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#1 2022-04-15 17:58:41
- recklessswing
- Member
- From: Türkiye
- Registered: 2020-12-18
- Posts: 97
Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
Why don't we fork systemd instead? Let's just remove unneccessary parts. Can't we do that? Wouldn't it be better? Or worse?
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#2 2022-04-15 19:20:05
- Head_on_a_Stick
- Member
- From: London
- Registered: 2019-03-24
- Posts: 3,125
- Website
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
No need to fork it, just compile it with all the unwanted parts disabled.
Here is a full list of the options for v250:
Main project options:
Core options Default Value Possible Values Description
------------ ------------- --------------- -----------
auto_features auto [enabled, disabled, auto] Override value of all 'auto' features
backend ninja [ninja, vs, vs2010, vs2012, Backend to use
vs2013, vs2015, vs2017, vs2019,
vs2022, xcode]
buildtype debug [plain, debug, debugoptimized, Build type to use
release, minsize, custom]
cmake_prefix_path [] List of additional prefixes for cmake to search
debug true [true, false] Debug
default_library shared [shared, static, both] Default library type
force_fallback_for [] Force fallback for those subprojects
install_umask 0022 [preserve, 0000-0777] Default umask to apply on permissions of installed files
layout mirror [mirror, flat] Build directory layout
optimization 0 [0, g, 1, 2, 3, s] Optimization level
pkg_config_path [] List of additional paths for pkg-config to search
strip false [true, false] Strip targets on install
unity off [on, off, subprojects] Unity build
unity_size 4 >=2 Unity block size
warning_level 2 [0, 1, 2, 3] Compiler warning level to use
werror false [true, false] Treat warnings as errors
wrap_mode default [default, nofallback, Wrap mode
nodownload, forcefallback,
nopromote]
build.cmake_prefix_path [] List of additional prefixes for cmake to search
build.pkg_config_path [] List of additional paths for pkg-config to search
Backend options Default Value Possible Values Description
--------------- ------------- --------------- -----------
backend_max_links 0 >=0 Maximum number of linker processes to run or 0 for no limit
Base options Default Value Possible Values Description
------------ ------------- --------------- -----------
b_asneeded true [true, false] Use -Wl,--as-needed when linking
b_colorout always [auto, always, never] Use colored output
b_coverage false [true, false] Enable coverage tracking.
b_lto false [true, false] Use link time optimization
b_lto_threads 0 Use multiple threads for Link Time Optimization
b_lundef true [true, false] Use -Wl,--no-undefined when linking
b_ndebug false [true, false, if-release] Disable asserts
b_pch true [true, false] Use precompiled headers
b_pgo off [off, generate, use] Use profile guided optimization
b_pie false [true, false] Build executables as position independent
b_sanitize none [none, address, thread, Code sanitizer to use
undefined, memory,
address,undefined]
b_staticpic true [true, false] Build static libraries as position independent
Compiler options Default Value Possible Values Description
---------------- ------------- --------------- -----------
c_args [] Extra arguments passed to the c compiler
c_link_args [] Extra arguments passed to the c linker
c_std gnu11 [none, c89, c99, c11, c17, c18, C language standard to use
c2x, gnu89, gnu99, gnu11,
gnu17, gnu18, gnu2x]
build.c_args [] Extra arguments passed to the c compiler
build.c_link_args [] Extra arguments passed to the c linker
build.c_std none [none, c89, c99, c11, c17, c18, C language standard to use
c2x, gnu89, gnu99, gnu11,
gnu17, gnu18, gnu2x]
python module options Default Value Possible Values Description
--------------------- ------------- --------------- -----------
python.install_env prefix [auto, prefix, system, venv] Which python environment to install to
python.platlibdir Directory for site-specific, platform-specific files.
python.purelibdir Directory for site-specific, non-platform-specific files.
Directories Default Value Possible Values Description
----------- ------------- --------------- -----------
bindir bin Executable directory
datadir share Data file directory
includedir include Header file directory
infodir share/info Info page directory
libdir lib Library directory
libexecdir libexec Library executable directory
localedir share/locale Locale data directory
localstatedir /var Localstate data directory
mandir share/man Manual page directory
prefix /usr Installation prefix
sbindir sbin System executable directory
sharedstatedir /var/lib Architecture-independent data directory
sysconfdir /etc Sysconf data directory
Testing options Default Value Possible Values Description
--------------- ------------- --------------- -----------
errorlogs true [true, false] Whether to print the logs from failing tests
stdsplit true [true, false] Split stdout and stderr in test logs
Project options Default Value Possible Values Description
--------------- ------------- --------------- -----------
acl auto [auto, true, false] libacl support
adm-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "adm" group
adm-group true [true, false] the ACL for adm group should be added
analyze true [true, false] install systemd-analyze
apparmor auto [auto, true, false] AppArmor support
audio-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "audio" group
audit auto [auto, true, false] libaudit support
backlight true [true, false] support for restoring backlight state
bashcompletiondir directory for bash completion scripts ["no" disables]
binfmt true [true, false] support for custom binary formats
blkid auto [auto, true, false] libblkid support
bpf-framework auto [auto, true, false] build BPF programs from source code in restricted C
bump-proc-sys-fs-file-max true [true, false] bump /proc/sys/fs/file-max to LONG_MAX
bump-proc-sys-fs-nr-open true [true, false] bump /proc/sys/fs/nr_open to INT_MAX
bzip2 auto [auto, true, false] bzip2 compression support
cdrom-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "cdrom" group
certificate-root /etc/ssl the prefix for TLS certificates
clock-valid-range-usec-max 473364000000000 maximum value in microseconds for the difference between RTC and
epoch, exceeding which is considered an RTC error
compat-mutable-uid-boundaries false [true, false] look at uid boundaries in /etc/login.defs for compatibility
container-uid-base-max 1878982656 maximum container UID base
container-uid-base-min 524288 minimum container UID base
coredump true [true, false] install the coredump handler
create-log-dirs true [true, false] create /var/log/journal{,/remote}
cryptolib auto [auto, openssl, gcrypt] whether to use openssl or gcrypt where both are supported
dbus auto [auto, true, false] libdbus support (for tests only)
dbus-interfaces-dir export D-Bus introspection XML as standalone files
dbuspolicydir D-Bus policy directory
dbussessionservicedir D-Bus session service directory
dbussystemservicedir D-Bus system service directory
debug-extra [] [hashmap, mmap-cache, siphash] enable extra debugging
debug-shell /bin/sh path to debug shell binary
debug-tty /dev/tty9 specify the tty device for debug shell
default-dns-over-tls no [yes, opportunistic, no] default DNS-over-TLS mode
default-dnssec allow-downgrade [yes, allow-downgrade, no] default DNSSEC mode
default-hierarchy unified [legacy, hybrid, unified] default cgroup hierarchy
default-kill-user-processes true [true, false] the default value for KillUserProcesses= setting
default-llmnr yes [yes, resolve, no] default LLMNR mode
default-locale default locale used when /etc/locale.conf does not exist
default-mdns yes [yes, resolve, no] default MulticastDNS mode
default-net-naming-scheme latest default net.naming-scheme= value
default-user-shell /bin/bash default interactive shell
dev-kvm-mode 0666 /dev/kvm access mode
dialout-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "dialout" group
disk-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "disk" group
dns-over-tls auto [auto, gnutls, openssl, true, DNS-over-TLS support
false]
dns-servers 1.1.1.1#cloudflare-dns.com space-separated list of default DNS servers
8.8.8.8#dns.google
1.0.0.1#cloudflare-dns.com
8.8.4.4#dns.google
2606:4700:4700::1111#cloudflare-
dns.com
2001:4860:4860::8888#dns.google
2606:4700:4700::1001#cloudflare-
dns.com
2001:4860:4860::8844#dns.google
docdir documentation directory
dynamic-uid-max 65519 maximum dynamic UID
dynamic-uid-min 61184 minimum dynamic UID
efi true [true, false] enable systemd-boot and bootctl
efi-cflags [] additional flags for EFI compiler
efi-color-edit black,lightgray boot loader color for option line edit
efi-color-entry lightgray,black boot loader color for entries
efi-color-highlight black,lightgray boot loader color for selected entries
efi-color-normal lightgray,black general boot loader color in "foreground,background" form, see
constants from eficon.h
efi-includedir /usr/include/efi path to the EFI header directory
efi-ld auto [auto, bfd, gold] the linker to use for EFI modules
efi-libdir path to the EFI lib directory
efi-tpm-pcr-compat false [true, false] Measure kernel command line also into TPM PCR 8 (in addition to
12)
elfutils auto [auto, true, false] elfutils support
environment-d true [true, false] support for environment.d
extra-net-naming-schemes comma-separated list of extra net.naming-scheme= definitions
fallback-hostname localhost the hostname used if none configured
fdisk auto [auto, true, false] libfdisk support
fexecve false [true, false] use fexecve() to spawn children
firstboot true [true, false] support for firstboot mechanism
fuzz-tests false [true, false] run the fuzzer regression tests by default (with sanitizers)
gcrypt auto [auto, true, false] gcrypt support
glib auto [auto, true, false] libglib support (for tests only)
gnu-efi auto [auto, true, false] gnu-efi support for sd-boot
gnutls auto [auto, true, false] gnutls support
group-render-mode 0666 Access mode for devices owned by render group (e.g.
/dev/dri/renderD*, /dev/kfd).
gshadow true [true, false] support for shadow group
hibernate true [true, false] support for hibernation
homed auto [auto, true, false] install the systemd-homed stack
hostnamed true [true, false] install the systemd-hostnamed stack
html false [auto, true, false] build and install html pages
hwdb true [true, false] support for the hardware database
idn true [true, false] use IDN when printing hostnames
ima true [true, false] IMA support
importd auto [auto, true, false] install the systemd-importd daemon
initrd true [true, false] install services for use when running systemd in initrd
input-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "input" group
install-sysconfdir true [true, no-samples, false] install configuration files and directories to $sysconfdir
install-tests false [true, false] install test executables
kernel-install true [true, false] install kernel-install and associated files
kexec-path path to kexec
kmem-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "kmem" group
kmod auto [auto, true, false] support for loadable modules
kmod-path path to kmod
kvm-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "kvm" group
ldconfig true [true, false] support for dynamic linker cache creation
libcryptsetup auto [auto, true, false] libcryptsetup support
libcryptsetup-plugins auto [auto, true, false] libcryptsetup LUKS2 external token handlers support (plugins)
libcryptsetup-plugins-dir directory for libcryptsetup plugins
libcurl auto [auto, true, false] libcurl support
libfido2 auto [auto, true, false] FIDO2 support
libidn auto [auto, true, false] libidn support
libidn2 auto [auto, true, false] libidn2 support
libiptc auto [auto, true, false] libiptc support
link-boot-shared true [true, false] link bootctl and systemd-bless-boot against libsystemd-shared.so
link-networkd-shared true [true, false] link systemd-networkd and its helpers to libsystemd-shared.so
link-systemctl-shared true [true, false] link systemctl against libsystemd-shared.so
link-timesyncd-shared true [true, false] link systemd-timesyncd and its helpers to libsystemd-shared.so
link-udev-shared true [true, false] link systemd-udev and its helpers to libsystemd-shared.so
llvm-fuzz false [true, false] build against LLVM libFuzzer
loadkeys-path path to loadkeys
localed true [true, false] install the systemd-localed stack
localegen-path absolute path to the locale-gen binary in case the system is
using locale-gen
log-trace false [true, false] enable low level debug logging
logind true [true, false] install the systemd-logind stack
lp-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "lp" group
lz4 auto [auto, true, false] lz4 compression support
machined true [true, false] install the systemd-machined stack
man false [auto, true, false] build and install man pages
memory-accounting-default true [true, false] enable MemoryAccounting= by default
microhttpd auto [auto, true, false] libµhttpd support
mode developer [developer, release] autoenable features suitable for systemd development/release
builds
mount-path path to mount
networkd true [true, false] install the systemd-networkd stack
nobody-group nobody The name of the nobody group (the one with GID 65534)
nobody-user nobody The name of the nobody user (the one with UID 65534)
nologin-path path to nologin
nscd true [true, false] build support for flushing of the nscd caches
nss-myhostname true [true, false] install nss-myhostname module
nss-mymachines auto [auto, true, false] install nss-mymachines module
nss-resolve auto [auto, true, false] install nss-resolve module
nss-systemd true [true, false] install nss-systemd module
ntp-servers time1.google.com space-separated list of default NTP servers
time2.google.com
time3.google.com
time4.google.com
ok-color green [black, red, green, yellow, color of the "OK" status message
blue, magenta, cyan, white,
highlight-black, highlight-red,
highlight-green,
highlight-yellow, highlight-
blue, highlight-magenta,
highlight-cyan, highlight-
white]
oomd true [true, false] install the userspace oom killer
openssl auto [auto, true, false] openssl support
oss-fuzz false [true, false] build against oss-fuzz
p11kit auto [auto, true, false] p11kit support
pam auto [auto, true, false] PAM support
pamconfdir directory for PAM configuration ["no" disables]
pamlibdir directory for PAM modules
pcre2 auto [auto, true, false] regexp matching support using pcre2
pkgconfigdatadir directory for arch-independent pkg-config files
pkgconfiglibdir directory for standard pkg-config files
polkit auto [auto, true, false] polkit support
portabled true [true, false] install the systemd-portabled stack
pstore true [true, false] install the pstore archival tool
pwquality auto [auto, true, false] libpwquality support
qrencode auto [auto, true, false] libqrencode support
quotacheck true [true, false] support for the quotacheck tools
quotacheck-path path to quotacheck
quotaon-path path to quotaon
randomseed true [true, false] support for restoring random seed
rc-local /etc/rc.local rc-local
remote auto [auto, true, false] support for "journal over the network"
render-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "render" group
repart auto [auto, true, false] install the systemd-repart tool
resolve true [true, false] systemd-resolved stack
rfkill true [true, false] support for the rfkill tools
rootlibdir [/usr]/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu or such
rootprefix override the root prefix [default '/' if split-usr and '/usr'
otherwise]
rpmmacrosdir lib/rpm/macros.d directory for rpm macros ["no" disables]
sbat-distro auto SBAT distribution ID, e.g. fedora, or auto for autodetection
sbat-distro-generation 1 SBAT distribution generation
sbat-distro-pkgname SBAT distribution package name, e.g. systemd
sbat-distro-summary SBAT distribution summary, e.g. Fedora
sbat-distro-url SBAT distribution URL, e.g.
https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/systemd
sbat-distro-version SBAT distribution package version, e.g. 248-7.fc34
seccomp auto [auto, true, false] SECCOMP support
selinux auto [auto, true, false] SELinux support
service-watchdog 3min default watchdog setting for systemd services
setfont-path path to setfont
sgx-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "sgx" group
shared-lib-tag override the private shared library version tag (defaults to
project version)
skip-deps false [true, false] skip optional dependencies
slow-tests false [true, false] run the slow tests by default
smack true [true, false] SMACK support
smack-run-label run systemd --system itself with a specific SMACK label
split-bin auto [auto, true, false] sbin is not a symlink to bin
split-usr auto [auto, true, false] /bin, /sbin aren't symlinks into /usr
standalone-binaries false [true, false] also build standalone versions of supported binaries
static-libsystemd false [false, true, pic, no-pic] install a static library for libsystemd
static-libudev false [false, true, pic, no-pic] install a static library for libudev
status-unit-format-default description [description, name, combined] use unit name or description in messages by default
sulogin-path path to sulogin
support-url https://lists.freedesktop.org/ma the support URL to show in catalog entries included in systemd
ilman/listinfo/systemd-devel
sysext true [true, false] install the systemd-sysext stack
system-alloc-gid-min -1 minimum system GID used when allocating
system-alloc-uid-min -1 minimum system UID used when allocating
system-gid-max -1 maximum system GID
system-uid-max -1 maximum system UID
systemd-journal-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the systemd-journal group
systemd-network-uid -1 soft-static allocation for the systemd-network user
systemd-resolve-uid -1 soft-static allocation for the systemd-resolve user
systemd-timesync-uid -1 soft-static allocation for the systemd-timesync user
sysupdate auto [auto, true, false] install the systemd-sysupdate tool
sysusers true [true, false] support for the sysusers configuration
sysvinit-path /etc/init.d the directory where the SysV init scripts are located
sysvrcnd-path /etc/rc.d the base directory for SysV rcN.d directories
tape-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "tape" group
telinit-path /lib/sysvinit/telinit path to telinit
tests true [true, unsafe, false] enable extra tests with =unsafe
time-epoch -1 time epoch for time clients
timedated true [true, false] install the systemd-timedated daemon
timesyncd true [true, false] install the systemd-timesyncd daemon
tmpfiles true [true, false] support for tmpfiles.d
tpm true [true, false] TPM should be used to log events and extend the registers
tpm2 auto [auto, true, false] TPM2 support
translations true [true, false] build and install translations
tty-gid 5 the numeric GID of the "tty" group
umount-path path to umount
update-helper-user-timeout 15s how long to wait for user manager operations
urlify true [true, false] enable pager Hyperlink ANSI sequence support
user-path $PATH to use for user sessions
userdb true [true, false] install the systemd-userdbd stack
users-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "users" group
utmp true [true, false] support for utmp/wtmp log handling
utmp-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "utmp" group
valgrind false [true, false] do extra operations to avoid valgrind warnings
vconsole true [true, false] support for vconsole configuration
version-tag override the git version string
video-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "video" group
wheel-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "wheel" group
wheel-group true [true, false] the ACL for wheel group should be added
www-target www.freedesktop.org:/srv/www.fre the address and dir to upload docs too
edesktop.org/www/software/system
d
xdg-autostart true [true, false] install the xdg-autostart-generator and unit
xinitrcdir directory for xinitrc files
xkbcommon auto [auto, true, false] xkbcommon keymap support
xz auto [auto, true, false] xz compression support
zlib auto [auto, true, false] zlib compression support
zshcompletiondir directory for zsh completion scripts ["no" disables]
zstd auto [auto, true, false] zstd compression supportAs you can see it is quite comprehensive :-)
Even if the various components are all enabled (as they are for most distributions) there's still no need to use them — other programs can be substituted in instead, as per the UNIX Philosophy.
Brianna Ghey — Rest In Power
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#3 2022-04-15 19:45:02
- golinux
- Administrator
- Registered: 2016-11-25
- Posts: 3,317
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
recklessswing wrote:
Why don't we fork systemd instead? Let's just remove unneccessary parts. Can't we do that? Wouldn't it be better? Or worse?
Why would anyone want systemd in the first place?
Online
#4 2022-04-15 22:32:39
- Altoid
- Member
- Registered: 2017-05-07
- Posts: 1,581
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
Hello:
golinux wrote:
Why would anyone want systemd in the first place?
Indeed ...
+1 8^D
systemd is the absolute opposite of basic Linux philosophy.
ie: Write programs that do one thing and do it well.
A.
Last edited by Altoid (2022-04-15 22:38:49)
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#5 2022-04-16 04:06:02
- charliebrownau
- Member
- From: Australia
- Registered: 2022-04-14
- Posts: 62
- Website
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
Gday
This is what I don't understand
Why cant the community fork or pull soyd/dbus/avachi from opensource programs?
Why cant we fork stuff like
Hexchat
Smplayer
Mumble
LibreWolf
without soyd/bloat/centralisation/etc ?
Or do what the International Subversives do
* join a project
* inject their changes
* kick out the original group
* take over the project
Even if the community has to res a bunch of old abandoned stuff like leafpad and other stuff
that's been ditched by { THEM }
Does the soydless community even have a plan of action to go ahead ?
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#6 2022-04-16 06:28:36
- golinux
- Administrator
- Registered: 2016-11-25
- Posts: 3,317
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
charliebrownau wrote:
Gday
This is what I don't understand
Why cant the community fork or pull soyd/dbus/avachi from opensource programs?
[cut rant]
Does the soydless community even have a plan of action to go ahead ?
There are talkers and doers. Until you become a doer, silence is the best option. Perhaps you'll find a more appreciative audience elsewhere . . .
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#7 2022-04-16 07:55:12
- hevidevi
- Member
- Registered: 2021-09-17
- Posts: 230
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
thats like saying why dont we just fork gtk and remove the cruft, it takes teams of dedicated people. Devuan was the sane choice by forking debian and removing systemd in favour of a tried and true init system, sysvinit.
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#8 2022-04-16 08:32:59
- Camtaf
- Member
- Registered: 2019-11-19
- Posts: 436
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
I use Devuan because it's what Debian used to be. 
If it doesn't suit you, try a different distro, that's the beauty of Linux, choice. 
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#9 2022-04-16 08:47:43
- hevidevi
- Member
- Registered: 2021-09-17
- Posts: 230
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
No need to fork it, just compile it with all the unwanted parts disabled.
Here is a full list of the options for v250:
Main project options: Core options Default Value Possible Values Description ------------ ------------- --------------- ----------- auto_features auto [enabled, disabled, auto] Override value of all 'auto' features backend ninja [ninja, vs, vs2010, vs2012, Backend to use vs2013, vs2015, vs2017, vs2019, vs2022, xcode] buildtype debug [plain, debug, debugoptimized, Build type to use release, minsize, custom] cmake_prefix_path [] List of additional prefixes for cmake to search debug true [true, false] Debug default_library shared [shared, static, both] Default library type force_fallback_for [] Force fallback for those subprojects install_umask 0022 [preserve, 0000-0777] Default umask to apply on permissions of installed files layout mirror [mirror, flat] Build directory layout optimization 0 [0, g, 1, 2, 3, s] Optimization level pkg_config_path [] List of additional paths for pkg-config to search strip false [true, false] Strip targets on install unity off [on, off, subprojects] Unity build unity_size 4 >=2 Unity block size warning_level 2 [0, 1, 2, 3] Compiler warning level to use werror false [true, false] Treat warnings as errors wrap_mode default [default, nofallback, Wrap mode nodownload, forcefallback, nopromote] build.cmake_prefix_path [] List of additional prefixes for cmake to search build.pkg_config_path [] List of additional paths for pkg-config to search Backend options Default Value Possible Values Description --------------- ------------- --------------- ----------- backend_max_links 0 >=0 Maximum number of linker processes to run or 0 for no limit Base options Default Value Possible Values Description ------------ ------------- --------------- ----------- b_asneeded true [true, false] Use -Wl,--as-needed when linking b_colorout always [auto, always, never] Use colored output b_coverage false [true, false] Enable coverage tracking. b_lto false [true, false] Use link time optimization b_lto_threads 0 Use multiple threads for Link Time Optimization b_lundef true [true, false] Use -Wl,--no-undefined when linking b_ndebug false [true, false, if-release] Disable asserts b_pch true [true, false] Use precompiled headers b_pgo off [off, generate, use] Use profile guided optimization b_pie false [true, false] Build executables as position independent b_sanitize none [none, address, thread, Code sanitizer to use undefined, memory, address,undefined] b_staticpic true [true, false] Build static libraries as position independent Compiler options Default Value Possible Values Description ---------------- ------------- --------------- ----------- c_args [] Extra arguments passed to the c compiler c_link_args [] Extra arguments passed to the c linker c_std gnu11 [none, c89, c99, c11, c17, c18, C language standard to use c2x, gnu89, gnu99, gnu11, gnu17, gnu18, gnu2x] build.c_args [] Extra arguments passed to the c compiler build.c_link_args [] Extra arguments passed to the c linker build.c_std none [none, c89, c99, c11, c17, c18, C language standard to use c2x, gnu89, gnu99, gnu11, gnu17, gnu18, gnu2x] python module options Default Value Possible Values Description --------------------- ------------- --------------- ----------- python.install_env prefix [auto, prefix, system, venv] Which python environment to install to python.platlibdir Directory for site-specific, platform-specific files. python.purelibdir Directory for site-specific, non-platform-specific files. Directories Default Value Possible Values Description ----------- ------------- --------------- ----------- bindir bin Executable directory datadir share Data file directory includedir include Header file directory infodir share/info Info page directory libdir lib Library directory libexecdir libexec Library executable directory localedir share/locale Locale data directory localstatedir /var Localstate data directory mandir share/man Manual page directory prefix /usr Installation prefix sbindir sbin System executable directory sharedstatedir /var/lib Architecture-independent data directory sysconfdir /etc Sysconf data directory Testing options Default Value Possible Values Description --------------- ------------- --------------- ----------- errorlogs true [true, false] Whether to print the logs from failing tests stdsplit true [true, false] Split stdout and stderr in test logs Project options Default Value Possible Values Description --------------- ------------- --------------- ----------- acl auto [auto, true, false] libacl support adm-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "adm" group adm-group true [true, false] the ACL for adm group should be added analyze true [true, false] install systemd-analyze apparmor auto [auto, true, false] AppArmor support audio-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "audio" group audit auto [auto, true, false] libaudit support backlight true [true, false] support for restoring backlight state bashcompletiondir directory for bash completion scripts ["no" disables] binfmt true [true, false] support for custom binary formats blkid auto [auto, true, false] libblkid support bpf-framework auto [auto, true, false] build BPF programs from source code in restricted C bump-proc-sys-fs-file-max true [true, false] bump /proc/sys/fs/file-max to LONG_MAX bump-proc-sys-fs-nr-open true [true, false] bump /proc/sys/fs/nr_open to INT_MAX bzip2 auto [auto, true, false] bzip2 compression support cdrom-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "cdrom" group certificate-root /etc/ssl the prefix for TLS certificates clock-valid-range-usec-max 473364000000000 maximum value in microseconds for the difference between RTC and epoch, exceeding which is considered an RTC error compat-mutable-uid-boundaries false [true, false] look at uid boundaries in /etc/login.defs for compatibility container-uid-base-max 1878982656 maximum container UID base container-uid-base-min 524288 minimum container UID base coredump true [true, false] install the coredump handler create-log-dirs true [true, false] create /var/log/journal{,/remote} cryptolib auto [auto, openssl, gcrypt] whether to use openssl or gcrypt where both are supported dbus auto [auto, true, false] libdbus support (for tests only) dbus-interfaces-dir export D-Bus introspection XML as standalone files dbuspolicydir D-Bus policy directory dbussessionservicedir D-Bus session service directory dbussystemservicedir D-Bus system service directory debug-extra [] [hashmap, mmap-cache, siphash] enable extra debugging debug-shell /bin/sh path to debug shell binary debug-tty /dev/tty9 specify the tty device for debug shell default-dns-over-tls no [yes, opportunistic, no] default DNS-over-TLS mode default-dnssec allow-downgrade [yes, allow-downgrade, no] default DNSSEC mode default-hierarchy unified [legacy, hybrid, unified] default cgroup hierarchy default-kill-user-processes true [true, false] the default value for KillUserProcesses= setting default-llmnr yes [yes, resolve, no] default LLMNR mode default-locale default locale used when /etc/locale.conf does not exist default-mdns yes [yes, resolve, no] default MulticastDNS mode default-net-naming-scheme latest default net.naming-scheme= value default-user-shell /bin/bash default interactive shell dev-kvm-mode 0666 /dev/kvm access mode dialout-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "dialout" group disk-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "disk" group dns-over-tls auto [auto, gnutls, openssl, true, DNS-over-TLS support false] dns-servers 1.1.1.1#cloudflare-dns.com space-separated list of default DNS servers 8.8.8.8#dns.google 1.0.0.1#cloudflare-dns.com 8.8.4.4#dns.google 2606:4700:4700::1111#cloudflare- dns.com 2001:4860:4860::8888#dns.google 2606:4700:4700::1001#cloudflare- dns.com 2001:4860:4860::8844#dns.google docdir documentation directory dynamic-uid-max 65519 maximum dynamic UID dynamic-uid-min 61184 minimum dynamic UID efi true [true, false] enable systemd-boot and bootctl efi-cflags [] additional flags for EFI compiler efi-color-edit black,lightgray boot loader color for option line edit efi-color-entry lightgray,black boot loader color for entries efi-color-highlight black,lightgray boot loader color for selected entries efi-color-normal lightgray,black general boot loader color in "foreground,background" form, see constants from eficon.h efi-includedir /usr/include/efi path to the EFI header directory efi-ld auto [auto, bfd, gold] the linker to use for EFI modules efi-libdir path to the EFI lib directory efi-tpm-pcr-compat false [true, false] Measure kernel command line also into TPM PCR 8 (in addition to 12) elfutils auto [auto, true, false] elfutils support environment-d true [true, false] support for environment.d extra-net-naming-schemes comma-separated list of extra net.naming-scheme= definitions fallback-hostname localhost the hostname used if none configured fdisk auto [auto, true, false] libfdisk support fexecve false [true, false] use fexecve() to spawn children firstboot true [true, false] support for firstboot mechanism fuzz-tests false [true, false] run the fuzzer regression tests by default (with sanitizers) gcrypt auto [auto, true, false] gcrypt support glib auto [auto, true, false] libglib support (for tests only) gnu-efi auto [auto, true, false] gnu-efi support for sd-boot gnutls auto [auto, true, false] gnutls support group-render-mode 0666 Access mode for devices owned by render group (e.g. /dev/dri/renderD*, /dev/kfd). gshadow true [true, false] support for shadow group hibernate true [true, false] support for hibernation homed auto [auto, true, false] install the systemd-homed stack hostnamed true [true, false] install the systemd-hostnamed stack html false [auto, true, false] build and install html pages hwdb true [true, false] support for the hardware database idn true [true, false] use IDN when printing hostnames ima true [true, false] IMA support importd auto [auto, true, false] install the systemd-importd daemon initrd true [true, false] install services for use when running systemd in initrd input-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "input" group install-sysconfdir true [true, no-samples, false] install configuration files and directories to $sysconfdir install-tests false [true, false] install test executables kernel-install true [true, false] install kernel-install and associated files kexec-path path to kexec kmem-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "kmem" group kmod auto [auto, true, false] support for loadable modules kmod-path path to kmod kvm-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "kvm" group ldconfig true [true, false] support for dynamic linker cache creation libcryptsetup auto [auto, true, false] libcryptsetup support libcryptsetup-plugins auto [auto, true, false] libcryptsetup LUKS2 external token handlers support (plugins) libcryptsetup-plugins-dir directory for libcryptsetup plugins libcurl auto [auto, true, false] libcurl support libfido2 auto [auto, true, false] FIDO2 support libidn auto [auto, true, false] libidn support libidn2 auto [auto, true, false] libidn2 support libiptc auto [auto, true, false] libiptc support link-boot-shared true [true, false] link bootctl and systemd-bless-boot against libsystemd-shared.so link-networkd-shared true [true, false] link systemd-networkd and its helpers to libsystemd-shared.so link-systemctl-shared true [true, false] link systemctl against libsystemd-shared.so link-timesyncd-shared true [true, false] link systemd-timesyncd and its helpers to libsystemd-shared.so link-udev-shared true [true, false] link systemd-udev and its helpers to libsystemd-shared.so llvm-fuzz false [true, false] build against LLVM libFuzzer loadkeys-path path to loadkeys localed true [true, false] install the systemd-localed stack localegen-path absolute path to the locale-gen binary in case the system is using locale-gen log-trace false [true, false] enable low level debug logging logind true [true, false] install the systemd-logind stack lp-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "lp" group lz4 auto [auto, true, false] lz4 compression support machined true [true, false] install the systemd-machined stack man false [auto, true, false] build and install man pages memory-accounting-default true [true, false] enable MemoryAccounting= by default microhttpd auto [auto, true, false] libµhttpd support mode developer [developer, release] autoenable features suitable for systemd development/release builds mount-path path to mount networkd true [true, false] install the systemd-networkd stack nobody-group nobody The name of the nobody group (the one with GID 65534) nobody-user nobody The name of the nobody user (the one with UID 65534) nologin-path path to nologin nscd true [true, false] build support for flushing of the nscd caches nss-myhostname true [true, false] install nss-myhostname module nss-mymachines auto [auto, true, false] install nss-mymachines module nss-resolve auto [auto, true, false] install nss-resolve module nss-systemd true [true, false] install nss-systemd module ntp-servers time1.google.com space-separated list of default NTP servers time2.google.com time3.google.com time4.google.com ok-color green [black, red, green, yellow, color of the "OK" status message blue, magenta, cyan, white, highlight-black, highlight-red, highlight-green, highlight-yellow, highlight- blue, highlight-magenta, highlight-cyan, highlight- white] oomd true [true, false] install the userspace oom killer openssl auto [auto, true, false] openssl support oss-fuzz false [true, false] build against oss-fuzz p11kit auto [auto, true, false] p11kit support pam auto [auto, true, false] PAM support pamconfdir directory for PAM configuration ["no" disables] pamlibdir directory for PAM modules pcre2 auto [auto, true, false] regexp matching support using pcre2 pkgconfigdatadir directory for arch-independent pkg-config files pkgconfiglibdir directory for standard pkg-config files polkit auto [auto, true, false] polkit support portabled true [true, false] install the systemd-portabled stack pstore true [true, false] install the pstore archival tool pwquality auto [auto, true, false] libpwquality support qrencode auto [auto, true, false] libqrencode support quotacheck true [true, false] support for the quotacheck tools quotacheck-path path to quotacheck quotaon-path path to quotaon randomseed true [true, false] support for restoring random seed rc-local /etc/rc.local rc-local remote auto [auto, true, false] support for "journal over the network" render-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "render" group repart auto [auto, true, false] install the systemd-repart tool resolve true [true, false] systemd-resolved stack rfkill true [true, false] support for the rfkill tools rootlibdir [/usr]/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu or such rootprefix override the root prefix [default '/' if split-usr and '/usr' otherwise] rpmmacrosdir lib/rpm/macros.d directory for rpm macros ["no" disables] sbat-distro auto SBAT distribution ID, e.g. fedora, or auto for autodetection sbat-distro-generation 1 SBAT distribution generation sbat-distro-pkgname SBAT distribution package name, e.g. systemd sbat-distro-summary SBAT distribution summary, e.g. Fedora sbat-distro-url SBAT distribution URL, e.g. https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/systemd sbat-distro-version SBAT distribution package version, e.g. 248-7.fc34 seccomp auto [auto, true, false] SECCOMP support selinux auto [auto, true, false] SELinux support service-watchdog 3min default watchdog setting for systemd services setfont-path path to setfont sgx-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "sgx" group shared-lib-tag override the private shared library version tag (defaults to project version) skip-deps false [true, false] skip optional dependencies slow-tests false [true, false] run the slow tests by default smack true [true, false] SMACK support smack-run-label run systemd --system itself with a specific SMACK label split-bin auto [auto, true, false] sbin is not a symlink to bin split-usr auto [auto, true, false] /bin, /sbin aren't symlinks into /usr standalone-binaries false [true, false] also build standalone versions of supported binaries static-libsystemd false [false, true, pic, no-pic] install a static library for libsystemd static-libudev false [false, true, pic, no-pic] install a static library for libudev status-unit-format-default description [description, name, combined] use unit name or description in messages by default sulogin-path path to sulogin support-url https://lists.freedesktop.org/ma the support URL to show in catalog entries included in systemd ilman/listinfo/systemd-devel sysext true [true, false] install the systemd-sysext stack system-alloc-gid-min -1 minimum system GID used when allocating system-alloc-uid-min -1 minimum system UID used when allocating system-gid-max -1 maximum system GID system-uid-max -1 maximum system UID systemd-journal-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the systemd-journal group systemd-network-uid -1 soft-static allocation for the systemd-network user systemd-resolve-uid -1 soft-static allocation for the systemd-resolve user systemd-timesync-uid -1 soft-static allocation for the systemd-timesync user sysupdate auto [auto, true, false] install the systemd-sysupdate tool sysusers true [true, false] support for the sysusers configuration sysvinit-path /etc/init.d the directory where the SysV init scripts are located sysvrcnd-path /etc/rc.d the base directory for SysV rcN.d directories tape-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "tape" group telinit-path /lib/sysvinit/telinit path to telinit tests true [true, unsafe, false] enable extra tests with =unsafe time-epoch -1 time epoch for time clients timedated true [true, false] install the systemd-timedated daemon timesyncd true [true, false] install the systemd-timesyncd daemon tmpfiles true [true, false] support for tmpfiles.d tpm true [true, false] TPM should be used to log events and extend the registers tpm2 auto [auto, true, false] TPM2 support translations true [true, false] build and install translations tty-gid 5 the numeric GID of the "tty" group umount-path path to umount update-helper-user-timeout 15s how long to wait for user manager operations urlify true [true, false] enable pager Hyperlink ANSI sequence support user-path $PATH to use for user sessions userdb true [true, false] install the systemd-userdbd stack users-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "users" group utmp true [true, false] support for utmp/wtmp log handling utmp-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "utmp" group valgrind false [true, false] do extra operations to avoid valgrind warnings vconsole true [true, false] support for vconsole configuration version-tag override the git version string video-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "video" group wheel-gid -1 soft-static allocation for the "wheel" group wheel-group true [true, false] the ACL for wheel group should be added www-target www.freedesktop.org:/srv/www.fre the address and dir to upload docs too edesktop.org/www/software/system d xdg-autostart true [true, false] install the xdg-autostart-generator and unit xinitrcdir directory for xinitrc files xkbcommon auto [auto, true, false] xkbcommon keymap support xz auto [auto, true, false] xz compression support zlib auto [auto, true, false] zlib compression support zshcompletiondir directory for zsh completion scripts ["no" disables] zstd auto [auto, true, false] zstd compression supportAs you can see it is quite comprehensive :-)
Even if the various components are all enabled (as they are for most distributions) there's still no need to use them — other programs can be substituted in instead, as per the UNIX Philosophy.
But it is still trying to do more than what an init system needs to do and programs are being built around it as hard dependencies, it has surpassed being just an init system as you have pointed out here, compared to System V. Gentoo has a nice wiki on this subject worth a read: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Hard_depen … on_systemd
Last edited by hevidevi (2022-04-16 08:59:35)
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#10 2022-04-16 09:08:56
- Head_on_a_Stick
- Member
- From: London
- Registered: 2019-03-24
- Posts: 3,125
- Website
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
hevidevi wrote:
But it is still trying to do more than what an init system needs to do
The systemd team are developing an entire suite of utilities to control a Linux system. Those utilities do not have to be used. For example it is perfectly possible to boot Debian with systemd as PID1 and then hand over to runit for the service management and from that point on avoid any systemd tools:
https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/runit-run
Having the same team develop both the init system and user space utilities is standard practice in true UNIX® systems.
Brianna Ghey — Rest In Power
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#11 2022-04-16 09:19:59
- hevidevi
- Member
- Registered: 2021-09-17
- Posts: 230
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
hevidevi wrote:But it is still trying to do more than what an init system needs to do
The systemd team are developing an entire suite of utilities to control a Linux system. Those utilities do not have to be used. For example it is perfectly possible to boot Debian with systemd as PID1 and then hand over to runit for the service management and from that point on avoid any systemd tools:
https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/runit-run
Having the same team develop both the init system and user space utilities is standard practice in true UNIX® systems.
Having the same team go against unix philosophy is quite the conundrum don't you think? Why was Devuan created ?
There is nothing simple, short, clear, modular, and extensible about systemd in my opinion.
Last edited by hevidevi (2022-04-16 09:23:46)
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#12 2022-04-16 09:49:57
- Head_on_a_Stick
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- From: London
- Registered: 2019-03-24
- Posts: 3,125
- Website
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
I would agree with it not being simple, short or clear but systemd is certainly modular:
archie:~$ systemd-#<tab>
systemd-analyze systemd-machine-id-setup
systemd-ask-password systemd-mount
systemd-cat systemd-notify
systemd-cgls systemd-nspawn
systemd-cgtop systemd-path
systemd-creds systemd-repart
systemd-cryptenroll systemd-resolve
systemd-delta systemd-run
systemd-detect-virt systemd-socket-activate
systemd-dissect systemd-stdio-bridge
systemd-escape systemd-sysext
systemd-firstboot systemd-sysusers
systemd-hwdb systemd-tmpfiles
systemd-id128 systemd-tty-ask-password-agent
systemd-inhibit systemd-umount^ They're all separate tools, most of which can be disabled at compile time, and almost all of them are optional.
In my Arch box I'm not using systemd-networkd but I am using systemd-resolved. I don't use systemd-homed or machinectl (which is actually packaged separately in Debian), nor am I forced to use most other components.
In my Alpine box I'm using gummiboot as a bootloader and that is created from the systemd-boot codebase (after patching to work under musl libc) so the modularity is also portable :-)
Brianna Ghey — Rest In Power
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#13 2022-04-16 10:01:27
- hevidevi
- Member
- Registered: 2021-09-17
- Posts: 230
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
I would agree with it not being simple, short or clear but systemd is certainly modular:
archie:~$ systemd-#<tab> systemd-analyze systemd-machine-id-setup systemd-ask-password systemd-mount systemd-cat systemd-notify systemd-cgls systemd-nspawn systemd-cgtop systemd-path systemd-creds systemd-repart systemd-cryptenroll systemd-resolve systemd-delta systemd-run systemd-detect-virt systemd-socket-activate systemd-dissect systemd-stdio-bridge systemd-escape systemd-sysext systemd-firstboot systemd-sysusers systemd-hwdb systemd-tmpfiles systemd-id128 systemd-tty-ask-password-agent systemd-inhibit systemd-umount^ They're all separate tools, most of which can be disabled at compile time, and almost all of them are optional.
In my Arch box I'm not using systemd-networkd but I am using systemd-resolved. I don't use systemd-homed or machinectl (which is actually packaged separately in Debian), nor am I forced to use most other components.
In my Alpine box I'm using gummiboot as a bootloader and that is created from the systemd-boot codebase (after patching to work under musl libc) so the modularity is also portable :-)
systemd-linux coming soon!
In regards to alpinelinux gummiboot ?
https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/tree … icts.patch
Done in a hurry to fix build with latest gnu-efi, this project is dead and was absorbed into systemd
but there are still users of its EFISTUB file
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#14 2022-04-16 21:49:17
- brocashelm
- Member
- Registered: 2020-06-29
- Posts: 114
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
Even if it could be "fully removed" from a Debian system and replaced with an init of your choosing, that ship has sailed a long time ago...
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#15 2022-05-28 17:57:00
- czeekaj
- Member
- Registered: 2019-06-12
- Posts: 154
Re: Why don't we just fork systemd and remove unneccessary bloat?
can't wait to have my home directory managed by systemd-homed.
homectl create devuan --storage=luks
simply share your .identity folder between divices and your home directory becomes a modular transferable mount space. This is solving all sorts of problems..
I can't imagine a world where systemd has solved a single problem all it's done is just ended up making things unnecessarily more convoluted.
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