@fsmithred  I did what's below to see if the openbox desktop worked for me as it does for you.

[REMOVE, NOT USED] menu:amd64 2.1.51
[INSTALL, DEPENDENCIES] libobrender32v5:amd64 3.6.1-12+b4
[INSTALL, DEPENDENCIES] libobt2v5:amd64 3.6.1-12+b4
[INSTALL, DEPENDENCIES] libstartup-notification0:amd64 0.12-8+b1
[INSTALL, DEPENDENCIES] linux-base-6.18.5+deb14-amd64:amd64 6.18.5-1
[INSTALL] linux-image-6.18.5+deb14-amd64:amd64 6.18.5-1
[INSTALL] obconf:amd64 1:2.0.4+git20150213-3+b1
[INSTALL] openbox:amd64 3.6.1-12+b4
[REMOVE (PURGE)] fluxbox:amd64 1.3.7-1+b1
[UPGRADE] elogind:amd64 255.17-2 -> 255.17-4
[UPGRADE] libelogind0:amd64 255.17-2 -> 255.17-4
[UPGRADE] libpam-elogind:amd64 255.17-2 -> 255.17-4

Although it slows the OS considerably, I installed and rebooted to the latest kernel and edited .xinitrc for openbox. Neither xinit nor startx started the openbox desktop.

I downgraded the elogind pkgs to 255.17-2 and openbox started the desktop with xinit and startx.

Curious that with the 255.17-4 elogind pkgs installed, seatd allows a window mgr desktop to start from the console, but not elogind.

Appreciate what you posted, fsmithred. Neither xinit nor startx worked with the upgrade. I didn't list libelogind-compat because it was already installed and upgraded to 255.17-4. When I downgraded the three pkgs above there was no dependency issue, so libelogind-compat remains upgraded and the desktop works.

Been a long time since using openbox. If after month or so and an update doesn't resolve anything with fluxbox, openbox may well be a good replacement.

Seatd is not installed but libseat1 is a dependency of xserver-xorg-core. Tried seatd last year thinking it would use less memory. For whatever reason, it used more memory. Other than trying seatd for a a few days, been using elogind + dependencies + the two recommends (libpam-elogind and polkitd) for a long while in Ceres without issues.

I upgraded the three pkgs and tried users, staff and operator as owner/group, but all were changed back to root when starting the desktop. One of those three 255.17-4 pkgs will not allow any owner/group for /tmp/.X11-unix other than root, and immediately changes it to root when another owner/group is used. 

Not ideal but is there a way to prevent or override the change to root as owner/group for /tmp/.X11-unix?

Unlikely makes a difference but when using the linux-libre kernels and headers last year I downloaded the deb pkgs and installed them locally.

Did starting a browser from the terminal show anything useful?

As an earlier kernel version and another audio driver didn't resolve it, don't know what else to suggest.

Local sound works but not the browsers... odd. Is there something invoked when starting a browser (firejail, etc) that you can test sound without using?

My mobo card/driver:

$ lspci -v | grep Audio
00:03.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v3/4th Gen Core Processor HD Audio Controller (rev 06) (prog-if 00 [HDA compatible])
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 9 Series Chipset Family HD Audio Controller (prog-if 00 [HDA compatible])

$ lspci -k -s 00:1b.0
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 9 Series Chipset Family HD Audio Controller
        Subsystem: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd Device a182
        Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
        Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel

Your info shows the snd_hda_intel module loaded but not used as the driver. Have you tried changing the audio driver?

Last year I used an old linux-libre kernel for this old mobo and sound wasn't an issue, local or browser. Running an LTS kernel (from the repo?) might fix the sound.

Appreciate the tip.* Like the Terminator series which later followed a similar concept, corporate devs who are in it for the science and rarely consider (or understand) real world consequences are blamed. I tend to look at who mandates the devs'/scientists' efforts and arrogantly/foolishly perceive those efforts as a means to more power and control. Something like the 1967 Bond movies spoof, The President's Analyst.

* Watch/download Colossus: The Forbin Project at archive-org.

2. lxqt-session:amd64 Depends lxqt-qtplugin (>= 2.3.0~)
but none of the choices are installable:
[no choices]

Lxqt-qtplugin is the problem. Version 2.3.0 is not available now but will be available soon. This occasionally happens in Ceres.

LXQt system integration plugin for Qt
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/lxqt-qtplugin

Good thought, but no.
Note: libguvcview-2.2 is a library for guvcview, an app to test/set webcam functions and create local videos.

# aptitude purge mpv
<snip>
The following packages will be REMOVED:  
  libdisplay-info3{u} liblua5.2-0{u} libmujs3{u} libpipewire-0.3-0t64{u} 
  libsixel1{u} libspa-0.2-modules{u} libva-wayland2{u} 
  libwebrtc-audio-processing-1-3{u} libxpresent1{u} mpv{p} 
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 10 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 11.8 MB will be freed.

However:

# aptitude purge libpulse0
The following packages will be REMOVED:  
  libasyncns0{u} libpulse0{p} 
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 1,044 kB will be freed.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 mpv : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.4) but it is not going to be installed
 libsphinxbase3t64 : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to be installed
 libavdevice61 : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to be installed
 libguvcview-2.2 : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 0.99.1) but it is not going to be installed
 libsdl2-classic : Depends: libpulse0 (>= 5.0) but it is not going to be installed
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

      Remove the following packages:                             
1)      ffmpeg [7:7.1.2-1+b1 (now, unstable)]                    
2)      guvcview [2.2.1-1 (now, unstable)]                       
3)      libavdevice-dev [7:7.1.2-1+b1 (now, unstable)]           
4)      libavdevice61 [7:7.1.2-1+b1 (now, unstable)]             
5)      libavfilter-dev [7:7.1.2-1+b1 (now, unstable)]           
6)      libavfilter10 [7:7.1.2-1+b1 (now, unstable)]             
7)      libguvcview-2.2 [2.2.1-1 (now, unstable)]                
8)      libpocketsphinx3 [0.8+5prealpha+1-15+b4 (now, unstable)] 
9)      libsdl2-2.0-0 [2.32.10+dfsg-4 (now, unstable)]           
10)     libsdl2-classic [2.32.10+dfsg-4 (now, unstable)]         
11)     libsdl2-image-2.0-0 [2.8.8+dfsg-1 (now, unstable)]       
12)     libsphinxbase3t64 [0.8+5prealpha+1-21+b1 (now, unstable)]
13)     mpv [0.40.0-5+b1 (now, unstable)]                        
14)     pipewalker [1.1-1 (now, unstable)]                       

Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]y 

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  ffmpeg{a} guvcview{a} jackd2{u} libass9{u} libasyncns0{u} libavc1394-0{u} 
  libavdevice-dev{a} libavdevice61{a} libavfilter-dev{a} libavfilter10{a} 
  libavformat-dev{u} libbs2b0{u} libcaca0{u} libcdio-cdda2t64{u} 
  libcdio-paranoia2t64{u} libdc1394-25{u} libdisplay-info3{u} libdovi3{u} 
  libfftw3-double3{u} libflite1{u} libgsl28{u} libgslcblas0{u} 
  libguvcview-2.2{a} libiec61883-0{u} libjack-jackd2-0{u} liblilv-0-0{u} 
  liblua5.2-0{u} libmujs3{u} libmysofa1{u} libopenal-data{u} libopenal1{u} 
  libpipewire-0.3-0t64{u} libplacebo351{u} libpocketsphinx3{a} 
  libportaudio2{u} libpostproc-dev{u} libpostproc58{u} >> libpulse0{p} << 
  libraw1394-11{u} librubberband2{u} libsdl2-2.0-0{a} libsdl2-classic{a} 
  libsdl2-image-2.0-0{a} libserd-0-0{u} libshaderc1{u} libsixel1{u} 
  libsndio7.0{u} libsord-0-0{u} libspa-0.2-modules{u} libsphinxbase3t64{a} 
  libsratom-0-0{u} libswscale-dev{u} libswscale8{u} libunibreak6{u} 
  libv4l-0t64{u} libv4lconvert0t64{u} libva-wayland2{u} libvidstab1.1{u} 
  libwebrtc-audio-processing-1-3{u} libxpresent1{u} libzimg2{u} 
  libzix-0-0{u} mpv{a} pipewalker{a} python3-dbus{u} 
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 65 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 110 MB will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]n

I can remove it but finding daily use replacements for mpv, ffmpeg and guvcview without needing libpulse0 may prove tedious and not worth the effort.

Perhaps there are a few. Thought of vlc but libpulse0 is a dependency. Any suggestions?

Pulseaudio never installed.

apt list | grep installed | grep pulse*
apulse/unstable,now 0.1.14-1 amd64 [installed]
libpulse0/unstable,now 17.0+dfsg1-2+b1 amd64 [installed]

All lines commented in libpulse0's /etc/pulse/client.conf.

No pulse dir/file in ~/.config or /tmp

aptitude why libpulse0
i  mpv Depends libpulse0 (>= 0.99.4)

Conky-std installed, no libpulse0 dep.

https://daniel-lange.com/archives/192-M … rixie.html

@stargate-scm  Thanks for the link. Wanted to disable that warning but like the last poster reported, it didn't work with apt-3.x. In a terminal, the apt warning can be disabled (without modernizing) after editing the format in the new apt.conf.d file

from
APT::Get::Update::SourceListWarnings "false";

to
APT::Get::Update::SourceListWarnings "0";

To edit the grub font and size so both laptops are same/similar:

1. Pick a font for your grub menu. DejaVu Sans Mono is in this example.

2. Convert the font to grub2's format using the grub-mkfont command, and set the font size:

# grub-mkfont --output=/boot/grub/DejaVuSansMono.pf2 \
--size=24 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/dejavu/DejaVuSansMono.ttf

3. In /etc/default/grub, add this GRUB_FONT line with the path to your freshly-converted font:

GRUB_FONT=/boot/grub/DejaVuSansMono.pf2

4. Enter # update-grub

This edit changes the font size in grub and the console to ~14. Adjust the '--size=' in the grub-mkfont cmd as needed. If the font is still pre-edit size after updating grub and you don't want to reboot, enter # setupcon -f in any console. This edit does not use the GRUB_GFXMODE line for resolution (commented).

Thanks, greenjeans. What you quoted was possible alternatives for others who want to use a mouse. Gave lxterminal a spin anyway and it reminded me of why I use the Up/Dn arrows and PgUp/PgDn to scroll. Using the mouse means having to move my right hand back and forth between the mouse and the keyboard (aptitude, man pages, etc). I find it easier to just keep both hands on the keyboard.

About lxterminal: on this OS, the mouse defaults to skipping two lines instead of scrolling one line at a time. Wasn't useful in aptitude. Didn't see a scroll setting in the GUI prefs and didn't look further, just deleted it. Appreciate the thought.