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#51 2024-01-29 20:23:33

alexkemp
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 278  

Re: merged /usr

rolfie wrote:

Looked at the linked FAQ:

Oh wow.

linked FAQ wrote:

(link)
Q: Does dpkg support merged-/usr-via-aliased-dirs?
A: No. This approach is considered broken by design and breaks many common expectations.

If you have a system that has been installed recently (since Debian buster) or switched via the usrmerge hack, you might want to consider … reinstalling. For further information see Teams/Dpkg/MergedUsr

Debian warningDebian officially only supports merged-/usr-via-aliased-dirs systems. Converting to an unmerged-/usr setup might break the system in unexpected ways in the future, including data loss or failure to boot.

Teams/Dpkg/MergedUsr wiki wrote:

(link)

Description

The main goal of the merged-/usr proposal is to merge the contents of several top root directories (/bin, /sbin, /lib*) into their counterparts in /usr.

merged-/usr-via-aliased-dirs

This approach goes behind dpkg's back, and has caused and do now cause problems due to the aliased directories …
Debian warningThis approach is considered broken by design and is unsupported by dpkg. dpkg-buildinfo marks packages built on these systems as tainted in the .buildinfo file.

Debian truly has lost it's way.

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#52 2024-01-30 09:50:38

soren
Member
Registered: 2023-04-30
Posts: 80  

Re: merged /usr

Sounds like team usrmerge vs team dpkg. From what i have read the dpkg maintainers are not going to provide a patch or any kind of fix. I think team usrmerge to rethink their goals, dpkg is a core debian component and this usrmerge is breaking user space.

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#53 2024-01-30 16:41:30

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 3,105  

Re: merged /usr

Never fear! pkgd may be on the horizon!!

Sorry couldn't resist . . . big_smile

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#54 2024-01-30 17:24:27

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 444  

Re: merged /usr

Never fear! pkgd may be on the horizon!!

You know how to inspire optimism! smile

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#55 2024-01-30 17:37:08

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 3,105  

Re: merged /usr

Optimism and pessimism are a fool's pastime. It is beneficial action in the present that can move mountains . . ..

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#56 2024-01-30 18:15:03

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 444  

Re: merged /usr

Optimism and pessimism are a fool's pastime.

But what about the episode in the sinking boat from the famous book - “Where is your faith?” smile

But seriously, the UNIX file system was logical, they have been breaking it for a long time and obviously they will break it.
There are two options: either don’t care, or switch to another distribution, fortunately there are still such ones.

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#57 2024-01-30 18:34:24

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 3,105  

Re: merged /usr

Sinking boat? Famous book? You lost me . . .

There are actually 3 options. You forgot about actually DOING SOMETHING besides talking about it.

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#58 2024-01-30 18:58:34

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 444  

Re: merged /usr

Book-Bible.
What can the user do?
Just “vote with your feet".

P.S. An extremely subjective opinion, if I may.
To the thesis “DO SOMETHING other than talk about it.”
It can only be destroyed spontaneously.
The creation process must be organized; there is even such a profession.
Therefore, in addition to calls, there must be some other organizational movements and, of course, not on the part of users.

Last edited by aluma (2024-01-30 19:34:58)

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#59 2024-01-30 21:51:41

soren
Member
Registered: 2023-04-30
Posts: 80  

Re: merged /usr

golinux wrote:

Never fear! systemd-dpkgd may be on the horizon!!

fixed that for you!

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#60 2024-02-12 00:40:36

mirrortokyo
Member
Registered: 2021-04-08
Posts: 39  

Re: merged /usr

Package kmod 31+20240202-1 broke kernel builds for me, downgrading to kmod / libkmod2 to 31-1 fixed things.

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#61 2024-02-14 00:14:12

mirrortokyo
Member
Registered: 2021-04-08
Posts: 39  

Re: merged /usr

Reverted in the latest update:

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 17:33:24 +0100
Source: kmod
Architecture: source
Version: 31+20240202-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Marco d'Itri <md@linux.it>
Changed-By: Marco d'Itri <md@linux.it>
Closes: 1063749
Changes:
kmod (31+20240202-2) unstable; urgency=medium
.
* Stop using /usr/lib/modules/ because it requires coordination with other
packages. (Closes: #1063749)

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#62 2024-02-14 10:31:21

Fruchtenstein
Member
Registered: 2024-01-12
Posts: 6  

Re: merged /usr

I just had to create `build` and `source` symlinks in `/lib/modules/6.6.13-amd64` to build VirtualBox modules.

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#63 2024-02-19 18:23:10

mirrortokyo
Member
Registered: 2021-04-08
Posts: 39  

Re: merged /usr

login 1:4.13+dfsg1-4 moved to /usr/bin

from /usr/share/doc/login/changelog.Debian.gz:

shadow (1:4.13+dfsg1-4) unstable; urgency=medium

  [ Helmut Grohne ]
  * DEP17: Move login and shadowconfig to /usr. (Closes: #1059915)

After the upgrade, I needed to do:

cd /bin
ln -s /usr/bin/login login

otherwise login via console/virtual terminal/telnet with ssl failed

Thankfully, desktop login still worked after the upgrade and before adding the symbolic link.

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#64 2024-02-20 14:36:17

mirrortokyo
Member
Registered: 2021-04-08
Posts: 39  

Re: merged /usr

now package base-files in Devuan unstable (13devuan4) requires package usrmerge.

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#65 2024-02-20 22:37:45

czeekaj
Member
Registered: 2019-06-12
Posts: 139  

Re: merged /usr

Sinking boat? Famous book? You lost me . . .

There are actually 3 options. You forgot about actually DOING SOMETHING besides talking about it.

Book-Bible.
What can the user do?

golinux is right
idle worship is not much better than idol worship.
Good work on the usrmerge guys smile
May Devuan live long and prosper!

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#66 Yesterday 08:15:04

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 444  

Re: merged /usr

Good work on the usrmerge guys smile

What are you happy about?
Another success in trying to break the logical perfection of the Unix file system?

After all, there was order, settings only in the /etc folder, the /mnt folder for mounted disk drives, the executable files of the system itself in /bin and /sbin, the graphics subsystem, which could be on a completely different machine in a different location, etc.

Now all this is “smeared” across the entire disk and dumped into one heap.
I do not want and will not “test” merged /usr, but I also do not have the opportunity to prevent it.

Programmers have nothing better to do? Are there any other problems for users?
We still tune the sound by dancing with a tambourine...

Thank God not everyone is delighted with this and there are sensible people who ignore systemd.

I really thank them.

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#67 Yesterday 12:45:03

stopAI
Member
Registered: 2023-04-04
Posts: 118  

Re: merged /usr

Another success in trying to break the logical perfection of the Unix file system?

How good that we have a choice and we can always choose FreeBSD. And this is not my sarcasm.

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#68 Yesterday 15:33:00

boughtonp
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2023-01-19
Posts: 187  
Website

Re: merged /usr

alume wrote:
> Another success in trying to break the logical perfection of the Unix file system?

It was "broken" back in the 1970s, by Ken and Dennis themselves; long before Linus or Ian even touched a computer, or Richard got annoyed with Xerox.

Even though I agree that moving bin, lib and sbin into /usr is not the right solution, it is a minor issue compared to so many other problems.

-
In any case it's good that the Devuan team have made a clear announcement to follow Debian's lead on this and focus efforts on the Devuan project's stated aims.


3.1415P265E589T932E846R64338

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#69 Yesterday 15:56:19

swanson
Member
Registered: 2020-04-22
Posts: 80  

Re: merged /usr

Found this on the interwebs and it sounds logical to me:

There's a link there to a ten-year-old post about why they were separate in the first place, which is what I was wondering. Briefly, it dated from when hard drives were 1.5 Mbytes, and everything couldn't fit on a single drive, so they had to split it between what was needed immediately while booting, and what could wait until a second drive was mounted.

On Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmint/comm … necessary/
The mentioned link:
http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busy … 74114.html

If all this is true, I don't feel so grumpy anymore.

(a long time ago I bought a 105 megabyte SCSI HD for like 350 USD - and that was cheap)

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#70 Yesterday 16:34:26

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 527  

Re: merged /usr

I remember the computers at work were similar in how they worked,

first I had to start the machine, go and get a coffee (because it would take so long), login to the network and then proceed to load the programs I would need for the day.

This was long before I had any interest in computing, it was just work (selling spare parts for transport (people) air conditioning in the 80's)

I'm not sure what brand they were. But I loved getting the office girl to help me create macros to simplify my job.

I see your point, swanson. And I feel the same way, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's getting more and more like M$ file systems.

What I'd like to see is a selection box in the installer program for stand-alone PC's, no extra networking or accessibility fluff doing nothing.

I see the usr-merge as another step towards breaking older systems. "You'll need to pay a tech to fix that!" remember y2k?

Last edited by GlennW (Yesterday 16:35:37)


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#71 Yesterday 17:40:29

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn
Member
Registered: 2023-11-27
Posts: 46  

Re: merged /usr


Be Excellent to each other and Party On!
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rph_1DODXDU
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Ted%27s_Excellent_Adventure
Do unto others as you would have them do instantaneously back to you

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#72 Today 00:46:31

GlennW
Member
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 527  

Re: merged /usr

I'll be 75 If I live that long to make it to 2038. I hope I/we figure out a solution before that.

Seems like it's just part of the progression of Moore's law. We have 64bit for a lot of things already...

I guess it will depend if the Corps want to spend the money or not. Their investment will profit either way, imho.


pic from 1993, new guitar day.

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#73 Today 01:51:42

mirrortokyo
Member
Registered: 2021-04-08
Posts: 39  

Re: merged /usr

update-initramfs broke when it couldn't find blkid

cd /sbin
ln -s /usr/sbin/blkid blkid

fixed things.

I also put package base-files on hold because in unstable it now depends on package usrmerge

I'll finally check /bin /lib /sbin for files other than symbolic links and see if I can finally manually make /bin /lib /sbin symbolic links to /usr/bin /usr/lib /usr/sbin

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