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#1 2019-03-14 17:47:22

devuanuser
Member
Registered: 2019-03-14
Posts: 4  

Burnt burnt burnt...

I was not aware of the systemd trojan horse as a debian user until recent.
Recently I started getting horrible compatibility problems and it took me 6 months to figure out what the cause was.

I didnt notice that sysv was silently replaced with systemd and that sysv was seemingly emulated within systemd as systemd-sysv.
Really sneaky and absolute subterfuge to any sysadmin.

I had so many things on Debian that stopped working correctly . Samba,sshfs,some cron calls and many other user side software packages.  The chaos created with Cron was the most annoying as systemd had no regard for cron and just installed anacron and started it alongside cron without any knowledge that it is actually running and competing with cron if you queried it through apt and dpkg.  After enormous cron problems I traced the issue back to  anacron and eventually systemd which installed it in parallel. Uninstalling all the bogus competitive daemons systemd performed I had cron back up working as it should with my extensive scripts.

So I am parting ways hard with systemd and Debian/redhat/Ubuntu and my company and I personally will follow the fork and go a different way with Devuan and or the other Sysv distros. I understand that the forks will create some stability issues initially, but rather that than the absolute dictatorial fascist systemd arrogance I experienced from their evangelists on line. It seems to me as if the systemd movement is paid for by a powerful rich invisible hand. I really smell a rat reading the way these systemd people behave. I have seen this before.

After the introduction:
One question.

Is there a way to for example migrate a Debian Stretch system to Devuan.
All it should take as first step is to remove systemd and replace it with sysv-core, but I ask if such migration maybe exist as I have several servers I need to migrate. Clean new install is probably the best option, but I thought I ask anyway.

Last edited by devuanuser (2019-03-14 19:09:13)

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#2 2019-03-14 18:14:39

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,543  

Re: Burnt burnt burnt...

devuanuser wrote:

One question.

Is there a way to for example migrate a Debian Stretch system to Devuan.
All it should take as first step is to remove systemd and replace it with sysv-core, but I ask if such migration maybe exist as I have several servers I need to migrate. Clean new install is probably the best option, but I thought I ask anyway.

Welcome!  Unfortunately, your story is not unique.  The following guides should answer your questions:

https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/

and do read the release notes:
https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt

Please post here if you run into difficulties.

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#3 2019-03-14 18:21:27

ToxicExMachina
Member
Registered: 2019-03-11
Posts: 35  

Re: Burnt burnt burnt...

The most reliable way is clean install. You can also perform migration without clean install according to following manual: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev … e-to-ascii

You can also make new backup of one server and try migration.

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#4 2019-03-14 18:52:55

devuanuser
Member
Registered: 2019-03-14
Posts: 4  

Re: Burnt burnt burnt...

Thank you both, browsing through the links I have all I need. I will try one migration on a server. Easy to back up system as it has hot swp drives.

I read there is also the option of no-dbus devuan
That is even greater news. I must yet start an application using dbus that doesnt throw a slew of errors in the logs.
I wonder who thought up that horrible system.
Dbus has been a pain in my side for many years. It behaves like a headless nick.

You are definitely going the right direction.

Last edited by devuanuser (2019-03-14 18:54:10)

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#5 2019-03-14 20:37:14

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,543  

Re: Burnt burnt burnt...

The no-dbus thing is still a DIY option not an official one.  If you're not running a DE it's pretty easy to do w/o dbus.  A full blown desktop, not so much.  There was recently some interesting dbus-related discussion on the DNG mail list.

Several years there was an attempt to get Kay Sievers' kdbus into the kernel.  Linus slapped it down.  Now that he's been neutered by the SJWers and GKH is in charge, I anticipate another attempt.  Here's some history:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments … _to_merge/

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#6 2019-03-14 20:50:44

devuanuser
Member
Registered: 2019-03-14
Posts: 4  

Re: Burnt burnt burnt...

kdbus slows everything down considerably. It does the opposite of what it was set out to do.
As if dbus is not bad enough.
My biggest bottlenecks through the years were
selinux
dbus
and now systemd.
Wasted  probably the equivalent of years of time dealing with these three abominations.

Thank god we still have the option to fork.
But that would probably not showing "empathy" for the branch you are forking from, so the ethics police will eventually attack that too.
I am really soooo done with debian/redhat/fedora/ubuntu. They lost me forever.

Anyway, thanks for the fast response, I will start using it soon.

Last edited by devuanuser (2019-03-14 23:55:45)

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#7 2019-03-15 00:27:26

fsmithred
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,019  

Re: Burnt burnt burnt...

Welcome home! Not sure if you saw my no-dbus experiment: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2158
I just happened to be looking at that again today with a mind to create a live-sdk blend for the no-dbus build. (live-sdk is for automated building of live-CD isos.)

Here's one I made (manually) in September. Um, two nodbus builds; i386 and amd64. The one with bpo in the name is ascii with backports kernel (and with dbus.)
https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/

These isos are POC and fun, but probably not for production.

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#8 2019-03-15 18:00:35

devuanuser
Member
Registered: 2019-03-14
Posts: 4  

Re: Burnt burnt burnt...

This will be helpful to test on some of the servers I want to migrate.
Would be interesting to see what life after dbus looks like. Will be a great experiment.

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