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#1 2020-01-20 17:20:33

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 216  
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make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

The Trinity Desktop Environment (TDE) released TDE R14.0.7 version, the mayor feature are that compiles in alpine linux due recent support to Muslc... as complete software desktop environment designed for Unix-like operating systems, offers all the features of heavyweight desktops but fits in all low end computers.. it's so light as xfce4 inclusively as like LXDE desktop.

Devuan to differentiate and have less work should be allied with TDE, which does not depend on systemd and additional is complete, is like having a heavy desktop without heavy requirements, this would differentiate Devuan from other linux and help the development of both projects ...  a right decision could be join efforts and make the package as default desktop.. integrated into the main distro and make it the right choose for all Devuan users.. but for sure will goes to minimalist way and denies that idea!

https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

i take note about the EXE gnu linux but seems have not documentation and are not preproducible.. so why not join effors with TDE community? ovbiously TDE team are nto so open due seems are winbuntu related but.. well

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#2 2020-01-20 17:38:00

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

We discussed having Trinity in Devuan years ago.  It never went anywhere.  Trinity is available in the Devuan derivative Exe GNU/Linux - http://exegnulinux.net

Feel free to package Trinity for Devuan and we will consider including it.  If Xfce goes south I suspect we might move to a WM rather than full-blown desktop as the default.

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#3 2020-01-20 18:11:14

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 216  
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

golinux wrote:

We discussed having Trinity in Devuan years ago.  It never went anywhere.  Trinity is available in the Devuan derivative Exe GNU/Linux - http://exegnulinux.net

well as discusses with jaromil in the telegram group at the last weekend.. obtuses as always.. no wonder because it's hard to keep devuan.. well.. i just use it..

Feel free to package Trinity for Devuan and we will consider including it.  If Xfce goes south I suspect we might move to a WM rather than full-blown desktop as the default.

i try to make an effort as i do lasted years.. i provided some packages and well let's see what can be done... but "I suspect we might move to a WM rather than full-blown desktop" said that Devuan are not a solution for blind persons or end users.. sorry guys but.. that's not a path!

Last edited by mckaygerhard (2020-01-20 18:11:41)

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#4 2020-01-20 18:56:31

golinux
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

mckaygerhard wrote:

Devuan are not a solution for blind persons or end users.. sorry guys but.. that's not a path!

Wrong (as so much else in your post).  Devuan's minimal-live iso is customized to meet the needs of blind and visually impaired users.  If you don't like Devuan you have plenty of other choices.

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#5 2020-01-21 02:50:16

dzz
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From: Exmouth, South West England
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 30  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

Trinity is available in the Devuan derivative Exe GNU/Linux - http://exegnulinux.net

And is already packaged, working, supported and documented by TDE for all Devuan systems including Beowulf and Ceres https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/DevuanInstall

ExeGNU (which tracks current Devuan) includes a custom selected "minimal" TDE (and openbox) plus some custom scripts, packages and defaults.

Devuan mainstream didn't actually reject TDE but at this point probably has other priorities..

Last edited by dzz (2020-01-21 03:03:23)

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#6 2020-01-21 03:14:50

golinux
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

dzz wrote:

Trinity is available in the Devuan derivative Exe GNU/Linux - http://exegnulinux.net

And is already packaged, working, supported and documented by TDE for all Devuan systems including Beowulf and Ceres https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/DevuanInstall

ExeGNU (which tracks current Devuan) includes a custom selected "minimal" TDE (and openbox) plus some custom scripts, packages and defaults.

Devuan mainstream didn't actually reject TDE but at this point probably has other priorities..

Thanks for the update dzz.  Wish that we would see you here more often.  smile

If the work is done, I don't see why your TDE couldn't be added to the list of Desktop options as aitor and AntoFox have done.  It might have to be prepared in a certain way and code in Devuan's git . . . I'm not quite sure how that works.  I can bring it up at the next dev meet if you like.  It is probably too late for Beowulf but could certainly be considered for Chimaera.  Please let me know.

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#7 2020-01-21 03:40:05

dzz
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From: Exmouth, South West England
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 30  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

Wish that we would see you here more often

Me too but real-life situations don't always allow time..

I suspect a major obstacle to TDE getting wider acceptance is it installs to /opt rather than the normal /usr/bin/ ..
I don't know what anyone else thinks of that. Probably worth a post on the TDE mailing list..

That was originally done to avoid potential conflict with KDE4 but that *may* now be less relevant. All TDE package names now have a "-trinity" suffix.

I remember in the early days of Devuan, TDE was very easy to set up. It never did and still does not have systemd dependency. A full-featured DE that still idles on <<200MB ram!

Last edited by dzz (2020-01-21 03:44:02)

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#8 2020-01-21 03:53:21

golinux
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

Let's do explore this further, dzz.  I'm hoping that fsmithred weighs in on this tomorrow.  Just ;like old times, huh . . .

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#9 2020-01-21 11:35:01

omnio
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Registered: 2019-07-12
Posts: 15  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

golinux wrote:

If Xfce goes south I suspect we might move to a WM rather than full-blown desktop as the default.

Please consider moving to LXQT as well.
It's a full-featured desktop (or almost), and faster than both XFCE and LXDE.


Sometimes my English may sound strange because I'm not a native speaker.

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#10 2020-01-21 18:12:53

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 216  
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

omnio wrote:
golinux wrote:

If Xfce goes south I suspect we might move to a WM rather than full-blown desktop as the default.

Please consider moving to LXQT as well.
It's a full-featured desktop (or almost), and faster than both XFCE and LXDE.

it's clear that all of you dont use TDE any time! any body that tested TDE and LXQT see the clear  and faster difference between the TDE and the LXQT.. pcman already said on time ago that QT are more easy to develop but of course consumes a lot more rather GTK and now qt5 obviously consumes LOT more thant any TDE application..

later golinux said:

Wrong (as so much else in your post).  Devuan's minimal-live iso is customized to meet the needs of blind and visually impaired users.  If you don't like Devuan you have plenty of other choices.

if devuan will use on a wm only how the orca can read the positions?  and does not work..  puff

also refracta installer in live-cd does not work with orca! neither..

but take easy i currently tested the beowulf lasted with @Mijailo_Arsco : https://www.blindworlds.com/usuario/ver/mijailo-arsco to give another oportunity and see what are changed in devuan

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#11 2020-01-21 18:25:13

golinux
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Registered: 2016-11-25
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

FYI, we do have blind users on Devuan.  And the speakup community was consulted when the minimal-live iso was designed.  Perhaps something is getting lost in translation.  I do not always understand what you are trying to say like "sothen" in the topic of this thread.

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#12 2020-01-21 18:47:39

Ron
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Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 239  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

golinux wrote:
Perhaps something is getting lost in translation.  I do not always understand what you are trying to say like "sothen" in the topic of this thread.

I'm just guessing here but I think he means "so then Devuan as [will become] different [another] distro option," i.e., so then Devuan will become another distro option for people to consider.

Last edited by Ron (2020-01-21 18:48:53)

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#13 2020-01-21 18:55:25

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 216  
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

golinux wrote:

FYI, we do have blind users on Devuan.  And the speakup community was consulted when the minimal-live iso was designed.  Perhaps something is getting lost in translation.  I do not always understand what you are trying to say like "sothen" in the topic of this thread.

maybe a better response was "what are you triying to said with that .. or that.. etc" well.. try to not learn by the bad way..

trinity desktop cannot be in any debian oficial or devuan oficial repository YET due two reasons:

* uses prefix=/opt due the scheme naming convention namespaces respect kde ones
* there's still many applications with same name as kde4 counterparts
* there's too many defaults settings that are winbutu specific due developers seems used that, like sudo..

currently trinity team are made those changes but since raised kde4 that work are not finished yet! so if both teams join efforts can provide a complete desktop.. and i must point here that TDE are far far away more faster thant LXQT of course..

by example those issue not make sense in alpine deskop due alpine does not have kde4 related packages.. so are easyle in that case.. but devuan provides amarok from kde4 that have same applilcation name in the trinity suite...

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#14 2020-01-21 19:12:00

fsmithred
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Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,588  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

It might be possible for devuan and tde devs to collaborate in the future. Right now, there are too few of us, and we're all busy with other things. TDE would be an addition, not a replacement. We aren't planning on dropping any desktop environments, but we'll see how they work when we start playing with Chimaera.

@dzz: Nice to see you around! Hope all is well with you.

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#15 2020-01-21 19:20:14

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 216  
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

fsmithred wrote:

...Right now, there are too few of us, and we're all busy with other things.

how many years was passed .. umm only 3 years.. and there's less event more? puff we need change something for sure!

do you know that LXDE/LXQT git are directly the sources for packagin rather a tar watch as does traditionally with packages .. since almost always?

Last edited by mckaygerhard (2020-01-21 19:20:52)

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#16 2020-01-21 19:56:37

fsmithred
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

mckaygerhard wrote:

how many years was passed .. umm only 3 years.. and there's less event more? puff we need change something for sure!

do you know that LXDE/LXQT git are directly the sources for packagin rather a tar watch as does traditionally with packages .. since almost always?

It might be five years. I'm not sure. The major change that I see is that jessie was 2 years late (after the release of debian jessie) ascii was one year late, and beowulf is about half a year late.  Collaborative efforts have sprung up between devuan and debian, and as a result, elogind is available in debian. I see new devuan developers who have arrived in the past year, and we continue to get new users who thought they were ok with systemd but changed their minds after they used it for some time. I think we're doing just fine.

I'm aware that almost all packages start out as upstream tarballs that get turned into debian packages by debian developers.  They also get turned into other kinds of packages for other distros. But I don't understand what you're trying to say about lxde/lxqt.

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#17 2020-01-21 20:54:13

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 216  
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

fsmithred wrote:
mckaygerhard wrote:

do you know that LXDE/LXQT git are directly the sources for packagin rather a tar watch as does traditionally with packages .. since almost always?

I'm aware that almost all packages start out as upstream tarballs that get turned into debian packages by debian developers.  They also get turned into other kinds of packages for other distros. But I don't understand what you're trying to say about lxde/lxqt.

you will notice the labor saving by seeing that lxde packages do not use tarball but the upstream url directly!

It might be five years. I'm not sure. The major change that I see is that jessie was 2 years late (after the release of debian jessie) ascii was one year late, and beowulf is about half a year late.  Collaborative efforts have sprung up between devuan and debian, and as a result, elogind is available in debian. I see new devuan developers who have arrived in the past year, and we continue to get new users who thought they were ok with systemd but changed their minds after they used it for some time. I think we're doing just fine.

yikes thas explain all the noise around the elogind problem.. well at least elogind are still there.. resolution B are not the best but was something! i dont know if the resolution voted was a help .. but .. well systemd guys still are there .. lest see how will result all of this!

has been a great improvement but notice the psychological wear it has caused .. let's remember that you guys don't have all the free time in the world .. and that they are not always enough .. lest remenber the noise about devuan.pro ...

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#18 2020-01-21 21:53:18

James1138
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Registered: 2018-09-27
Posts: 32  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

Just throwing my 2 cents in. I tried several WM: OpenBox, FluxBox, IceWM and JWM (last 3 were part of AntiX when I was trying that out). Of the 4 WM that I tried - JWM was overall winner with applications menu and a taskbar/panel that is closest in function to those found on full desktop environments like XFCE. As for LxQT desktop environment - I found it nowhere near as "complete" as LXDE. For example LXDE offered applets for weather and other things that LxQt just does not have at this time. Maybe in time those thing will appear in LxQT - but for now when it comes down extras/accessories/applets/plugins - LXDE is the clear choice from my experience.

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#19 2020-01-21 22:02:11

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 216  
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

James1138 wrote:

Of the 4 WM that I tried - JWM was overall winner with applications menu and a taskbar/panel that is closest in function to those found on full desktop environments like XFCE..

seem do you not understand as "complete" but i try to clarify..

orca tryes to read any element on a window.. including those from proper window manager.. by exampel if you opens a windo menu from title bar.. will raise options like "stiky above" or "maximixe" or "over all desktop" but in case of openbvox that interface are GTK with proper theming..

blind persons that are one of my extreme examples wil lnot have a propeer support in devuan with refracta installer and al of those "derivates" work..

the other example, obviously if i try to install some things like oracle applications will fail ..

anydesk now install perfectly but ... well.. nomachine need tunning..

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#20 2020-01-22 09:58:14

omnio
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Registered: 2019-07-12
Posts: 15  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

James1138 wrote:

I tried several WM: OpenBox, FluxBox, IceWM and JWM (last 3 were part of AntiX when I was trying that out). Of the 4 WM that I tried - JWM was overall winner with applications menu and a taskbar/panel that is closest in function to those found on full desktop environments like XFCE.


+1

When it comes to minimalism, JWM is the winner in my opinion too:
- it's easy to configure (one single configuration file and you don't need instructions to figure out what to do)
- very easy to use (it follows the user model)
- it has an elegant look without tweaking (and you can easily change it in the configuration file).

Another very nice WM is WindowMaker but probably not everyone is used to it. However, it has this advantage that you don't have to manually edit its configuration files.

Last edited by omnio (2020-01-22 12:19:51)


Sometimes my English may sound strange because I'm not a native speaker.

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#21 2020-01-22 16:39:37

siva
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Registered: 2018-01-25
Posts: 232  
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

"If only there were a minimal version of devuan, where users could choose which desktop environment or window manager they wanted to use..."

For the record, if XFCE ever gets tanked or (even more) bloated, I'm all about a console-only devuan as the main base.

Then again, I'm also a psychopath when it comes to minimalism.  *places two cents in the jar*


the thomos project
thomos support thread
cynwulf wrote: "You should get some more sleep and spend less time on forums."

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#22 2020-01-23 04:39:51

ToxicExMachina
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Registered: 2019-03-11
Posts: 207  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

siva wrote:

For the record, if XFCE ever gets tanked or (even more) bloated

Now XFCE is second GNOME. It happened several years ago. There are tons of lightweight options for desktop. May be it's time to use FVWM. For console users there is also awesome desktop environment called GNU Emacs.

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#23 2020-01-23 14:05:01

mckaygerhard
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Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 216  
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Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

puff all the responses are "minimalist.. bloabed" but pretend to be "complete distro" .. minimalist does not work with blind persons.. yesterday tested devuan ascii and @mijailo arso reports that installer cause some problems https://t.me/DevuanGnuLinux/3165

it's not xtrange devuan ascii still cause problems for blind persons.. that not happened in debian 9 counterpart.. devuan 1.0 does not work well neither, important note: as it works for those who are in the forum/devel team, them ignore the real world outside, ... sad.. very sad

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#24 2020-01-23 14:17:37

HevyDevy
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Registered: 2019-09-06
Posts: 294  

Re: make TDE desktop default and sothen devuan as different distro option

mckaygerhard wrote:

puff all the responses are "minimalist.. bloabed" but pretend to be "complete distro" .. minimalist does not work with blind persons.. yesterday tested devuan ascii and @mijailo arso reports that installer cause some problems https://t.me/DevuanGnuLinux/3165

it's not xtrange devuan ascii still cause problems for blind persons.. that not happened in debian 9 counterpart.. devuan 1.0 does not work well neither, important note: as it works for those who are in the forum/devel team, them ignore the real world outside, ... sad.. very sad

stop being a try hard troll.

https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ease=ascii

https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ease=ascii

https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ease=ascii

https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pk … ease=ascii

Last edited by HevyDevy (2020-01-23 14:21:00)

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