Network Issue With Devuan

Jakoline · 2021-08-26 11:00:54

Yesterday I installed Devuan 3.1 using the netinstall iso, when tasksel dialogue appeared I unticked all of the desktop environment options, this is intentional because I wanted to boot into a clean minimal system so I can then install and configure my desktop exactly the way I like it. I did this before with Debian.

The issue is that I found myself unable to put my network interface up because it was soft-killed by default

SIOCSIFFLAGS: Operation not possible due to RF-kill

And I couldn't use rfkill to unblock it because rfkill WAS NOT INSTALLED!

$ rfkill unblock wifi; rfkill unblock all
rfkill: command not found

Any help is appreciated.

Last edited by Jakoline (2021-08-26 11:28:07)

ralph.ronnquist · 2021-08-26 12:27:32

Assuming the installer brought up the network, one way forward for you would be to start another installation but stop before partitioning; i.e., DON'T partition and instead use ctrl-alt-f2 to gain a shell.

In that shell, you first mount the previously installed file system partition, then chroot into that, and then install rfkill.

After the successful installation of rfkill, you should exit the chroot, unmount the partition, and then reboot into the previously installed system, now with rfkill installed.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-08-26 13:51:30

Jakoline wrote:

rfkill WAS NOT INSTALLED!

Are you sure? Did you try

/usr/sbin/rfkill

Or perhaps even

man rfkill

See also

echo $PATH

andyprough · 2021-08-27 04:59:36

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Jakoline wrote:
rfkill WAS NOT INSTALLED!
Are you sure? Did you try
/usr/sbin/rfkill
Or perhaps even
man rfkill
See also
echo $PATH

It's in /usr/sbin/rfkill

Run it as root:

$ rfkill unblock wifi; rfkill unblock all

Should work now.

Ogis1975 · 2021-08-27 11:43:48

rfkill unblock wifi; rfkill unblock all

must run as root, or super user (sudo).

ralph.ronnquist · 2021-08-27 13:34:54

@Jakoline I checked it out, and the rfkill package is actually in the ISO pool although not installed without DE. So the easier path would be to mount the ISO on, say, /mnt and then run

# dpkg -i $(find /mnt/pool -name \*rfkill\* )

(as root) to install it.

Thereafter you may follow the above good advice as to how to use it.

Jakoline · 2021-08-28 14:14:51

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

@Jakoline I checked it out, and the rfkill package is actually in the ISO pool although not installed without DE. So the easier path would be to mount the ISO on, say, /mnt and then run
# dpkg -i $(find /mnt/pool -name \*rfkill\* )
(as root) to install it.

1- rf-kill was present at the time of installation on the cd/usb and the installer used it to soft-kill my networking before finalizing, WHY? This only happens if I use wifi at installation time.

2- Devuan boots into a system literally in an unusable state, Networking is blocked and the program that can unblock it is not there!
Devuan is published to the public as "stable" without even the minimal amount of testing. This should have been noticed immediately but apparently it's makers do not even use it.

3- The applications menu is filled with command-line tools and games that won't launch, they're expecting xfce terminal which wasn't there because I prefer LXQt (qterminal) god forbidden.

4- When I was registering my account on this forum the validation question was "What is the default desktop in Devuan? (xfce)". Why provide tasksel if you're into xfce that much? Forcing one desktop environment to the extent of putting it as a registration question is called being an asshole.

5- They removed the four free-software principles from the home page and instead started distributing isos with non-free firmware packaged inside.

6- Two days wasted. you're harming your own cause, you're making it look as if removing systemd causes a ton of trouble which is not true the devs just suck at configuring the system.

7- I remember I saw somewhere on the dyne.org website how much they were happy that Stallman was gone from the FSF and that his absence will eradicate machismo and allow decentralized decision making, then who made the decision of considering xfce the official desktop? Was it put to vote? I doubt it

8- Who pushed it so far to the extent of putting it as a registration question? (either users admit that xfce is our official desktop or they're not allowed inside)

Like the fucking thing wasn't even tested, who does that? and who calls that stable?

I'm so tired I can't even rant properly.

No more Devuan for me

To developers: fix your garbage before releasing it into the cyber-space. providing non-free firmware for wifi INSIDE THE CD doesn't really help when you block networking.

PS: devuan pkginfo website works the same way devuan itself works (broken and useless)

Last edited by Jakoline (2021-08-28 14:31:37)

golinux · 2021-08-28 15:22:13

@Jakoline . . . LOL! Have you ever considered that perhaps it is you that is broken and useless? From your posts at FDN, I suspected your presence here would quickly become adversarial. Feel free to move on. Byeeeeeeeeee . . .

larsH · 2021-08-28 16:00:57

Hi

I think all this was down to su vs su - (and the allter is what should be used to get full path

Have a nice day

Jakoline · 2021-08-28 16:03:18

golinux wrote:

@Jakoline . . . LOL! Have you ever considered that perhaps it is you that is broken and useless? From your posts at FDN, I suspected your presence here would quickly become adversarial. Feel free to move on. Byeeeeeeeeee . . .

- You're mentally sick, my posts at debian forums (nobody knows what FDN means it's called debian forums) were nothing but helpful, I provided help to other users whenever I could and I sometimes installed and examined software that I don't even use just to provide support for 'em.

- Even when I was treated with disrespect I continued to provide support, I'm referring to the user that asked about gnome-software alternatives.

- I spend time uploading screenshots to people who I feel are beginners and might need visuals to understand things.

- The post you're referring to is the same post you where you ranted against Facebook users.

- I mentioned you for further explanation at debian forums but you refused to reply, you wanted to look like the cool kid who drops his opinions and leaves.

- Why do you use LOL? Isn't that a social-media herd sociology thing?

- You see hundreds of posts on Debian forums which I suppose you're capable of answering but you never do.

- Bugs are reported to projects which are promising, devuan doesn't look promising, a distro which by default blocks networking and remains untested and unnoticed for god know how long does not have my respect.

- Do you even understand what that jargon means?

- Forcing a single desktop upon users (which is in itself not a problem) while providing the illusion of choice (tasksel) also does not have my respect.

- The developers know for a fact that devuan+xfce is the only tested option, why provide tasksel?

- Devuan cost me 2 days plus 1 day to return for debian 10 plus maybe 14~ GB total of my monthly data cap, which is highly expensive here in Egypt.

- You appeared instantly trying to degrade me but you looked the other way when I needed assistance, and you do the same at debian forums.

- You're literally a lying pig.

- Next time respond logically to points.

- I have the right to feel mad.

Last edited by Jakoline (2021-08-28 16:07:17)

larsH · 2021-08-28 16:09:34

Hi

Please relax or take a break. This tone is not friendly at all. And then it is best to say nothing until calmed down a bit.

Take the evening off
Lars H

golinux · 2021-08-28 16:14:56

@Jakoline . . .

FDN = Forums.Debian.Net

Feel free to move on . . .

MiyoLinux · 2021-08-28 16:41:37

You're literally a lying pig.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

When I was 12 years old, I shot myself in my big toe (with a BB Gun) to see if it would hurt.

It did...

...a lot!

Head_on_a_Stick · 2021-08-28 17:13:13

@Jakoline: I've just tested the Debian bullseye netinstall image and that doesn't seem to install rfkill if no desktop is selected in tasksel. Have you considered reporting this to Debian?

And for general reference:

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Assuming the installer brought up the network, one way forward for you would be to start another installation but stop before partitioning; i.e., DON'T partition and instead use ctrl-alt-f2 to gain a shell.
In that shell, you first mount the previously installed file system partition, then chroot into that, and then install rfkill.

The Devuan beowulf netinstall ISO includes a "Rescue Mode" available from the "Advanced Options" boot sub-menu — this can be used to open a shell in an installed system without needing to mess around with chroot (or arch-chroot(8)).

More details on this here: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/ … 06.en.html

steve_v · 2021-08-28 17:52:11

Jakoline wrote:

nobody knows what FDN means it's called debian forums

No, it's not. forums.debian.net is logically abbreviated to FDN, always has been, always will be.

Jakoline wrote:

You're mentally sick

And you're obnoxious.

Jakoline wrote:

I was treated with disrespect

A) No, you weren't.
B) If you want respect, earn it. Like everyone else does.

Jakoline wrote:

Why do you use LOL? Isn't that a social-media herd sociology thing?

LOL was in use on BBS systems in the late '80s. You're clearly too young to remember.

Jakoline wrote:

hundreds of posts on Debian forums which I suppose you're capable of answering but you never do.

Speaking only for myself of course, I've given up on FDN. The sheer scale of the help vampire infestation is depressing.
With the place so full of people who both expect some kind of special treatment (i.e. didn't read the "no warranty" clause in the installer and expect the equivalent of paid support for free), and can't be bothered with even elementary netiquette (e.g. not posting huge images of text), I'm surprised any help goes on there at all.

Jakoline wrote:

a distro which by default blocks networking and remains untested and unnoticed for god know how long does not have my respect.

What makes you think Devuan wants respect from the likes of you anyhow?

Jakoline wrote:

Forcing a single desktop upon users (which is in itself not a problem) while providing the illusion of choice (tasksel) also does not have my respect.

Devuan ships a well-tested default desktop configuration with sane choices specifically for people who don't know what they're doing (or what they want).
If you deviate from that, you're expected to pay attention to what software you install. This is neither new, nor unusual.

And again with this "your respect" thing... As if that's something to be desired. You clearly expect people to respect your opinions and time, yet you give nothing back.
How about "respect" for the unpaid volunteers who made Devuan a thing to begin with, huh? Where's your contribution that entitles you to be so critical?

Jakoline wrote:

The developers know for a fact that devuan+xfce is the only tested option, why provide tasksel?

Just to screw with self-important tools like yourself, obviously.

Jakoline wrote:

Devuan cost me 2 days plus 1 day to return for debian 10 plus maybe 14~ GB total of my monthly data cap, which is highly expensive here in Egypt.

Your poor choices and lack of prior research cost you time and data. Devuan is free.

Jakoline wrote:

You're literally a lying pig.

I looked the other way when you made similar accusations and generally acted like a spoilt brat over on FDN. I'll not do so again.
Nobody here owes you anything. The Devuan developers don't owe you anything either.
The door is right over there, if you don't like this distro then I suggest you use it.

Jakoline wrote:

I have the right to feel mad.

You have the right to do whatever you like... But kindly do your trolling somewhere far away from here.

As for your initial problem, it takes all of a few seconds to install rfkill from the installation media. That's why it's on the installation media.
Shock and horror, some people installing Devuan aren't intending to use it on a laptop, or as a desktop. They don't need rfkill or any other wireless networking bloat, so installing it by default when the desktop task isn't selected would be counterproductive.

On the whole, if you're more interested in obnoxious ranting than in solving your own problems, I suggest you go back to one of the "easy-mode" desktop-oriented distros, like Ubuntu.

You've already shown that you can't handle IRC, have problems with people expressing real feelings, and consider such banal things as edit history "harassment". Has it occurred to you that it may be your attitude which is the problem, rather than pretty much the entire FOSS community (which got along fine without you the last ~25 years)?

I was actually going to say "Welcome to Devuan" when I saw you over here... That is until I read your latest asinine ranting.
I'll not make that mistake again. If you want to behave like a child, do it elsewhere.

PSA @ everyone else: This user has a history of kicking up a fuss over nothing, policing other people's language and attitude while acting like a spoilt brat and slinging personal insults themself, and borderline trolling WRT systemd over on FDN.
I honestly suggest the best course is to simply ignore them from here on in, or at least until the entitled attitude improves.

Last edited by steve_v (2021-08-28 18:07:41)

MiyoLinux · 2021-08-28 18:04:47

Jakoline wrote:

- Devuan cost me 2 days plus 1 day to return for debian 10 plus maybe 14~ GB total of my monthly data cap, which is highly expensive here in Egypt.

Please don't blame Devuan for the choices that YOU make.

golinux · 2021-08-28 19:27:02

steve_v wrote:

Jakoline wrote:
nobody knows what FDN means it's called debian forums
No, it's not. forums.debian.net is logically abbreviated to FDN, always has been, always will be.

That took on a renewed importance @2012 when the previous "play nice with n00bs" policy was implemented at FDN and there was a substantial exodus from FDN to DUF aka the Debian User Forums which was only mothballed recently because we all found other sandboxes in which to play. Many have landed here . . .

steve_v · 2021-08-28 20:28:17

golinux wrote:

That took on a renewed importance @2012 when the previous "play nice with n00bs" policy was implemented at FDN and there was a substantial exodus from FDN to DUF

Yeah, I do remember that. I kinda arrived at FDN just as or just before many of the more knowledgable users left.
I also remember when FDN was literally a server under someone's desk, run entirely without interference from the Debian devs.

Now it feels like there's all of about 5 people over there who know what they're talking about and still try to help, and the rest is a windows-noob echo-chamber.
Personally I don't mind noobs per-se, but there's a level of pigheaded unwillingness to self-help which makes me far more inclined to just chill with some popcorn.

Between the latest iteration of the "be nice" CoC, the social-media forum "upgrades" complete with "likes", and the unending torrent of frankly terrible advice from the blind leading the blind... Let's just say it saps ones will to engage constructively.

I absolutely do not want to see the same happen here. If Devuan is indeed "hurting it's own cause" by not being as easy for lazy windows-refugees as Ubuntu, that's totally fine.
I'd much prefer to converse with a handful of motivated users than a horde of lazy people expecting a free edition of Windows anyway.
IME the latter is easily identifiable by their belief that they're owed something just by using the distro, and that market-share matters to anyone. OP looks like a pretty good case in point to me.

Whatever happened to the old "Leave your commercial software expectation baggage at the door, and roll up your sleeves because you'll need to get your hands dirty" adage anyway?

golinux wrote:

Many have landed here . . .

True, though many more have seemingly just vanished.

Last edited by steve_v (2021-08-28 20:30:47)

golinux · 2021-08-28 20:39:00

steve_v wrote:

golinux wrote:
Many have landed here . . .
True, though many more have seemingly just vanished.

Many have left the debian-based ecosystem entirely. I'm hoping it can hang together in a usable state till the end of my years on this imploding rock hurtling through space and time . . .

golinux · 2021-08-28 20:51:15

@Jakoline . . .To get back on-topic . . .

As per Head_on_a_Stick's post above, the behavior you described is present in the Debian installer so please file a bug with Debian if you would like that behavior changed.

Jakoline · 2021-08-28 21:58:45

To user steve_v:

forums.debian.net is logically abbreviated to FDN, always has been, always will be.

The only result I'm getting for FDN is "First Trust Dow Jones Internet Index Fund" and other finance related results

Is taking the first letter of each word is enough to create an abbreviation?

TDP = The Devuan Project
DBTS = Devuan Bug Tracking System

Abbreviations has to be common otherwise nobody will understand it.

A) No, you weren't

Do you even know which post I'm talking about?

B) If you want respect, earn it. Like everyone else does.

Are you saying I can insult anyone because they have not reached my criteria level of respect yet? Earn it how? When do I know that I've earned enough respect according to you? Do I have to check with you each month? Should we put it to vote and see if I can pass 75% of positive votes?

Like everyone else does how? Can you show me examples? What if respectful people to you are dishonorable to me?

If you don't like this distro then I suggest you use it

I can act like you and point at your typo which would benefit me especially in this situation, but I won't

LOL was in use on BBS systems in the late '80s. You're clearly too young to remember

Does being young/old has to do with being wrong/right?
It's an insult in the world of modern social-media and that's all I care about, that's why he used it, and he called other names.

With the place so full of people who both expect some kind of special treatment (i.e. didn't read the "no warranty" clause in the installer and expect the equivalent of paid support for free), and can't be bothered with even elementary netiquette (e.g. not posting huge images of text)

Images of text is needed to ask about boot-time errors for example, no warranty to the extent permitted by law is a legal phrase, do you see me asking for a compensation?

What makes you think Devuan wants respect from the likes of you anyhow?

Watch your mouth.

you're expected to pay attention to what software you install

I did not soft-kill my wifi, the installer did.

Devuan ships a well-tested default desktop configuration with sane choices

ten terminal games is not sane, an ASCII webcam application that I don't remember it's name is also not sane
most of the launchers in the applications menu does nothing, then it's not well-tested.

yet you give nothing back

The hours I've spent translating free software into my language & advocating free software in my local community exceeds the time you spent in front of a computer screen your whole life. I stay positive when beginners ask their questions, something you can't handle.

Your poor choices and lack of prior research cost you time and data. Devuan is free

Are you saying that Devuan is a poor choice? See? I can play your game.
Lack of research? I'm the first one to post this bug report.

I looked the other way when you made similar accusations

No, you replied to me, back then you didn't have the desire to use anything against me so you replied normal.
I was polite enough that I said "at least the ones that spoke to me" because I wanted to be accurate and not curse people who did nothing.

some people installing Devuan aren't intending to use it on a laptop, or as a desktop

If they were not intending to use it as a desktop then it must be a server, in which case networking is a must.

if you're more interested in obnoxious ranting than in solving your own problems, I suggest you go back to one of the "easy-mode" desktop-oriented distros, like Ubuntu

My problem can't be solved because I'm in a technologically strapped situation and I don't have the luxury of reinstalling Devuan again, and I don't have the luxury of virtual machines as well.

I haven't installed Ubuntu on my machine or any machine or seen Ubuntu since ages.

Bottom line is, everything you've said is meaningless, you arguments don't add-up, you flipped all the facts just because you hate to see me talking to any developer in a bad way, you are using words and terms taken from me that I've wrote in Debian forums, with the exception that I wasn't trying to gaslight anything when I said them, the opposite, I was trying to be accurate, I was trying to document information to help anyone who comes by my posts in the future.

I can reply in detail to everything you've said, but I doubt anybody will read such a long msg.

Understand that by spending two days testing with Devuan I wasted bandwidth quota and time, I procrastinated some things and had to spend time without a functional system which caused harm to me and my work in many ways, I expected the transition from Debian to another Debian-based distro to be much smoother, I also spent some money on this experiment.

Thanks to people who provided solutions AFTER OR BEFORE this incident, and thanks to the one person who asked me to relax and avoid non-friendly tone.

https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=149820
(Proves which one of us has history of being disrespectful)

Last edited by Jakoline (2021-08-28 21:59:12)

Jakoline · 2021-08-28 22:03:42

Anyways I've sent a bug report to 'submit at bugs.devuan.org' and a duplication to 'devuan-dev at lists.dyne.org'. I sent this bug report before seeing steve_v first post. Here is the full text of my 2nd (duplicated) msg:

I sent this bug report to the dedicated email but didn't receive the automated response, so I'm sending a duplication here.
Package: rfkill
Version: 2.33.1
Severity: critical
Problem:
Devuan 3.1 beowulf installer uses rfkill to BLOCK wifi networking by default on a fresh minimal installation, by minimal I mean that only 'standard system utilities' and 'print server' is chosen in tasksel, this happens in the absence of package rfkill itself which is needed to UNBLOCK networking. No internet plus no way to enable internet makes the system of no use or non-beneficial for most users.
Steps to reproduce:
1- Download and burn devuan_beowulf_3.1.1_amd64_netinstall.iso
2- boot you cd/usb and start the installer with firmware enabled
3- When asked about networking use wifi and proceed
4- When tasksel dialogue appears untick every thing and only leave 'standard system utilities' and 'print server' checked, we want a minimal installation without any desktops
5- After installation is finished remove the cd/usb and boot into your newly installed system
6- Login as root
7- Try to put your wifi interface up. You'll receive error 'SIOCSIFFLAGS: Operation not possible due to RF-kill'
8- Try using rfkill to unlock networking via command 'rfkill unblock wifi; rfkill unblock all'. Bash will tell you 'rfkill: command not found'
Expected behavior:
1- Networking should not be blocked by default, not by using rfkill nor any other method.
2- The wireless interface should be brought up by default on first boot because it was used during the installation, and my chosen wifi hotspot should also be running by default, most distros do that, they preserve the wifi configuration that was used during the installation (SSID & password), I think Debian too does it. Please investigate if it can be done in Devuan as well, for user convenience.
Note:
Strangely enough, as seen in steps to reproduce (step number 8), the tool that was used to soft-kill networking (rfkill) is actually absent from the system, meaning that it was only present during the installation and was used by the installer before shutdown and after all the work was done.
Note #2:
When using an Ethernet cable instead of wifi during installation this problem DID NOT occur.
Please see what you can do about this severe issue, maybe it's inherited from Debian, I don't know as I've never used wifi to install Debian before, I always go with the iso option that does not include non-free firmware, hence always using ethernet to install Debian, either way, please Investigate.

Last edited by Jakoline (2021-08-29 01:11:00)

golinux · 2021-08-28 22:07:26

Please stop stuffing this forum with nonsense or we will do it for you.

edit: Filing a Debian bug with Devuan will not get the "bug" you perceive fixed. File it directly with Debian.

Jakoline · 2021-08-28 22:27:49

@golinux I replied to you at the developers mailing list

The behavior of the Debian net-installer is not to install rfkill by default indeed, but is networking soft-killed in Debian by default? Because this is the reason rfkill is needed in the first place.
Read my report carefully, the expected behavior in my report IS NOT TO soft-kill (block) networking at all regardless of package rfkill, and to investigate what makes the installer behave this way ONLY WHEN wifi is used during the installation process.
Please do not ruin the bug report, leave it be.

I'm done here. If the developers wanna investigate let 'em investigate, if they wanna dismiss it let 'em dismiss it.
You sending them the link to this thread/topic is intentionally not helpful.

Jakoline · 2021-08-29 01:13:59

To @golinux:

Emotionally I'm sorry, practically booting into a system with networking blocked is serious.

I see how much Devuan means to you, and that calls for an apology.

Feel free to delete my topic if you want to. but DO CONSIDER my bug report.

Last edited by Jakoline (2021-08-29 01:15:17)

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2021-08-26 11:00:54

Network Issue With Devuan

#2 2021-08-26 12:27:32

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#3 2021-08-26 13:51:30

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#4 2021-08-27 04:59:36

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#5 2021-08-27 11:43:48

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#6 2021-08-27 13:34:54

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#7 2021-08-28 14:14:51

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#8 2021-08-28 15:22:13

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#9 2021-08-28 16:00:57

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#10 2021-08-28 16:03:18

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#11 2021-08-28 16:09:34

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#12 2021-08-28 16:14:56

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#13 2021-08-28 16:41:37

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#14 2021-08-28 17:13:13

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#15 2021-08-28 17:52:11

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#16 2021-08-28 18:04:47

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#17 2021-08-28 19:27:02

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#18 2021-08-28 20:28:17

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#19 2021-08-28 20:39:00

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#20 2021-08-28 20:51:15

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#21 2021-08-28 21:58:45

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#22 2021-08-28 22:03:42

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#23 2021-08-28 22:07:26

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#24 2021-08-28 22:27:49

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

#25 2021-08-29 01:13:59

Re: Network Issue With Devuan

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