I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

cynicfm · 2018-10-06 11:49:28

Hey

I am new to linux. I used to be guy called 'gamer' however that was in the past, because i am older now and not that i havent got time to play games anymore, but playing windows games is not productive.
I have recently bought Linux Format magazine. There are some interesting articles indeed. Apart from that there was CD with Linux Mint 32 bit, Linux Manjaro and some other linux distro.
So my first gnu/linux distro in general was ubuntu linux, but that was like 5 years ago. I liked it however i been travelling between windows 7/ubuntu at that time.
Next was Linux Mint.
I have also tried
Antergos
Fedora 28
Mint nosystemd (couldn't get wifi working cuz my wifi card is proprietary apparently)
SafeOS (had no wi-fi too)
PureOS
TrisquelOS (Wi-fi problems as well)
I tried all of em, recently installed manjaro 2 days ago and i have to say that systemd based distros are weird.. I don't understand why systemd gnu/linux distros users convice windows 10 users to quit and use 'linux' instead.

So basically i have used Devuan 2.0 for like 6 months. Never had any problems with it. It is light-weigh, xfce DE keeps my battery alive for like 3-4 hours. For example Manjaro or Antergos with newest Desktop Environments were like 30 minutes of battery life . Even windows was better, cuz windows 10 was like 1,5 hours (I bought windows laptop).
I agree that Linux Mint or Manjaro distros while running on my laptop, fan is like quiet. I can't hear my laptop running. However i don't know what's happening on these systemd OS's. How can you say systemd based distros are secure... I feel like windows 10 is more secure. Everytime i use systemd based distro i feel like some linux mint devs or manjaro devs watch me installing software, browsing internet or playing games... While Devuan Init is like i feel like i just installed OS and feels stable and secure and i feel like there's no way anybody can spy on me. Completely opposite to systemd distros.

Another thing is that i really support Free Open-Source Software. This is why i tried PureOS and Trisquel. I am too inexperienced to install OS with terminal, i am more like newbie... But it seems like all GNU supported OS's are based on Systemd.
When i used them i always had that website in my head: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
I think somebody says boykott systemd, i basically boykott google. I think me or them who created this website have similar concerns towards these two subjects (google, systemd).

Another thing is Steam. 'Linux' users (I know it's gnu/linux however almost everywhere they just say linux and it's sad, even in the linux format magazine) worship steam and gabe newell because he ports windows games for linux. I personally dislike steam and valve, and maybe linux users worship gabe newell (CEO of valve, steam company) because he makes this OS popular, i think that using Open-Source OS like Gnu/Linux to play proprietary steam games is very bad and inappropriate.
My philosophy is to not play windows games at all because they're brainwashing. Instead of playing steam games and put more billions to Gabe pocket, you should instead learn how to code and make open-source games. I don't like the direction where most popular distros that people use are going, cuz i feel like if you want me to use systemd popular distro, i'd rather just use windows 10. Power of freedom is the power of choice, what choice do i have from systemd distros, i think there arent any choices. I have concerns towards comparing linux to windows 10 and to macos...

So i haven't used devuan for 2 weeks now, but always after trying new distributions i come back to this OS and i came back again... Also i don't like these new commands and new package systems on newest distros, some yaourt, aptitude or stuff like this.
I feel like i want learn stuff about init-based gnu/linux i think getting into systemd gnu/linux distros is simply waste of energy... :-)
By the way is devuan the only one easy to install with gui interface distro, based on init file system??

Another stuff i have discovered on internet is laptop made for GNU/Linux systems. There is some laptops made by puri.sm, using PureOS. uhh free software no blobs libreboot or coreboot instead of proprietary bios, cheapest one is uhh 1100 dollars??? Then there were laptops based on manjaro, cheapest one how much 999 dollars???
I have discovered something like ministry of freedom https://minifree.org/ I think these laptops are nice indeed and i'd use one if i had money to get one but im unemployed :-). 300 dollars is good price for laptop with only free software and hardware but 1100 dollars for pureos laptop or 999 for Manjaro laptop?? Why?? Is this the cost of freedom??
Thanks for reading

Last edited by cynicfm (2018-10-06 11:51:37)

dxrobertson · 2018-10-06 20:19:04

By the way is devuan the only one easy to install with gui interface distro, based on init file system??

I think when you say "init", you mean Devuans default init system -sysvinit, as opposed to systemd? There is also openrc, and Devuan offers that as an option to use instead of sysvinit.

I would never recommend anything other than Devuan unless one can not get Devuan to work for some reason. But other non-systemd distros I have used and were satisfied with are MX Linux, Artix (Arch based), and Salix (Slackware based). I am sure there are others.

golinux · 2018-10-06 20:52:10

@dxrobertson . . . Please read MX Linux' systemd policy:

MX Linux ships with systemd present but disabled by default. The MX Linux team strongly urges users to remain with this configuration which uses sysvinit instead.

I don't consider this approach systemd-free as all the "tentacles" needed to enable systemd are still present. It's no more systemd-free than a vanilla Debian with sysvinit. Yet the systemd-free label persists. Go figure.

cynicfm · 2018-10-06 21:23:59

Yeah init system.

I wanted to say that i tried so many distros but now after trying i can say plenty of them i realised that they were waste of time.
I don't like this approach when people say: Windows 10 is shit, use linux, linux the best. Or linux bad macos best.
I believe everybody uses different distros for different reasons, however my last systemd distro was manjaro, and... yeah it looks modern and stuff like this and... that's it. I run my laptop and i feel like: What;s going on there???
At least here on devuan i really like synaptic package manager where there are lots of nice stuff to me. I can say devuan feels truly open source to me. Systemd distros like manjaro feel to me like: Okay this is something i can't change. What's the point of using this...

I am inexperienced, but using devuan gives me possibilities to even modify this system for my needs. Learning how to use linux is great. However unfortunately because i read linux format magazine i can say that it does become 'old-fashioned' distribution that nobody uses anymore. People who write magazines or can speak in public say systemd is great. Somebody may think i don't know what's systemd. I feel the same.
The reason why im anti-systemd is this website that i mentioned in first post. Somebody clearly says don't use systemd. Even when i had systemd distros i felt like: Okay this is quite okay, but guys from the website not gonna like me.

So i really wanna get into gnu/linux and open source software, however i am not gonna use new popular distros. I have noticed on forums of manjaro for example people have attitude like: Oh manjaro is so great oh god i love it so much. And then if somebody's gonna tell him windows 10 is great, i use it, he's gonna be like: oh damn you, windows 10 is not great!! i dont wanna talk to you!!! i use linux im better!!!
When i have devuan installed on my laptop i feel like: Yeah u use windows 10 somebody else use manjaro, and i don't care. We all use what we want, because we have choices.
I don't get why people that use these modern distros convice other people to stop using windows 10. Why creators of systemd wanna take over, i feel like people who took over gnu/linux wanna also take over windows 10 and make lots of money. Is that the right attitude??

Another thing is manjaro had steam pre-installed... I don't really use steam and neither i see any reason to play these games. Nice graphics?? No thanks... I choose open-source games. Even though i play runescape, i played it for long time. I can play it on devuan and in the meantime learn how the OS works, how to modify stuff and i wanna learn writing scripts too. Scripts based on modern popular distros?? No thanks. Scripts based on -sysvinit. Yes please.

I don't know how to explain how i feel about modern linux distros. I feel like some of them are gnu/linux and some of them are just linux...... I am not a coder or experienced IT guy but i know that linux is name of kernel and proper name is Gnu/Linux. Why in the linux format magazine i have never seen GNU/Linux, only linux...

I am happy that i found something like devuan. On other websites they tell you about intel management engine, about blobs they put to your computer. Pay 1100 dollars for laptop with PureOS. Its not gonna have blobs
With devuan i feel oh okay i havent got anything on my pc. I use what i want and it is nice. I don't use windows 10, i don't use new linux i don't use macbook. I use completely something different that most people. Wanna spy on me?? Cmon do it, maybe its gonna convice you to use Devuan, haha.

So i said i came back again to this distro and im staying here... I cant explain how i felt when i used mint or manjaro, but i guess i just felt very weird... Even my laptop has different energy with devuan on compared to manjaro or mint... Manjaro the best linux distro according to linux format magazine?? Right!! Maybe for you!!

Again thanks for reading

Btw golinux i remember that u used to tell me off that i chat with people on #devuan and i should go chat on #devuan-fork instead, haha. I didnt have idea that you're administrator ;D.

edit: Again big kudos for devuan creators. I learned on this distro much more than i did on other distros. Its like i can just install it install wine play windows games and be happy. But in the same time if i feel like i can learn something new and use it for something more than just playing windows games, i can!! It's like the OS listens to me, not i listen to the OS!

Last edited by cynicfm (2018-10-06 21:28:56)

golinux · 2018-10-06 21:41:12

cynicfm wrote:

Btw golinux i remember that u used to tell me off that i chat with people on #devuan and i should go chat on #devuan-fork instead, haha. I didnt have idea that you're administrator ;D

Yup. And I carry a big stick! LOLOLOLOL! I often try to move chat unrelated to Devuan from #devuan to #debianfork. And I sometimes move topics here too. Think of it as housecleaning. Thanks for posting in the appropriate place on this forum.

cynicfm · 2018-10-06 21:51:01

golinux wrote:

cynicfm wrote:
Btw golinux i remember that u used to tell me off that i chat with people on #devuan and i should go chat on #devuan-fork instead, haha. I didnt have idea that you're administrator ;D
Yup. And I carry a big stick! LOLOLOLOL! I often try to move chat unrelated to Devuan from #devuan to #debianfork. And I sometimes move topics here too. Think of it as housecleaning. Thanks for posting in the appropriate place on this forum.

No problem . Thanks for being there too...

and sorry for long posts its hard for me to gather my thoughts in just few sentences.

HextorBRX · 2018-10-07 11:52:40

Hello cynicfm. I have just read your posts and something surprised me: how can you have 30 minutes of battery life with Antergos/Manjaro, while you have 3-4 hours with Devuan? I would say you have installed proprietary Nvidia drivers for your Optimus graphic card. This would explain why you had such a short battery life. I don't think it has anything to do with the OS, the DE - or systemd, for that matter.

If Devuan meets your requirements, you don't need to look elsewhere. The community is not as big as Debian's but you will always get quality answers here. There are other distributions without systemd of course: antiX, Gentoo based distros or you could just check out Devuan derivatives: https://devuan.org/os/partners/devuan-distros I don't know them all but I recommend one of those: Crowz, Miyo, Refracta, Star, Fluxuan.

Last edited by HextorBRX (2018-10-07 17:52:19)

Panopticon · 2018-10-07 13:20:50

Bit O/T but ive found on my machine that Devuan has the fastest transfer speeds via usb when c/p from hdd to usb or vice versa. Now ive tried arch, debian you name it. None have compared to the speed which Devuan is able to transfer. Just the other day on my Xfce machine i transfered 9 GB in as little over not less than 3 minutes and it was in sync too. I have old 2.0 ports with 3.0 usb sticks/drives. Whatever is going on with Devuan and usb transfer speeds, it works really well.

cynicfm · 2018-10-07 20:49:16

Thanks for posting here :-).

uhh i wanna play open-source games, write codes, scripts, learn how to modify open-source games, how to write them, how they're made, read lots of books... Windows games and proprietary software make these things impossible because they are against this. If i decide to play world of warcarft i spend 10 hours leveling my character while in the same time i could play open-source games and learn how to code ;/.

However i don't know where to begin. I used to like games very much but now the older i am i feel like it's not just games but my passion for open-source started to grow... I can say that open-source games and software needs lots of effort of people, and i really wish i could somewhat make open-source software world better than it is right now but i don't even know where to start.
I started with choosing Devuan OS, now i should finally stop playing windows games and get into free open-source games. But where to start, maybe i should complete some popular open-source gnu/linux games like strategies or battle for wesnoth or others... I don't know.
I played BfW with konrad and mage however i got stuck while killing queen in very last mission.
I also enjoyed playing baldurs gate however i didnt complete it and its not open-source at all...

I feel like proprietary windows online rpg games like world of warcraft, runescape and other just consume my brain ;/. I wish i could change that and stop playing windows online games at all and get into open-source online games. And if i don't like something in this game instead of begging developers for changing, i'd be able to change something for my needs.
Another thing is that i like Audacity and i am pretty sure it is somehow possible to modify this program for your own needs as well...

siva · 2018-10-09 17:28:26

Panopticon wrote:

Bit O/T but ive found on my machine that Devuan has the fastest transfer speeds via usb when c/p from hdd to usb or vice versa...Whatever is going on with Devuan and usb transfer speeds, it works really well.

Well that's strange. Could any of the devs speak to this?

Wild-Turtles · 2018-11-16 13:34:24

siva wrote:

Panopticon wrote:
Bit O/T but ive found on my machine that Devuan has the fastest transfer speeds via usb when c/p from hdd to usb or vice versa...Whatever is going on with Devuan and usb transfer speeds, it works really well.
Well that's strange. Could any of the devs speak to this?

We need more information for that and a post should be open for that in more appropriate place.
In can be interresting information :
- hardware information
- package list with version
- details of file/s copy (size, number type)

F_Sauce · 2018-11-17 23:17:18

Hello cynicfm!

I really agree with your general attitude; I don't think I understood all of your text, but, being frustrated myself I can easily relate to (which is what my interpreted views are of) you're opinion(s).

Having been using SuSE/OpenSuSE for 10 years+++, I was quite astonished when I became aware of what was going on with the 'systemd' agenda of the distro.

All the same, happy coding!!

Cheers,
Olav

Last edited by F_Sauce (2018-11-17 23:31:30)

zapper · 2018-11-18 02:09:08

I too was a gamer before using gnu/linux much like yourself Cynicfm. But I began to abandon it around windows 8.1.

For reasons of privacy/security. I wasn't knowing prior to that how bad windows was for security/privacy.

Personally though, as bad as systemd is, gnu/linux distros even debian is a wave of light compared to winblows 10 or winblows anything really... Windows is more like winbugs or winblows because of how much it sucks.

Not that you would like the distro I currently use, even though it doesn't use systemd and is free software, but Hyperbola is free software and doesn't use systemd at all.

Why wouldn't you like it you may wonder... Because it is a bit of a pain to install with encryption unless you are using libreboot devices with FDE. Also it is based off of archlinux and has a text mode install!

For me at first it was hard if not impossible, but since 0.2.2 or 0.2.3 releases and beyond, it has been easy. Because I now understand what I am doing. They added the guide to full disk encryption for libreboot about then.

You need a libreboot device though for this method of encryption, unless you are a really big expert on partitioning. xD

Devuan + jxself.org's linux-libre-lts is the next best option personally. But devuan does have that damn pocket s*** enabled in firefox just like debian.

I wish it was disabled by default. Who even uses that? ;p

Though to be honest, with Hyperbola they also ditch webext firefox which I also like, because webext is google garbage. Palemoon and Basilisk use XUL still, as does waterfox. But Basilisk has support for pre version 57 webext.

Noscript, Ublock origin, greasemonkey, privacy settings and random agent user spoof are my favorite addons for it. Most are being maintained currently of those five for forks, except the last two.

Anywho that's just a bit of info about me, as for minifree.org and their libreboot laptops, I highly recommend you buy them. They require no blobs, and the only thing that is questionable is the EC FIRMWARE separate from Libreboot which as long as you buy from them, won't be updated. but if you buy any of their devices, use transferwise to pay for the bill if you so desire to buy those laptops. Otherwise, it could be very expensive given how banks operate.

I personally have an x200. It is nice and durable to the point where I stepped on part of it once, and even dropped it once and it was fine. (NOT ON PURPOSE OF COURSE!) But yeah, you may have different results but long story short, you don't need any proprietary firmware or anything really questionable to run devuan or hyperbola or any free software distro on those computers.

Long rant I know, but yeah, just a few thoughts of mine. As for why I ditched Fedora, debian and trisquel which were my first distros after winbugs 8.1, Simply put to make it simple, I heard unsettling things about systemd and decided it was too questionable to trust. And the devs also were said to be very hostile, I decided that made it even more suspicious.

Anyways, enjoy devuan!

ps, linux-libre-lts is found here: https://jxself.org/linux-libre/

Oh, last thing if you get any computer whether from minifree.org or anywhere else, use Solid state drives, they the best for speed, battery saving and in general.

Last edited by zapper (2018-11-18 02:11:17)

cynicfm · 2018-11-23 19:23:57

i have seen minifree website before and id buy their laptop as soon as possible if i wasnt broke with money ;p
thanks for your post

i use gnu icecat browser version 56 (newest is 60) and its really good for my needs
is hyperbola arch based distro as i dont quite remember

cynicfm · 2020-02-02 13:00:13

So i have bought libreboot machine (T500) but i am stuck with systemd arch linux now...

For my needs which is playing some linux games, browsing web this is enough for me... No issues with anything...
Maybe systemd is another OS inside linux thanks to systemctl or journalctl stuff but i am not sysadmin... :-(

Head_on_a_Stick · 2020-02-02 13:21:23

cynicfm wrote:

i am stuck with systemd arch linux now

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenRC?

ToxicExMachina · 2020-02-03 05:45:58

cynicfm wrote:

So i have bought libreboot machine (T500) but i am stuck with systemd arch linux now...
For my needs which is playing some linux games, browsing web this is enough for me... No issues with anything...
Maybe systemd is another OS inside linux thanks to systemctl or journalctl stuff but i am not sysadmin... :-(

SystemD means tons of problems for everyone. Maybe you don't see them now but they're in your system. Due to SystemD when something goes wrong you can't even understand where is the problem, so you can't fix it easily. It's not just about system administration itself. It's about reliability and control. When you have no control on your system it's definitely not a user-friendly situation.

If you like Arch you can try Artix Linux.

HevyDevy · 2020-02-03 11:26:42

ToxicExMachina wrote:

cynicfm wrote:
So i have bought libreboot machine (T500) but i am stuck with systemd arch linux now...
For my needs which is playing some linux games, browsing web this is enough for me... No issues with anything...
Maybe systemd is another OS inside linux thanks to systemctl or journalctl stuff but i am not sysadmin... :-(
SystemD means tons of problems for everyone. Maybe you don't see them now but they're in your system. Due to SystemD when something goes wrong you can't even understand where is the problem, so you can't fix it easily. It's not just about system administration itself. It's about reliability and control. When you have no control on your system it's definitely not a user-friendly situation.
If you like Arch you can try Artix Linux.

The only way ive found to fix systemd is to sudo wipefs --all /dev/sda and install devuan

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2018-10-06 11:49:28

I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#2 2018-10-06 20:19:04

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#3 2018-10-06 20:52:10

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#4 2018-10-06 21:23:59

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#5 2018-10-06 21:41:12

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#6 2018-10-06 21:51:01

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#7 2018-10-07 11:52:40

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#8 2018-10-07 13:20:50

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#9 2018-10-07 20:49:16

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#10 2018-10-09 17:28:26

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#11 2018-11-16 13:34:24

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#12 2018-11-17 23:17:18

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#13 2018-11-18 02:09:08

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#14 2018-11-23 19:23:57

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#15 2020-02-02 13:00:13

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#16 2020-02-02 13:21:23

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#17 2020-02-03 05:45:58

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

#18 2020-02-03 11:26:42

Re: I am new to Linux however i dislike systemd

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