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#1 2023-12-21 16:37:57

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn
Member
Registered: 2023-11-27
Posts: 46  

trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

he is using beowulf and evolution mail client version 3.30.5

attempting to switch him to daedalus and evolution 3.42.4

he hates any/all change and the newer evolution is way out there(wtf, "header-bar"?)

any thoughts?

edited for clarity.

Last edited by stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn (2023-12-21 16:39:09)


Be Excellent to each other and Party On!
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rph_1DODXDU
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Ted%27s_Excellent_Adventure
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#2 2023-12-21 18:16:21

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,366  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

Hello:

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn wrote:

... 100yr-old father computing for another year

Great!
Good for you.  8^D

But ...
Why just another year?

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn wrote:

... beowulf and evolution mail client version 3.30.5

And?
I use Devuan Beowulf on a backported kernel on a Sun U24 box from 2007 (Intel Q9550/8Gb).

~$ uname -a
Linux devuan 5.10.0-0.deb10.16-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.127-2~bpo10+1 (2022-07-28) x86_64 GNU/Linux
~$ 

Both the box and I run perfectly well, for the time being.

I have no need for Daedalus or one of those newfangled webmail clients (wft invented that crap, MS?).
I have used Pegasus Mail (POP3/SMTP) for the last 25+ years and don't plan to stop using it.

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn wrote:

... hates any/all change ...

I can very easily relate to that.
And I still have 30 to go till I reach 100.

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn wrote:

... thoughts?

My thoughts, YMMV:

I lost my father when he turned 82 back in 2010, would have turned 95 next June.
Your still having yours at 100 and using a computer is a luxury life is very generously gifting you with.

                                                          Learn to appreciate it

Bottom line?

Do not fuck around with a 100 year old chap's OS or email client.
Just do proper maintenance, help him out when needed and otherwise leave him and his box to their doings.

Best,

A.

Last edited by Altoid (2023-12-22 16:48:24)

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#3 2023-12-21 18:20:25

aluma
Member
Registered: 2022-10-26
Posts: 444  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

I fully support it!
It works, don't touch it.

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#4 2023-12-21 18:23:13

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 1,011  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

There is no way to avoid this Windows style decoration in Evolution on Daedalus. Stay on Beowulf or at the most upgrade to Chimaera.

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#5 2023-12-22 12:56:29

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn
Member
Registered: 2023-11-27
Posts: 46  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

except as per this wikipedia webpage, End of Support for Beowulf is June 30th, 2024

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devuan#Version_history

so Daedalus(and the more-current version of Evolution) were mostly for support status

thanks for all the replies!


Be Excellent to each other and Party On!
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rph_1DODXDU
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Ted%27s_Excellent_Adventure
Do unto others as you would have them do instantaneously back to you

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#6 2023-12-22 15:44:55

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 3,105  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

Note that to get to Daedalus from Beowulf you have to go through Chimaera first and that might be a good place to hang for a year or two . . .

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#7 2023-12-22 16:13:28

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn
Member
Registered: 2023-11-27
Posts: 46  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

golinux wrote:

Note that to get to Daedalus from Beowulf you have to go through Chimaera first and that might be a good place to hang for a year or two . . .

did a fresh install of Daedalus on a new ssd to leave the Beowulf installation unmolested and so didn't do any "upgrading" but understand your point.


Be Excellent to each other and Party On!
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rph_1DODXDU
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Ted%27s_Excellent_Adventure
Do unto others as you would have them do instantaneously back to you

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#8 2023-12-22 16:17:27

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 1,011  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

Well also from me: I think Chimaera would be a good compromise. Longer maintenance but still the old design of Evolution though a bit newer than the Beowulf package.

Last edited by rolfie (2023-12-22 16:18:35)

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#9 2023-12-23 12:27:17

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn
Member
Registered: 2023-11-27
Posts: 46  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

the unspoken-but-acknowledged-subtext of the conscious decision to go from Beowulf(EOL-20240630) to Daedalus(EOL-2028ish) was/is perhaps subconsciously some denial/reluctance to fully admit his days are indeed numbered(not that any of us knows our exact dates/fates).

again, heartfelt thanks to all who considered and replied!

Last edited by stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn (2023-12-23 12:28:20)


Be Excellent to each other and Party On!
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rph_1DODXDU
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Ted%27s_Excellent_Adventure
Do unto others as you would have them do instantaneously back to you

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#10 2023-12-23 13:30:01

Altoid
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,366  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

Hello:

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn wrote:

.. fully admit his days are indeed numbered ...

It is an undeniable trait of humanity the failure to acknowledge that the days of each one of us are indeed numbered.

Eons go by and it remains the same, unchanged.
Literature of all kinds, from all ages, civilizations and beliefs attest to that.

So worry not and enjoy+thank life for the wonderful gift you have been bestowed.

Merry [fill in] and a Happy [fill in] for you and your father.

Best,

A.

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#11 2023-12-30 10:57:15

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn
Member
Registered: 2023-11-27
Posts: 46  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

rolfie wrote:

There is no way to avoid this Windows style decoration in Evolution on Daedalus. Stay on Beowulf or at the most upgrade to Chimaera.

is it possible that libgtk3-nocsd0 would help?

apt show libgtk3-nocsd0

Package: libgtk3-nocsd0
Version: 3-1
Priority: optional
Section: libs
Source: gtk3-nocsd
Maintainer: Christian Seiler <christian@iwakd.de>
Installed-Size: 49.2 kB
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4)
Homepage: https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
Tag: role::shared-lib
Download-Size: 14.5 kB
APT-Sources: http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf/main amd64 Packages
Description: Library to disable Gtk+ 3 client side decorations (CSD)
 libgtk3-nocsd is a small LD_PRELOADable library used to disable the
 client side decorations (CSD) of Gtk+ 3.
 .
 Since Gtk+ 3.10, its developers added a so-called header bar or custom
 title bar. With this and the client-side decoration, the original
 title bar and window border provided by the window manager are
 disabled by Gtk+. This makes all Gtk+ 3 programs look like alike, but
 have different handling from other windows on non-GNOME desktops. Even
 worse, this may break some window manager or compositors.
 .
 Unfortunately, there is no reliable way of turning off CSDs in Gtk+
 directly. This library makes this possible.

also found this webpage(for i386? stuff):
ttps://packages.debian.org/buster/i386/libs/libgtk3-nocsd0

judging from the information at this webpage it doesn't solve the header bar issue:
ttps://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd

making this post more for documentation than any sort of resolution...sigh...still looking and hoping.


Be Excellent to each other and Party On!
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rph_1DODXDU
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Ted%27s_Excellent_Adventure
Do unto others as you would have them do instantaneously back to you

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#12 2023-12-31 21:31:40

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 258  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

an interesting case. the oldest person of my family did die last November with 97 y. She did refuse computer usage in the last years of her live (but was one of the first person having to really work intensively at the big computer console of a really Finance Minister of a world country!). My father did die 10 y. ago. Probably was his love to his PC a reason of the point of his dead because he did not have success to convert his knowledge (old 8 and 16 bit systems) into Windows 7. It was a reason of real despair and to find more live nonsens (at that time, we did have full access to all in the web! Without to have to "accept" or "pay"! It was an fully other time I think!) . He would be today ab. 99 y., the same generation also as your dad! I know the danger (I am ab. 78 y. old) as well in computer sciences as in sport: The target of your activity has to be accessible for you. Pilates is no problem (excepted one exercice), Ashtanga yoga is one but with little concession I have good chances to accede  to my goal...

Back from sport to PC: What does your father with his PC? One target is clear, we did read it: email correspondence. Ok, but what else?

Decades ago, a developer staff did design an OS especially for old person. It was a kind of mini Puppy Linux based on Ubuntu (with which it was 100 % compatible) so there was no limit (excepted the limits of the beginning Ubuntu itself! It did really have limits...).

The base did propose only a hand of activity:

- browse the web and electronic mail
- calculate
- write
- listen music
- skype (no distro at this stage of evolution without skype)!

With your continuous experience (my did finish, concerning old people excepted myself, with the dead of my own father) what would you do change in that definition?

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#13 2023-12-31 23:49:48

pcalvert
Member
Registered: 2017-05-15
Posts: 185  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

stargate-sg1-cheyenne-mtn wrote:

is it possible that libgtk3-nocsd0 would help?

Maybe. Here's some relevant info that may be helpful:

How do I disable client side decoration globally in GNOME?
https://askubuntu.com/questions/961161/ … y-in-gnome

gtk3-nocsd - transparently disable Gtk+3 client side decorations (CSD)
https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/no … csd.1.html

This change to Evolution was also discussed in this article:

Evolution Email Client Now Uses a Headerbar/CSD
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/09/evo … header-bar

The first comment shown in the comments section offers a potential solution.

EDIT:

If gsettings is not installed, install libglib2.0-bin.

For example:

# aptitude install libglib2.0-bin

Last edited by pcalvert (2024-01-01 00:08:01)


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#14 2024-02-08 21:48:20

HermanAB
Member
Registered: 2024-02-08
Posts: 3  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

Hmm, I am 64 but I sometimes feel like 100 and agree with everything Altoid said!

If you want to change your dad's system, rather give him an additional system, like an ultra fine resolution laptop from Apple. Any Apple lappy from the last ten years will do.  The reason I suggest Apple is that they are very good for people with failing eyesight.  As you get older you have more and more junk floating in your eyes and dim spots etc. and your short term memory gets bad, which makes it super annoying when a UI suddenly changes.  Maybe in a few weeks you will see him using the new one only and then you can recycle the old one.

I had cancer and the treatment affected my memory in subtle ways for a year or so and it recently started to recover, so I have much sympathy for old geezers now!

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#15 2024-02-09 16:12:08

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 1,011  

Re: trying to keep my 100yr-old father computing for another year

Finally tried to disable CSD on my Daedalus Cinnamon/Evolution setup: works fine. pcalvert's first link did the job.

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