paid support for free), and can't be bothered with even elementary netiquette (e.g. not posting huge images of text), I'm surprised any help goes on there at all.
a distro which by default blocks networking and remains untested and unnoticed for god know how long does not have my respect.
What makes you think Devuan wants respect from the likes of you anyhow?
Forcing a single desktop upon users (which is in itself not a problem) while providing the illusion of choice (tasksel) also does not have my respect.
Devuan ships a well-tested default desktop configuration with sane choices specifically for people who don't know what they're doing (or what they want).
If you deviate from that, you're expected to pay attention to what software you install. This is neither new, nor unusual.
And again with this "your respect" thing... As if that's something to be desired. You clearly expect people to respect your opinions and time, yet you give nothing back.
How about "respect" for the unpaid volunteers who made Devuan a thing to begin with, huh? Where's your contribution that entitles you to be so critical?
The developers know for a fact that devuan+xfce is the only tested option, why provide tasksel?
Just to screw with self-important tools like yourself, obviously. ![]()
Devuan cost me 2 days plus 1 day to return for debian 10 plus maybe 14~ GB total of my monthly data cap, which is highly expensive here in Egypt.
Your poor choices and lack of prior research cost you time and data. Devuan is free.
You're literally a lying pig.
I looked the other way when you made similar accusations and generally acted like a spoilt brat over on FDN. I'll not do so again.
Nobody here owes you anything. The Devuan developers don't owe you anything either.
The door is right over there, if you don't like this distro then I suggest you use it.
I have the right to feel mad.
You have the right to do whatever you like... But kindly do your trolling somewhere far away from here.
As for your initial problem, it takes all of a few seconds to install rfkill from the installation media. That's why it's on the installation media.
Shock and horror, some people installing Devuan aren't intending to use it on a laptop, or as a desktop. They don't need rfkill or any other wireless networking bloat, so installing it by default when the desktop task isn't selected would be counterproductive.
On the whole, if you're more interested in obnoxious ranting than in solving your own problems, I suggest you go back to one of the "easy-mode" desktop-oriented distros, like Ubuntu.
You've already shown that you can't handle IRC, have problems with people expressing real feelings, and consider such banal things as edit history "harassment". Has it occurred to you that it may be your attitude which is the problem, rather than pretty much the entire FOSS community (which got along fine without you the last ~25 years)?
I was actually going to say "Welcome to Devuan" when I saw you over here... That is until I read your latest asinine ranting.
I'll not make that mistake again. If you want to behave like a child, do it elsewhere.
PSA @ everyone else: This user has a history of kicking up a fuss over nothing, policing other people's language and attitude while acting like a spoilt brat and slinging personal insults themself, and borderline trolling WRT systemd over on FDN.
I honestly suggest the best course is to simply ignore them from here on in, or at least until the entitled attitude improves.
All "modern" DEs simply fall flat when it comes to configurability.
IME KDE5/Plasma isn't too bad. It's not quite as configurable as KDE3 was, but it's pretty flexible and can certainly still be set up for the traditional desktop paradigm.
I can't really comment on it's "lightness" WRT Debian/Devuan, but it's pretty light over here on Gentoo. There are advantages to compiling in only the stuff you actually want.
GNOME on the other hand... I've never understood the direction GNOME went, and it gets more bizarre with every release.
Please take into account that my Devuan ASCII is capable to run relatively modern software from its repository and ZFS 0.8.6 from more recent Debian releases, many WINE version till the latest, many Windows compatible programs like Microsoft Office, Far, IrfanView, DotNet tools like DevArt Entity Developer.
You did notice the [razz] on the end of my post, right? Here, I'll do it again for good measure ![]()
Then again, I'm not really sure why one would want to run ASCII with a bunch of backports now that Beowulf is stable... Does TDE not build on Beowulf or something?
Do you also need an old distro or is it possible to do on Devuan?
Slackware 7.1. Same as I ran back in the day when my daily driver was similar hardware.
Modern Debian/Devuan is far to fat for the box in question. Even a CLI-only install would be barely usable, and modern X is a no-show as proper support for the GPU chipset disappeared somewhere around 2002...
AFAIK the latest distro that still has the required XFree86 3.x is Slackware 8.1, but that ships KDE 3.0.something, and I don't think KDE3.x is going to be much fun with a 100Mhz CPU.
Also modern Devuan kernels do not fit on floppy disks, and the old IDE driver for the VLB chipset is gone too. ![]()
It's probably possible to run KDE1.x on a modern distro though, for some definition of possible... I expect it would need some patching for compiler / libc changes at the very least.
the desktop with OS (including ZFS) consumes only 1Gb
Bloat!
Slackware 7.1 consumes <4MB RAM at the CLI with default services loaded, and somewhere around 18MB at a KDE 1.1 desktop. ![]()
As much as I loved KDE3 back in the day, the setup in those screenshots is way, way to busy and far too... Lime for my taste.
No offence, that's just me, I kinda have a thing about 900 icons all over the place when there's a perfectly good application menu to be had.
Each to their own I guess.
On a semi-related note, I just recently installed KDE1.1 on one of my retro-boxen.
IMO the default setup there needs a bunch of redundant icons removed from the panels to not be a visually-overwhelming mess as well... Just like I remember doing in 1999.
I even got a pre-insanity GNOME up and running, a fully configurable and completely nautilus-free experience if you will. It's kinda nice too.