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marcoapc

Member

Registered: 2018-11-06

Posts: 1  

Can Devuan have kFreeBSD?

Since Devuan uses *BSD compatible inits, it could continue the kFreeBSD Project, and call the old kFreeBSD devs to help this task!

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w3

Member

Registered: 2018-08-27

Posts: 21  

Re: Can Devuan have kFreeBSD?

Is a very good question.

Webtyro

Member

Registered: 2018-03-13

Posts: 8  

Re: Can Devuan have kFreeBSD?

Is a very good question.

I agree.
Since Linus has taken his sabbatical from the kernel, I dare say that many others might be contemplating this as well.
I was looking into kFreeBSD when running Squeeze. Was not sure why they dropped it back then, but I remember now
it was a sign of things to come. Could be a good way forward for Devuan. Systemd is not compatable with freeBSD kernel.
That fact alone brings a smile to my face. Devuan should run as hard and fast from PWNtering lunacy as possible.

Last edited by Webtyro (2018-11-06 16:13:53)

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golinux

Administrator

Registered: 2016-11-25

Posts: 3,318  

Re: Can Devuan have kFreeBSD?

No chance of that happening unless we have a massive influx of devs willing to take it on.

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Webtyro

Member

Registered: 2018-03-13

Posts: 8  

Re: Can Devuan have kFreeBSD?

No chance of that happening unless we have a massive influx of devs willing to take it on.

Yes it would, but you have to admit it is a good idea. Life is funny that way. It starts as a thought....
The party just started, we should let this cook for awhile. You can see they are going after the Linux kernel.
Just a thought.

Last edited by Webtyro (2018-11-06 16:27:05)

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arnaiz

Member

From: Leon

Registered: 2018-10-28

Posts: 28  

Website

Re: Can Devuan have kFreeBSD?

Because the expansion tendency of systemd, I always afraid that at any time the Linux kernel accept systemd code inside and the next step will be a hard dependency with it. Call me paranoid, but I don't think Linus leave the kernel leadership by chance.

So in that stage, have a second kernel option will be more than welcomed.

cynwulf

Member

Registered: 2017-10-09

Posts: 234  

Re: Can Devuan have kFreeBSD?

There is this well known quote:

"If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened."

~ Linus Torvalds

(386BSD was a predecessor to FreeBSD and NetBSD.)

FreeBSD or something BSD derived would have probably been the current "Linux" had things been a little different.

I suggest that though a Devuan with a FreeBSD kernel would be interesting, it would not really offer much over a standard FreeBSD installation or that of a FreeBSD desktop oriented derivative such as TrueOS or GhostBSD.  It won't really be of interest to current FreeBSD users.  FreeBSD's package management has come on leaps and bounds, so it's now possible to install all binary packages using an apt like tool called "pkg".

It would however be far more worthwhile than a GNU/Hurd iteration.

This is quite appealing: https://wiki.debian.org/Debian_GNU/kFreeBSD_why

Standardized kernel interfaces:
Single /dev implementation via devfs, instead of the 3 discordant ways of handling /dev that Linux provides.
OSS as the default sound system (i.e. the standard interface supported by almost every Unix-like system around).
OpenBSD Packet Filter (pf).
Security features, like jails.
Support for NDIS drivers in the mainline kernel. On Linux, NdisWrapper is unlikely to make it into the mainline kernel.
Support for ZFS in the mainline kernel. Due to license and patent issues, ZFS is unlikely to appear on Linux.
kFreeBSD is less vulnerable to legal issues. Licenses are managed in a centralized manner compared to Linux kernel's bazaar-like development model.
kFreeBSD developers often have more interest in merging new features rather than spawning forks all along (the port to Xbox is a very good example. See the responses from Linus Torvalds and kFreeBSD developers).
kFreeBSD may have better performance and/or stability especially in disk/filesystem areas with ZFS; but see EXT3 benchmark).
The FreeBSD kernel might support some hardware which Linux does not support and/or the FreeBSD kernel support might be better (fewer bugs)

Yes, devfs (instead of udev!), OSS (preferable to the ALSA/Pulseaudio mess), pf and jails...

It does seem like Mr and Mrs Devuan meeting for the first time, but before you get too excited...  the arguments presented above in this thread, i.e. that the Linux kernel will somehow get a "hard dependency" on systemd do not have any real substance.  One of the biggest "markets" for Linux is in embedded and particularly Android, which is massive and no systemd there.

The only people tying anyone in to systemd are the distributors (e.g. Debian/Canonical, Arch Linux and of course IBM/Red Hat), the big desktop environments (such as the gnome project) and various projects falling under the freedesktop.org banner.

If you avoid most of that shit, everything just works as before.

However, the FreeBSD kernel is arguably superior and I wouldn't be averse to seeing GNU/kFreeBSD moving over from Debian to Devuan - as it clearly no longer has any kind of place at the former...

Last edited by cynwulf (2018-11-07 11:54:30)