Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

rdav · 2019-07-23 01:04:49

Hi All

Just wondering about the move to Beowulf from Ascii.

Is it ready to upgrade from ascii with beowulf by changing the /etc/apt/sources.list and running apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade?
or is there a bit more to it that that?
other than doing backup

so sources.list in ascii

# ascii
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ ascii main contrib non-free
# ascii-updates
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-updates main contrib non-free
# ascii-backports
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-backports main contrib non-free
# ascii security
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ ascii-security main contrib non-free

is edited for beowulf:

# beowulf
deb http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf main contrib non-free
# beowulf-updates
deb http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf-updates main contrib non-free
# beowulf-backports
deb http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf-backports main contrib non-free
# beowulf security
deb http://au.deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf-security main contrib non-free

Looking forward to your tips and clues on this,

thanks in advance!

fsmithred · 2019-07-23 01:48:11

It depends on what you have installed and how good you are at getting around conflicts with the package manager. Scratch that. Package managers. Plural. Start with apt or apt-get upgrade, probably a couple times with a reboot in there, then try the dist upgrade and switch to aptitude when apt (and you) can't figure out what to do next.

Is this a system you actually use to do things you want to do? If it works, don't mess with it.

rdav · 2019-07-23 03:01:05

Hey fsmithred!

Thanks for the detailed rapid reply!

well, currently system is certainly super stable, functions well and easy to maintain!
thanks Veteran Unix Admins!

It just that I want to use Spacemacs layer over emacs which requires at least emacs-25. Hover Ascii has only emacs-24, while Beowulf has emacs-25.

Currently I have emacs-25+ on machines running other distros and wanting to move them all to Devuan, and this is the app requiring Beowulf!

Thanks again for the tips!

fsmithred · 2019-07-23 10:54:54

Looks like ascii has both of those versions. Am I looking at the wrong package?

$ apt-cache policy emacs25
emacs25:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 25.1+1-4+deb9u1
  Version table:
     25.1+1-4+deb9u1 500
        500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main amd64 Packages

$ apt-cache policy emacs24
emacs24:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 24.5+1-11+deb9u1
  Version table:
     24.5+1-11+deb9u1 500
        500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security/main amd64 Package

rdav · 2019-07-23 11:36:37

Hi fsmithred,

It the one! Thanks for that!

When I installed emacs with synaptic, I was given emacs24 and assumed only one version was possible... doh!

Now I know how to look again!

Half way in to the first apt-get upgrade download of 1640 packages, if beowulf doesn't work out I roll it back with timeshift

rdav · 2019-07-26 01:40:13

Hi fsmithred

I edited the sources.list and removed all the non-Devuan sources
eg Dropbox, Webmin and the ran apt-get as you suggested:

# apt-get update
# apt-get upgrade 
# apt-get dist-upgrade

Took overnight to download packages and install.

Some 5 packages were held back and used aptitude to find out why.
It was the ancient DM I use: "Slim".

Rebooted and Devuan Beowulf came up easily.

thanks!

GlennW · 2019-08-25 05:52:04

Thank you for your helpfull post(s), I am now running Beowulf/Plasma.

Regards Glenn

Last edited by GlennW (2019-08-25 05:52:24)

Altoid · 2020-09-05 16:37:48

Hello:

rdav wrote:

Hi fsmithred
... the ancient DM I use: "Slim".

After trying the two or three out there, I cannot but emphatically recommend SLiM to one and all.
It is not systemd compatible which is not an issue for us but probably the reason nobody is taking care of it these days.

A real pity.
With so many capable developers out there, going after the newest shiniest whatever instead of supporting/maintaining good software. :^ *

Cheers,

A.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-09-05 20:02:35

Altoid wrote:

I cannot but emphatically recommend SLiM to one and all

Maintenance for SLiM stopped in 2013 so any security issues will not be addressed.

For example it opens a log file as root and doesn't close the file handle properly before exec()ing the desktop session.

Try this:

echo foo >&3
tail -1 /var/log/slim.log
ls -l /var/log/slim.log
whoami

Altoid · 2020-09-05 21:12:32

Hello:

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Maintenance for SLiM stopped in 2013 so any security issues will not be addressed.

Yes, I know ...

That's why I said:

Altoid wrote:

A real pity.
With so many capable developers out there, going after the newest shiniest whatever instead of supporting/maintaining good software. :^ *

~$ echo foo >&3
bash: 3: Bad file descriptor
groucho@devuan:~$ tail -1 /var/log/slim.log
slim: waiting for X server to begin accepting connections.
~$ ls -l /var/log/slim.log
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 403312 Sep  5 15:44 /var/log/slim.log
~$ whoami
groucho
~$

I really wanted to avoid using anything and just log in and startx from the command line.
But it proved problematic for a number of reasons related to other parts of the system, so I went with the simplest and (to me) less problematic DM.

Unsupported and all, I believe BSD had it as the default DM at least up to a couple of years ago.

I recall having seen an article on-line where it was voted the best DM out of 19. (found it!).

Cheers,

A.

MiyoLinux · 2020-09-05 22:34:32

Altoid wrote:

Hello:
rdav wrote:
Hi fsmithred
... the ancient DM I use: "Slim".
SLiM...
It is not systemd compatible
A.

I may hang myself here, but I've built some Debian respins with live-build by request. I read in the Arch wiki that systemd doesn't play nicely with slim, so I used Lightdm in those builds.

In each one, I replaced lightdm with slim while testing them (for myself) for several weeks. I never had any issues with it on Debian/systemd.

Not sure what the issue is or could be...but then again...it didn't matter to me.

LOLOL!

Last edited by MiyoLinux (2020-09-06 08:34:14)

brocashelm · 2020-09-06 07:40:31

Personally, I don't use display managers, so starting the X session via command line is simple enough for me. I remember liking LXDM a lot, and as far as I can recall, it's not at all affected by Systemd.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-09-06 09:10:59

Hmm, sorry about the file descriptor misinformation. I should have tested that first.

Altoid wrote:

I recall having seen an article on-line where it was voted the best DM out of 19

That's just silly — the best display manager is clearly no display manager at all

SLiM runs X under the root user whereas a console login followed by startx[0] results in the X server being run under the normal user, which is clearly a major advantage (as is the lack of DM overhead).

[0] Automate the process by adding this line to the end of ~/.profile:

[ $(tty) = /dev/tty1 ] && exec startx

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2020-09-06 09:11:39)

catprints · 2020-09-06 14:08:05

@hoas, ty just what I needed to remove slim and skip extra "startx command". (with devuan)Now how about freebsd and alpine if I
want your efforts rather then my own? Seriously, thanks.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-09-06 16:40:01

catprints wrote:

how about freebsd and alpine

The posted snippet will also work for Alpine but X won't be run under the normal user so I would actually recommend to install elogind and sway instead and then disable the setuid bit on the sway binary for a rootless desktop.

To start sway use

[ $(tty) = /dev/tty1 ] && exec sway

For FreeBSD you can also use that snippet but replace /dev/tty1 with the output of the tty command when it is run from the default login TTY (I don't use FreeBSD so I'm not sure how the consoles are identified).

catprints · 2020-09-06 19:24:27

Thanks much. Appears freebsd uses ttyv0 at login and x is on(at?) ttyv8.Anyway startx is fine for the moment.
I,m learning some stuff. Remembering it would be helpful. lol I appreciate all the helpful info.

Altoid · 2020-09-06 20:36:44

Hello:

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

... sorry about the file descriptor misinformation.

It's quite allright.
Happens.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

... best display manager is clearly no display manager ...

I would have to agree ...

But (if I recall correctly) not having a DM brought along quite a few (permission?) issues that surfaced while I was installing ASCII.
Cannot recall but installing SLiM solved everything right away and that was it.

So that's why I use SLiM.
I didn't even want the log-on process to execute startx.

I've set it up as simple as possible.
A dark screen with a cursor line: no 'USER', 'PASSWORD' or field to fill out, no 'Shutdown', 'Reboot' or 'Session'.

I wanted to also eliminate the cursor (I know there's a way in the SLiM config file) but never go around to it.

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

SLiM runs X under the root user whereas a console login followed by startx[0] results in the X server being run under the normal user, which is clearly a major advantage

Indeed it is.

Being things as they are, for the moment I have no choice but to stay with SLiM.
And still think it is a real pity it has been abandoned.

Cheers,

A.

golinux · 2020-09-06 21:12:06

@Altoid . . . perhaps you could adopt, adapt and maintain SLiM for devuan . . . or even upstream . . .

Altoid · 2020-09-06 23:15:29

Hello:

golinux wrote:

. . . perhaps you could adopt, adapt and maintain SLiM for devuan . . .

Thanks for the suggestion.
I was expecting it, it is not as if I have never heard it. 8^7

But I am not a coder or programmer, just an advanced (?) user with a few years of (more hardware than software) experience but who can't find his way around bash.

Actually, I'm an architect by trade who got into IT to make ends meet when recession and lack of work hit me broadside in 1995.
As you can imagine, I'd have no idea where to start and at 65+ I'm rather past the point of wanting to find out.

But IMO, the truth is that as SLiM is not news, shiny or desired, one wants to maintain it.

Like I said, a pity.

A.

coyotito · 2020-10-04 11:27:57

brocashelm wrote:

Personally, I don't use display managers, so starting the X session via command line is simple enough for me. I remember liking LXDM a lot, and as far as I can recall, it's not at all affected by Systemd.

The uber coolest of all login managers is WDM - (GnuStep - Windowmaker based). GUI selection of WMs and DEs and all, and it is maintained I believe.

coyotito · 2020-10-04 11:34:24

BTW I successfully upgraded a (non-production of course) antiX 18 installation to Beowulf.
There were only some minor problems. As I needed a 'daily driver' it got replaced with Artix OpenRC Xfce.

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2019-07-23 01:04:49

Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#2 2019-07-23 01:48:11

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#3 2019-07-23 03:01:05

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#4 2019-07-23 10:54:54

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#5 2019-07-23 11:36:37

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#6 2019-07-26 01:40:13

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#7 2019-08-25 05:52:04

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#8 2020-09-05 16:37:48

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#9 2020-09-05 20:02:35

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#10 2020-09-05 21:12:32

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#11 2020-09-05 22:34:32

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#12 2020-09-06 07:40:31

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#13 2020-09-06 09:10:59

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#14 2020-09-06 14:08:05

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#15 2020-09-06 16:40:01

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#16 2020-09-06 19:24:27

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#17 2020-09-06 20:36:44

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#18 2020-09-06 21:12:06

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#19 2020-09-06 23:15:29

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#20 2020-10-04 11:27:57

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

#21 2020-10-04 11:34:24

Re: Upgrading from Ascii to Beowulf

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