What will happen to Windows?

JSM · 2021-06-04 12:33:05

We have had a difficult year in which some things happened that we do not fully understand yet.

Yet it seems like some particularly special people are deeply involved. And it seems like these people have realized that the truth is about to emerge. Or do you think they just get divorced by accident? It is more about getting the money "safe".

If my fears come true, there will be a storm of indignation around the world, very soon! And that will affect Microsoft too. I don't know how many users Windos has, but if only 25% switch to Linux, then you should be well prepared for it. It requires better structures, more project management, more controlling and more user-friendliness.

Linux will grow and that creates problems, like everywhere when something grows. But you can learn from the mistakes of others

Last edited by JSM (2021-06-04 12:34:08)

dice · 2021-06-04 13:40:25

i just hope the linux kernel remains untainted as much as possible from the influences of microsoft and other big tech companies. I know ill never visit microsoft products again and if this trend spreads it can only be a good thing imo.

Last edited by dice (2021-06-04 13:41:06)

Dutch_Master · 2021-06-04 13:40:37

This is the Devuan forum, not Reddit. Just FYI.

golinux · 2021-06-04 15:35:15

Dutch_Master wrote:

This is the Devuan forum, not Reddit. Just FYI.

+1

JSM · 2021-06-04 17:40:22

Off-topic
If it doesn't relate to Devuan, but you still want to share it, please do so here.

Looks all good At least here in the forum.

golinux · 2021-06-04 17:55:59

Freedom is a double edged sword so actions should be chosen with care.

zapper · 2021-06-05 09:57:16

golinux wrote:

Freedom is a double edged sword so actions should be chosen with care.

Indeed... and I think four freedoms isn't enough, we need a fifth one, the freedom to not be vendor locked in to one type of way to run any software, aka, stuff like systemd, dbus, etc...

shouldn't be forced on people in situations where they really aren't needed. One example, dhcpcd-ui only requires dbus in certain distros...

If you build it from source, it does not require dbus.

So... that's a good sign bs depends are being forced down people's throats. ;/

This happens with other packages from debian and archlinux also.

hplip for example... is one.

zapper · 2021-06-05 10:00:33

JSM wrote:

We have had a difficult year in which some things happened that we do not fully understand yet.
Yet it seems like some particularly special people are deeply involved. And it seems like these people have realized that the truth is about to emerge. Or do you think they just get divorced by accident? It is more about getting the money "safe".
If my fears come true, there will be a storm of indignation around the world, very soon! And that will affect Microsoft too. I don't know how many users Windos has, but if only 25% switch to Linux, then you should be well prepared for it. It requires better structures, more project management, more controlling and more user-friendliness.
Linux will grow and that creates problems, like everywhere when something grows. But you can learn from the mistakes of others

On this subject, I say, I am of two minds, one I want microsoft to die, two... I don't want it to die in case something more sinister takes its place.

Apple is an example of something though that I honestly would be glad if it died.

Google also!

That being said, if more people move to linux, we should not cater to their proprietary needs outside of emulators and wine-staging type stuff and maybe certain non-required applications.

Putting crap into the kernel for the masses that causes insecurity is a no-no!

Camtaf · 2021-06-05 13:15:24

The reason most people use MS Windows is because it comes pre loaded onto their computer when bought.

Computers should all come with a choice of operating systems - not be 'locked in' to one company's software.

I buy mine without an O/S installed, even pre used ones, & therefore, have the choice of which system gets installed.

Altoid · 2021-06-05 21:54:47

golinux wrote:

Freedom is a double edged sword so actions should be chosen with care.

Indeed ...

I really fail to grasp how/why What will happen to Windows can actually be a topic, even here at the Off-topic forum.

Ah, yes ...
Forgot my pill. 8^/

A.

golinux · 2021-06-06 01:27:15

@Altoid (and others) . . . Censorship is a slippery slope. This post may be stupid and irrelevant but until the OP figures that out and kindly marks it as "solved", just try to ignore it. FWIW . . . I find it a bit embarrassing also. Devuan is better than this . . .

Altoid · 2021-06-06 13:06:34

Hello:

golinux wrote:

Censorship is a slippery slope.

Quite so ...
Very.
Not my intent.

golinux wrote:

... post may be stupid and irrelevant ...

Not stupid.
In another context/forum it would actually be a fitting subject.

In my opinion, I'd say it is (if anything) irrelevant.

golinux wrote:

Devuan is better ...

That was my idea.

Thanks.

Best,

A.

dice · 2021-06-06 14:54:38

golinux wrote:

@Altoid (and others) . . . Censorship is a slippery slope. This post may be stupid and irrelevant but until the OP figures that out and kindly marks it as "solved", just try to just ignore it. FWIW . . . I find it a bit embarrassing also. Devuan is better than this . . .

It will go away with time.

What i take from this is someone who is struggling to come to terms with the loss of windows because they have realized unix/gnu/linux can offer so much more. But in saying that, it must be hard to let go the familiarity of windows, you can see it in how people opt to create the look and feel of the windows desktop environment and then weirdly expect the functionality to appear because, "computer"!

Ogis1975 · 2021-06-06 16:47:18

I don't care about windows

golinux · 2021-06-06 18:06:18

@Altoid . . . perhaps "uninformed" would have been a better choice than "stupid".
It seems that jsm has never read Christopher Barry's Open letter to the Linux World. Perhaps he will understand Linux better if he chooses to do so. Alert . . . not PG 13 . . .

Those who think Linux should cater to idiots and droolers should go back to their Macs and Windoze boxen, and stop trying to 'fix' Linux. It wasn't fucking broken!

JSM · 2021-06-06 19:35:22

Well ... as always, you will find very different people on Linux forums.

One really had a good idea, suggesting that new computers could give a choice of which OS to install on the first boot. Or you can simply buy the new computer together with a USB stick that has the ISO you want. You install the OS and continue to use the USB stick for other purposes.

But this post is about something completely different Just "some" do not seem to understand this, resp. not want to understand. Linux has a chance to become the number 1 OS in the world with the most users. However, it will not work if "these Linux people" continue to think that every Linux user must first become as "intelligent" as these Linux users!

But maybe "these Linux people" want trillions of dollars to continue pouring into the pockets of people like Gates, Zuckerberg, Soros or others every year so that these people can then decide when to wear a mask or an aluminum hat? Ok if you like that.

So, the Linux community should prepare to cope with a mass exodus of Windows users. It takes a little more than "intelligent" sayings in a Linux forum. How about "Linux supporters" who help Windows users to install and configure Linux? These "Linux supporters" could visit Windows users at home and help directly. Or you can organize Linux days in a public place where Windows users can come by and get help. Or you can do it online, but it is difficult to give help online when the Windows user only has one computer and wants to install it. Or not?

Such "Linux supporters" could also be trained so that Windows users are protected by "specially intelligent Linux people". Such a training would also contain social, methodic and didactic elements, because these are mostly lacking. And the training could be standardized. In this case, graduates of the course could be provided with a certificate if they have successfully completed the course. That gives more security and trust and protects against "self-proclaimed Linux experts".

There is an organization here that could organize such things worldwide:

https://www.lpi.org/

Does anyone here already have a certificate from this organization?

Dutch_Master · 2021-06-06 22:28:32

JSM wrote:

Linux has a chance to become the number 1 OS in the world with the most users.

It can't. Linux doesn't have a chance to become the #1 most used OS on the planet. It already is

Android is based on Linux. No idea how much market share Android currently has, but it's substantial
Every time you hit a webpage on the WWW, Linux does its job serving it to you, from your router to the root server and back again. And for all other 5bn web users on this planet. Every day, every second, millions of times
About 99% of devices in your house use Linux in one form or another

But most people don't know, because Linux doesn't show off it's flashiness and stuff, it just does its job. And that's all that matters

golinux · 2021-06-07 00:04:54

Excellent point Dutch_Master. Add to that list the International Space Station and scientific research labs around the world and . . .

JSM is lobbying for Linux to coddle the "idiots and droolers" with something named "Linux" but which would in inevitably become "the same opaque, backdoored, user-tracking bullshit that Windows and Mac have become".

FWIW, that website makes me want to puke. The list of "Corporate Sponsors" says it all . . .

starbreaker · 2021-06-07 00:22:09

JSM wrote:

So, the Linux community should prepare to cope with a mass exodus of Windows users.

You first. Good luck teaching Eloi that if they want to use a Unix-like operating system and don't have a sysadmin to handle sysadmin stuff for them, then they will have to become their own sysadmins. Fortunately there are plenty of GNU/systemd distributions that try to be "user-friendly" by catering to Eloi who think that only Morlocks use the command line, and Devuan doesn't insist on being one of them.

starbreaker · 2021-06-07 00:23:40

golinux wrote:

FWIW, that website makes me want to puke. The list of "Corporate Sponsors" says it all . . .

Yeah, I'm not at all surprised that Pearson is one of them. Because a corporation that makes money off of overpriced certification exams sponsoring an organization that pushes credentialism is totally not self-dealing. Likewise IBM. Now that they own Red Hat it's obvious they want more GNU/systemd in the enterprise and on corporate desktops.

Last edited by starbreaker (2021-06-07 00:24:40)

Camtaf · 2021-06-07 08:36:40

How about "Linux supporters" who help Windows users to install and configure Linux?

We already had Linux User Groups who did this via Install Fests.

But what I do now is to install Linux onto old computers, & then give them to people who need a computer.

JSM · 2021-06-08 13:00:14

@Camtaf

Cool! I have the same idea and want to set up a network of Linux supporters who can help with the installation, preferably on site. I am now trying to set up a first website to pass on my own experiences, so the solutions of course, not the problems . I want to do it with a wiki and am currently struggling with Miraheze's translation feature. Apparently they still use page translation instead of entity translation. Or then it's a mixture! The main problem is the language switch for visitors, i.e. visitors who are not logged in. The thing does not work correctly and the visitor can only change the language of the sidebar, menu and footer. The page remains in the standard language. If you then click again on the page in the sidebar to display the correct language version, the language of the sidebar jumps back to the standard language and the page also remains in the standard language . The only way that works at the moment is to go to shows an additional language switcher on top of the sidetext, which is pretty ugly. It also shows all defined languages and therefore gets very large at some point. Ok, but at the moment it is like that and I use it for the main page. Now I am building the rest of the pages on, so the structure and the links in the sidebar. For now only in English. Then I will take care of the translation and the correct function of the language switch in the sidebar, or in the top right above the page text. Yes, it now has 3 !! But it has to be possible, because it also works with Wikipedia and that is also based on MediaWiki. Just a question of the right extensions, I think.

It's a shame that some here don't want to understand . Obviously, their own ideology is more important to these people than the welfare of millions of computer users who are still being ripped off by Microsoft (and others). But it will change. Whether If a user uses a distribution with or without systemd, we can leave to the user. After all, the Linux supporters can explain this topic and make the user aware of the advantages and disadvantages. It's the same when you buy a car or something else. There are always different versions and manufacturers. The world will not end because of systemd and not without it. But maybe with the crazy things that Gates & Co. do with their money?

golinux · 2021-06-08 14:28:01

JSM wrote:

It's a shame that some here don't want to understand .

Exactly. And never the 'twain shall meet. Religious zealotry doesn't work very well. As the old adage says so wisely . . . you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

I've been around Linux for a while. My first Linux installation (Redhat) was done at a local Linux "installfest" almost 20 years ago. That was years before Fedora or Ubuntu etc.. Sadly, most LUGs have gone the way of the dodo including mine in a city awash in tech. Times changed and getting people together at a specific time and physical location no longer worked. Then older members died one after the other. Then the LUG mailing list died in part because there were so many diverse options popping up online.

In all the years since then, not one of my Windows- or Mac-using friends has taken an interest in Linux despite their dissatisfaction with what they were/are using. And these are well-educated, intelligent, professional people. The one victory I had was to get a sensitive mail list off of google and on to riseup but it took years before they figured out why it was a good thing to do.

I am old. I am tired. The world spins on in its own way.

But hey, everybody needs a hobby so go for it. Experience is the best if not the only teacher . . .

JSM · 2021-06-08 22:10:27

@golinux

Yes, I'm a little tired too. It's almost 7 p.m. And that happens to me every day! 53 years and a small pancreas. Maybe she'll do it until 60? If not, I don't particularly like fruit juices

One shouldn't hold a grudge against Windows users. I was one too, starting out as an IT engineer at the cantonal building construction office in Zurich. 250 users, they were all networked at the exact moment I started the job. Windows 3.11 and Novel Server! Fortunately, my main task was project management in software procurement And we had a very good network team, one level higher, that is, at the central management. After 3 years I left, I had seen enough corruption. Millions of CHF illegally passed on to friendly entrepreneurs, at management level There isn't much you can do about it, except blow the whistle at the cantonal parliament. And it worked

Then 10 years of self-employed project management and 15 years (parallel) as a lecturer at different schools. That makes you tired.

But thank God (and I mean it), at the age of 33 there was a turning point in my life More time for me, more time to read (philosophy, psychology, religion), more time to hike in nature, more time for God. But as you can see, you can't get away completely. Because why did God want me to study IT? But with my experience at work, in life and with God (and the last one is central), I've learned to solve things in a different way. And I also learned to deal with the hatred that is brought towards me

Yes, my story is long, my name is not JSM (Juan Stephanus Maria), but that's what I would be called if I had stayed with the Carthusian monks in Vermont in 2013. But as I said: Why did God want me to study IT? Why did he let me read all these many books? Why did he take me out into the wide world? Why did he put me in so many difficult situations? So that I shut up? Certainly not

I am now starting my wiki and still I have not found a solution to the above problem. Language switching for users who are not logged in at MediaWiki (Miraheze) does not work. As soon as I have the English version, I'll try again. If it doesn't work, I'll probably have to set up my own MediaWiki to test why it doesn't work. At Drupal, I was able to do it when I made a small website in 2015. Entity Translation and everything worked. MediaWiki is Drupal, isn't it?

have a nice evening, golinux

EDIT 20:16

Here the link to the supprot from Miraheze with some links. But I have removed the most of them since then. Hope they will answer, when they have time. I would like to do the Wiki there, because it is good for them and for me. So may WikiFrams are done, because now each one is setting up the same software again and again. Seems as we have to much free hosters

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Stewards … ed_page%3F

Last edited by JSM (2021-06-08 23:19:10)

andyprough · 2021-06-08 23:51:51

golinux wrote:

In all the years since then, not one of my Windows- or Mac-using friends has taken an interest in Linux despite their dissatisfaction with what they were/are using. And these are well-educated, intelligent, professional people. The one victory I had was to get a sensitive mail list off of google and on to riseup but it took years before they figured out why it was a good thing to do.

That's too bad. I've met people at my church fairly often who are using Linux at work or at home and work. It comes up as I give my adult Sunday School presentations and people see my desktop or my slides in LibreOffice or my video clips in MPV or Parole and ask, "hey, what distro is that?" Usually they'll say they use Mint or Ubuntu, which of course leads to enjoyable conversations about Devuan and systemd.

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2021-06-04 12:33:05

What will happen to Windows?

#2 2021-06-04 13:40:25

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#3 2021-06-04 13:40:37

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#4 2021-06-04 15:35:15

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#5 2021-06-04 17:40:22

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#6 2021-06-04 17:55:59

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#7 2021-06-05 09:57:16

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#8 2021-06-05 10:00:33

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#9 2021-06-05 13:15:24

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#10 2021-06-05 21:54:47

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#11 2021-06-06 01:27:15

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#12 2021-06-06 13:06:34

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#13 2021-06-06 14:54:38

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#14 2021-06-06 16:47:18

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#15 2021-06-06 18:06:18

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#16 2021-06-06 19:35:22

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#17 2021-06-06 22:28:32

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#18 2021-06-07 00:04:54

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#19 2021-06-07 00:22:09

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#20 2021-06-07 00:23:40

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#21 2021-06-07 08:36:40

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#22 2021-06-08 13:00:14

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#23 2021-06-08 14:28:01

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#24 2021-06-08 22:10:27

Re: What will happen to Windows?

#25 2021-06-08 23:51:51

Re: What will happen to Windows?

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