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Those are called 'stubs' in computer science. They are put there as a deprecation to keep apps & utilities that reference them from failing catastrophically. (It's kinda like having a "guest" bedroom, but never inviting anyone to spend the night (which demonstrates that you are socially competent, but you don't actually have to go there)).
Sweet necro, its been like over 2 years... ![]()
Though why Swar also did so... idk.
Though his wasn't 2 years. ![]()
Edit: Should this be locked?
This is why I believe we need more people working on an alternative operating system such as HyperbolaBSD.
Although,  unless more people work on it, it won't be out till 2024 for the base system alone. ![]()
That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.
Dunno if that will happen though.
Only two options may exist in the not so near future, fork the linux kernel and maintain it separately or ditch linux in favor of a new solution.
I am thinking the latter may be better.
I would  ditch that software in a heartbeat. If it requires systemd as much as it does, then it must be crap. 
That being said, I am not entirely sure what its for. 
Or if there are alternatives to it. I may look later...
hmm, dunno which ones use systemd though...
But i found one named danube cloud... You tell me if its any good. ![]()
Yeah, there sure don't look like there are a lot... ![]()
steve_v wrote:I'm not a hippie, and I don't eat my toenails in public...
I only trust code from toenail eating hippies. The toenail eating has to be certified and audited.
Okay, that sounds weird...
I would be suspicious of people who eat their own toenails  because you would have to be crazy to do that. ![]()
Thus, they might have brain problems... and well ya...
![]()
Ron wrote:is Virtualbox not in the repo?
No, it's so shit that the Debian developers removed it from the stable release and won't be backporting it in future.
See https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=794466 for all the gory details.
Ogis1975 wrote:I prefer qemu-kvm
+1
Seconded...
Qemu-kvm is awesome.
Virt-maanger, is semi okay...
But, virtualbox has been crap since... well, always really... 
 
Especially when they made it depend on a non-free watcom compiler.
4.1 was the only version I ever liked even a little bit.
QEMU, FTW!
Good post steve_v, you summarized in depth what i was struggling to put into my post.
Yeah, what he said is true. I myself prefer ditching proprietary hardware when possible.
Otherwise it dies fast and it leaks an insane amount of information.
Anything that is proprietary should not have any secrets on it. Meaning stuff your not willing to let out to the world.
Because proprietary is insecure and invasive by default and sometimes even, no matter what... ![]()
zapper wrote:dice wrote:I have some old hardware i use on a daily basis with devuan, lately ive found that if i use anything bleeding edge like archlinux, voidlinux, artixlinux, i will get complete lockups/freezes but using devuan stable, debian stable my old machine runs fine. I cant figure this out. I have been running the backported 5.9 kernel for a few days with no issues, yet if i run archlinux linux-lts or even in voidlinux the 4.19 kernel it will just lockup/freeze unable ssh or get a tty. Might be time to update but as long as devuan still works i dont see a reason too, im hoping when chimeara becomes stable i wont have these issues and can run the computer for another few years.
Small problem, voidlinux isn't bleeding edge, its rolling release with a focus on stability.
So I guess you could say its semi rolling release. I think? I haven't used it a whole lot, but, I also noticed that using musl's voidlinux is a little more buggy.
Yeah it says stable rolling release, for me not so stable and this was not the musl variation but the glibc variation via netinstall (yes it can be done in voidlinux, similar to the arch way). I installed it the other day and no word of a lie the computer froze in the first 2 minutes. Basic xfce4 install. Im not about to complain to them though, the laptop i tested it on is ten years old. Anyhow i might be able to get my hands on a later model laptop from 2015/16, a lenovo x250 - i5, has a tiny screen though at 13.3 inches, im used to 15 inches on my toshiba sat.
Might be time to say goodbye to the toshiba, but i live in hope of making this thing work for 15 years, hopefully devuan can get me there
Edit: i have an even older dell laptop from around 2008 that is now happily buzzing away streaming some youtube at low res using slitaz linux, pretty sure it will last another 2 - 3 years with a battery upgrade.
Why not get something you can have without the intel me or amd psp?
Such as a thinkpad x230 with coreboot and intel me neutered?
I have such a device, and it runs very fast. Like it can handle 3x the load of my thinkpad x200 at least and its maybe 4x faster. ![]()
Just my two cents regarding what you should get.
And in the later future you could wait for something more open source friendly such as mnt reform or that balthazar laptop from balthazar.space
That would have risc-v, so it might be 3 or more years away from happening. I  bet a risc-v laptop that's 90% freedom friendly hardware with few backdoors, will be out by the time HyperbolaBSD is out. ![]()
Aka, 2024 or later. ![]()
My bad though, im getting off topic.
Ath9k + intel me neutered + coreboot or retroboot when that is out for the thinkpad x230, is a good fit. Your choice, but I myself enjoy it.
Till someone learns how to remove the intel me code on it completely, I will probably use it for light gaming. ![]()
manyroads wrote:I personally am devoted to breaking anything I am able and to using obtuse desktops where possible.
Exactly - a distro is no good unless I can drive it like a car right over a cliff and leave it in a pile of flames and smoking wreckage at the bottom. Which is why I really despise MX and Devuan - no matter how hard I beat on them they simply recover gracefully. Very frustrating.
Try VoidLinux or artixlinux then...
Voidlinux is semi stable in my experience, but artix is bleeding edge so... if you want crashes, breakages thats your gem. ![]()
I have some old hardware i use on a daily basis with devuan, lately ive found that if i use anything bleeding edge like archlinux, voidlinux, artixlinux, i will get complete lockups/freezes but using devuan stable, debian stable my old machine runs fine. I cant figure this out. I have been running the backported 5.9 kernel for a few days with no issues, yet if i run archlinux linux-lts or even in voidlinux the 4.19 kernel it will just lockup/freeze unable ssh or get a tty. Might be time to update but as long as devuan still works i dont see a reason too, im hoping when chimeara becomes stable i wont have these issues and can run the computer for another few years.
Small problem, voidlinux isn't bleeding edge, its rolling release with a focus on stability.
So I guess you could say its semi rolling release. I think? I haven't used it a whole lot, but, I also noticed that using musl's voidlinux is a little more buggy.
More importantly though, I also noticed that connman is the easiest interface to get started for voidlinux.
Depends also though how it is installed on your comp too though.
But yeah, Archlinux can be a mess. Dunno about Artixlinux though... probably similar though
Warning about void though, if your laptop doesn't need non-free crap, just forcibly remove it. I had no issues as long as it is a libreboot or coreboot + me cleaned device.
Otherwise, you very likely need to keep it. 
A side note though, libreboot is being rebranded in the future...
![]()
Actually just a small edit, the first time I installed voidlinux which was sometime between 2014-2018 or something like that, there were small bugs if you wanted to use certain apps,
That's about it though. I have a feeling they improved it vastly since then.
@zapper
Point taken, but:
- One only learns these things after one pays for it.
- ExpressVPN also has a problem with Manjaro, as they only test with Arch and expect Manjaro users to accept AUR.
- I first used ProtonVPN, but its commands require sudo while ExpressVPN commands do not. ProtonVPN eliminated its servers in my home city, which makes it problematic for websites requiring local login (Hotmail and my bank's website did not appreciate that).Which VPNs are known to be compatible with Devuan?
I agree with your first point. 
As for your second, I don't know much about that.
And for your third point, I don't have too much knowledge at the moment.  I don't really use a vpn other than cryptostorm. But I use the free version, not the paid version. I am not sure how well the paid version would work though. ![]()
I should add though, I also, A don't use hotmail and B, I don't use a vpn when logging into bank accounts usually. ![]()
Is Expressvpn a vpn that is privacy friendly?
I know none of them have zero logs and that is a lie that any use zero logs, but I wondered if you just use it for censorship bypassing or privacy altogether.
Regardless though, the fact it relies on system dumb makes me suspicious of them. Seems a bit corrupt to me. If you using it for censorship bypassing though, your set probably. Privacy though... I dunno.
PS, there are better emails out there that are actually more open source and free at the same time. Disroot.org for example is one I use.
I dunno when they accepting new accounts, but its worth checking. ![]()
Unless you need hotmail for work or something else. Which is very possible.
zapper wrote:The mei module and the hdcp modules
They're both open source and they're not loaded unless you need them.
zapper wrote:how to disable that stuff
Create a file at /etc/modprobe.d/block_nasties.conf with this content:
install mei /bin/true install mei-hdcp /bin/true^ That will stop the modules from ever being loaded.
EDIT: see https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/driver-api/mei/ for an explanation of the kernel interface for the management engine.
Hmm, well, they try to load when I used devuan's kernel despite the intel me being disabled.  And my laptop has no problem with the linux-libre kernel... so idk if what you said is accurate, but perhaps it gives some advantage. 
As for if they are open source, meh... I heard bad things about both, so I see no need to keep them on. 
That all being said, thanks for the info on how to disable them.
zapper wrote:didn't know that their kernels were already deblobbed, is this verifiable?
Well they have separate packages for the firmware, which is a pretty clear sign
Otherwise check the source: https://github.com/void-linux/void-pack … plate#L180
I didn't reply to this for a while, but I found one other new reason to use deblobbed linux kernels from jxself.org...
The mei module and the hdcp modules creep me out...
 
mei is some intel me management module which I have zero use for and don't know when it was added to the regular kernels...
and hdcp module is some drm like crap...
Heh so I guess unless I know how to disable that stuff, I am sticking with linux-libre.   PS, I use that as a general name, Currently using LTS kernels... ![]()
Or better yet, just don't use "appimage" at all. I suspect that there aren't many devuan users who would touch it.
I have touched appimages in the past and occasionally still do, but that being said, you are probably right about appimage.
They probably aren't as secure or trustworthy as official repos for distros you trust.
I should add, i don't flatpak and especially snaps even more so.
I am not sure about guix package manager, or other alternatives... but snap and npm ones currently rank my least trusted methods of installing.
Especially now that I know about ubuntu's non-free server for snaps. 
 
Aka, walled garden anyone?
nobody@toshiba128:~$ sudo /usr/sbin/expressvpnd restore: /etc/resolv.conf not generated by expressvpn ^C nobody@toshiba128:~$The end of /var/log/syslog didn't contain anything related to the above.
As I said before, I think the latest ExpressVPN .deb is pretty much incompatible with non-systemd systems. I'm marking this thread as solved because I have a work-around, i.e., use the previous .deb.
And/Or in the future, use a different vpn which supports freedom more. ![]()
bimon wrote:The only problem I get now: Rust 1.41.1+dfsg1-1~deb9u1 is not compatible with my old CPU.
Please open a new thread for this problem, we're waaaaay off topic here already. Thanks.
Aww... but being off topic is fun!
For instance, let's talk about eating bugs and maggots or about how the plan of google is world domination. ![]()
Btw, editing as this is meant to be a joke... ![]()
Magnus wrote:As for Trinity, I only used it for a few days. It was when I was using Konqueror to surf that I discovered that Konqueror does not support modern web technologies. Also, I had some general issues with making things work.
Trinity is not about getting support for the newest technologies, it is about stability and a lack of at least a part of modern backdoors managed from invisible BIOS trojans which (backdoors) are most likely present in KDE4 and KDE5. Most likely modern KDEs just allow to manage records via network sockets by RPC calls and that is the problem because trojans have access to network interface while it is not easy for them to interact directly via ABI APIs.
It is like a ban of a person on his own PC ("personal computer"), what to say when someone gets banned in a server managed social network if they can ban even Knotes via IntelME like probes most likely even via communication channel in a power line.
It is a big fake that personal computers are personal since there is sometimes too much undesirable activity of some agencies.
My recordings in Trinity Knotes never disappeared while it happened even in the latest version of KDE4 already using database for notes storage on a modern computer with IntelME probes. After replacing KDE4 by Trinity it did not happen anymore and a few months later I also disabled IntelME mei kernel drivers.
There are many opinions of users who loved KDE3, that KDE5 is just a disaster in terms of which road is chosen for its development.
I didn't know kde was that bad...
Makes me think as bad as gnome has gotten, well its still worse granted, but yeah KDE isn't too good either I guess... ![]()
Kind of makes me wonder though... what will KDE do now that qt's code for LTS builds become proprietary... 5.15 LTS builds will no longer be released as free software and QT6 will be fully proprietary...
That aside, I myself think trinity looks nice, but lately I have taken to i3-wm because of its minimalism. Even Lumina Desktop as nice as that is, is nowhere near as awesome to me as i3-wm.
zapper wrote:Snowden thought spying had a place, but only on the very powerful. The people in power should be spied on to make sure they don't abuse their power. As for everyone else though... NO! just no...
My 2 cents man...
Agreed Zap - it's very backward how the government and big tech collect every text message and phone call and email and the entire web history of the poor worker drone who is making $12 an hour. But he has no right to demand transparency from the government or the tech oligarchs.
Yep, mhm...
I think the best way to call this, is corporate fascism.
That's my thoughts personally, although to each their own...
But yeah... pcs are not personal unless coreboot is installed and no firmware blobs are required to run wifi, graphics, etc...
Thinkpad x230s are good for this purpose... albeit somewhat slow. ;>)
At least from what some people say. I myself find the speed very good. Intel me disabled, stripped down, coreboot on and WALA!
A laptop that doesn't suck major dong...
![]()
But on topic,  yeah... corporations and government need to be spied on not the other way around... ![]()
Do i have to follow those instructionshttp://smarden.org/runit/replaceinit.html or installation script will cover that?
It should already be covered, if you do
sudo apt install runit runit-init
then you should be all set. ![]()
I'll just re-iterate myself then:
Dutch_Master wrote:"Freedom of speech" doesn't mean you can say absolutely anything, anywhere, anytime. Your "freedom of speech" ends where it encroaches on freedoms of others. Disagreeing is fine, as long as it remains respectful and civil. These principles of civilisation have been trampled by certain groups and individuals in the past and exactly that is now being addressed.
Take particular note of that first sentence, then contemplate on the 2nd. That's the core of civilisation in a nutshell.
Kind of hard to be civil when people are just straight up in denial about things that are facts...
That being said, I might have been too harsh.
I just really, detest cult like thinking akin to trumplicans, fascists, neo nazis and denialists...
At some point people who have team mentality, should abandon their team... when your side threatens violence like trumplicans do, its time to eject. If you know what I mean... or to put it more simply... escape that sinking ship before you go under.
;<)
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:dice wrote:the underlying message is quite evident.
Not for me, would you mind explaining your opinion further? TIA.
It just seems to me that with these giant platforms like mozilla,twitter and facebook, that one can be branded evil white nazi supremacists when in fact the opposite could be true and without evidence to contrary they post heresay as in the mozilla article and elsewhere in the mainstream media.
the rampant use of the internet to foment violence and hate, and reinforce white supremacy is about more than any one personality. Donald Trump is certainly not the first politician to exploit the architecture of the internet in this way
^ The article needs to back that up in regards to trumps twitters imo.
From what ive read and seen so far it looked very staged this so called "insurrection". A real coup would have involved storming the building with weopens and a clear objective, the way it looked from what they show on the mainstream media was a bunch of usefull idiots being useful idiots. I do agree free speech has its limits but if only twitter and facebook and the rest lived up to that on a daily basis.
You forget, we are talking about donald trump... he doesn't know how to be sneaky. He is good at manipulation, bad at everything else...
Just a side note, mozilla should rot for letting itself be bribed by google so many times and for accepting their money and for accepting webextensions as their new model... etc... but NOT for the reasons you and ron are mentioning.
There's a lot of bullshit responses in this thread. The real threat here are the ones who get to decide what is (so called) hate speech and what isn't. This IS a threat to free speech.
Oh hush up man,
hate speech isn't free speech man, you know that trump told his supporters to march on the capital and that he encouraged violence. This isn't the first time, won't be the last.
The real threat is being talked about and its called extremism.
trump supporters are friggin extremists. Even the corporate democrats aren't this evil, hell even the republicans in power aren't this evil, they just cowards.
Don't give me that "those aren't the droids you are looking for"
That isn't logical in this case and we both know it.
I don't like to be so crass about this, but extremism must be exposed.
PS, I detest both sides but especially corporate rulers and effing fascists.
Hate speech is not free speech nor is inciting violence.
My freedom ends where yours begins, aka, if you try to restrict someone's freedom or violate someones freedom especially for no justifiable reason... that is wrong.
BLM protesters would have been mowed down with gunfire if they tried to incite insurrection. The confederates /nazi/trump supporters should have had the same treatment.
Equality and justice should be more important than stupid issues like skin color, or race, or other such foolishness...
That all being said, I think firefox is going to die, she has been firing people working on firefox...
So its plausible that may happen. ![]()
And yes, your freedom ends when it encroaches on someone else's freedom.
@zapper
I think substituting s6 for SysV is way beyond my talents.
It might be beyond mine too, never used it... I have used runit/runit-init and openrc. ![]()
Although, never tried s6 cause i hear it is a replacement for systemd thats less bloated. Thus, you get the idea... ![]()
Actually, there might be one alternative to making expressvpn work, if you want...
the init known as s6 or s6-init might be able to get it running. Supposedly, it has some of the same functions as system dumb, only way more lightweight.
It is still somewhat bloated, but its worth a try right?
GlennW wrote:dice wrote:zapper im from Oz and it is similar to the US in regards to intelligentsia and the bourgeois. Im no fan of the brand but everynow and then he has half decent vids. More to the point though the video was for the most part concerned with invasive anti privacy software and roll out in the workplaces be it work from home or in the workplace itself and the bosses and assholes who like to implement this shit for muh productivity. Im strictly against being monitored, massive invasion of privacy.
Yes, but I can't help but think that it , the surveillance state starts under the rule of law, and the private sector takes it to the limit and then the gubbamnt taps into their systems under the guise of Public Safety.
yes it goes hand in hand, but i cant help but think that corporate greed comes into play first then pitched to the .gov to amend the law of the land in their favor. Its a win win situation for both sides, has been ever since 9/11, just ramping it up more and more each decade.
@ golinux, sage words!
@siva, spot on.
Corporate greed does make it worse, yes....
I still fail to understand why people don't realize life is short and thinking amassing large amounts of money WILL NOT, EVER BUY HAPPINESS!
Maybe TEMPORARILY IT WILL, but at some point, you get corrupted, you become evil and later die. 
It is all pointless to amass wealth on this world at the cost of your own heart or if you prefer soul.
For the life of me, this is just... insane. Morality > Wealth
Why? Because you won't be happy when your greedy. At least not for very long anyways.
Long term happiness > short term happiness...
Most of what you guys said, I agree with though.
I don't know if I agree with having no backdoors in all computers, but unless your a corporate entity or a government agency... you should not be spied on unless you have a criminal record. And even then, there should be a reasonable approach. What we have here is the opposite, its just to keep power for the ruling class and let no one change it. That is insane.
Snowden thought spying had a place, but only on the very powerful. The people in power should be spied on to make sure they don't abuse their power. As for everyone else though... NO! just no...
My 2 cents man...