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#101 Re: Off-topic » Life after Firefox » 2018-02-12 02:55:38

msi
GNUser wrote:

- Chromium*

* Being made by Google, I'd only use Chromium as an absolute last resort. Remember, your browsing data is Google's main "product".

The iridium browser project is trying to eliminate this drawback from using Chromium. They also provide binary packages for a few major Linux distributions, including Debian. These should also work on Devuan.

#102 Re: Off-topic » [Solved] Bash: Behavior of `test -x` » 2018-01-04 21:19:06

msi
ralph.ronnquist wrote:

The explanation is in how the bash expands commands, and how "-x" works.

Without quotes, a phrase like

[ -x $(type -p gedit)]

gets "expanded" into the following phrase when "gedit' is missing (aka "type" returns nothing):

[-x  ]

i.e., "-x" without argument, and that succeeds. Whereas with quotes around it, the expansion is

[ -x "" ]

i.e. "-x" with an empty string as argument, and that fails.

I see. Thanks for explaining that.

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Perhaps your statement should have been like

if type -p $program > /dev/null ; then echo UGH ; else echo NÖF; fi

That would be using the return code of "type" as condition, with 0 meaning success and non-0 meaning fail.

The problem with this is that, according to man bash, type -p only...

returns the name of the disk file that would be executed if name were specified as a command name, or nothing if ``type -t name'' would not return file.

In other words, it just checks if $program is in your $PATH, not if it is executable.

So, the right way to perform that check would be to use text -x, but with proper quoting:

if [ -x "$(type -p "$program")" ]
then
  [commands]
else
  [commands]
fi

#103 Re: Off-topic » [Solved] Bash: Behavior of `test -x` » 2018-01-02 19:16:31

msi
fsmithred wrote:

I'l take a guess and say that -x is testing the executability of the command substitution. When you quote it, you're telling the shell to expand what's inside the quotes, so -x tests the result of that.

That sounds like a reasonable explanation, though I'm not sure it's accurate. But a look at exit codes also points into that direction:

$ test -x /usr/bin/whoami
$ echo $?
0
$ test -x /usr/bin/whoarethey
$ echo $?
1
$ test -x $(type -p whoami)
$ echo $?
0
$ test -x $(type -p whoarethey)
$ echo $?
0
$ test -x "$(type -p whoami)"
$ echo $?
0
$ test -x "$(type -p whoarethey)"
$ echo $?
1

#104 Off-topic » [Solved] Bash: Behavior of `test -x` » 2018-01-02 12:43:58

msi
Replies: 4

Trying to implement a check for the availability of a given text editor inside a bash script, I discovered that test -x needs its argument to be put in quotes if the argument is a command substitution. Maybe someone can exlplain to me why.

Here's an example of what happens if you don't put the quotes:

$ type -p nano  # nano is installed
/usr/bin/nano
$ type -p gedit  # gedit is not installed
$
$if [ -x $(type -p nano) ]; then echo "found executable"; else echo "command not found/not an executable"; fi
found executable
$ if [ -x $(type -p gedit) ]; then echo "found executable"; else echo "command not found/not an executable"; fi
found executable  # This is strange.
$
$ if [ -x "$(type -p nano)" ]; then echo "found executable"; else echo "command not found/not an executable"; fi
found executable
$ if [ -x "$(type -p gedit)" ]; then echo "found executable"; else echo "command not found/not an executable"; fi
command not found/not an executable

#105 Re: Devuan Derivatives » Advice needed from non-US users regarding keyboard layouts » 2017-08-02 21:55:12

msi
MiyoLinux wrote:

I know it would be really convenient for live users to be able to use their native keyboard layout if possible, but at the same time, I would like to know if it's a "deal-breaker" if they can only use the US layout.

I'd definitely consider it a deal breaker for people used to German keyboard layouts. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Germany.svg

#106 Re: Off-topic » Is Blackbox still today a recommended or outdated WM ? » 2017-07-13 13:39:07

msi
fungus wrote:

PS  In my non-systemd escapade I tried a FreeBsd TrueOS installation last night.  I finally gave up waiting and went to sleep.  This is like taking a leap to 2 decades back.  Absolute crap and waste of time.

Instead of merely insulting FreeBSD/TrueOS, could you (in a new thread) provide reasons for why you think using these systems is "like taking a leap to 2 decades back" and a waste of time? I would be very much interested, since I've recently tried FreeBSD (but not TrueOS) and taken some notes about my experience.

#107 Other Issues » APT: "gpgv: Can't check signature: public key not found" » 2017-07-10 19:02:13

msi
Replies: 0

When I just ran

# apt-get source linux-image-3.16.0-4-686-pae

I got the following error message:

gpgv: keyblock resource `/root/.gnupg/trustedkeys.gpg': file open error
gpgv: Signature made Mon Jun 26 18:46:15 2017 CEST using RSA key ID 95861109
gpgv: Can't check signature: public key not found
dpkg-source: warning: failed to verify signature on ./linux_3.16.43-2+deb8u2.dsc

This may or may not be related to a note apt displayed earlier:

Picking 'linux' as source package instead of 'linux-image-3.16.0-4-686-pae'
NOTICE: 'linux' packaging is maintained in the 'Git' version control system at:
https://anonscm.debian.org/git/kernel/linux.git

I even downloaded that missing public key with

# gpg --recv-keys 95861109

and still got the same error.

#108 Devuan » Jessie installation disc labeled "Debian" » 2017-07-04 21:49:50

msi
Replies: 0

I've just downloaded devuan_jessie_1.0.0_i386_NETINST.iso from files.devuan.org and burned it to a DVD. When I open my file manager, I see the disc as being labeled "Debian 1.0-final i386 1". In addition to replacing "Debian" with "Devuan", I suggest to label it "Devuan 1.0.0 i386", since that's what it is.

Maybe someone can also check all the other images for correct labels.

#109 Re: Off-topic » Life after Firefox » 2017-07-02 22:35:01

msi

You could give Dooble a try. I successfully built it on Devuan (Jessie) last week (see https://sourceforge.net/p/dooble/discus … /33feae29/ ) but didn't have time to really check it out yet. From what I've read, it's usable but still needs some work. To build it, you'll need to install a few dependencies. For me, they were:

  • qt4-qmake

  • libqt4-dev (which pulled in a whole bunch of other (qt-)stuff)

  • libgcrypt20-dev

  • libsqlite3-dev

Then run the following commands inside the source tree:

$ qmake -o Makefile dooble.pro  # use dooble.qt5.pro to build the Qt 5 version
$ make

As you can read in the discussion linked above, installation targets for Linux-based systems have been removed. But you can simply run Dooble from within the build directory after make has finished. Before that, however, you'll have to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the "libSpotnOn" folder. I've written myself a two-line shell script that always does that before starting the browser.

#110 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » X without a Display Manager » 2017-06-27 12:28:09

msi
PeteGozz wrote:

an optionally dbus free window manager

As far as I can see, all window managers are "dbus-free". dbus is, for example, required by file managers for mounting external devices. See: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1028

That's why you would probably want to have

exec dbus-launch --exit-with-session openbox-session

instead of just

exec openbox-session

inside your ~/.xinitrc file. At least when using Thunar or PCManFM.

#111 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Trinity on Jessie » 2017-06-25 19:12:30

msi
garyz.dev1 wrote:

I put TDE (Trinity DE) on top of my DevJessie.

Have you considered giving Exe GNU/Linux a try? It offers "Devuan-based Live Linux Images with Trinity Desktop Environment (TDE)"[1] and "a fixed disk installation can be done from the 'live' session"[2].

[1] https://sourceforge.net/projects/exegnulinux/
[2] http://exegnulinux.net

#112 Re: Documentation » Draft: "Devuan fact sheet" » 2017-06-22 01:12:35

msi

If that is an official Devuan installation image, then why isn't it to be found in the Devuan release archive?

#113 Re: Documentation » Draft: "Devuan fact sheet" » 2017-06-18 01:02:11

msi

The final product has been called "Quick overview" and is online at https://devuan.org/os/#quick-overview.

#114 Documentation » Howto: Sylpheed 3.5.1 in Devuan Jessie » 2017-06-17 18:46:30

msi
Replies: 0

The version of the Sylpheed mail client in Devuan Jessie is 3.5.0~beta1. The current upstream stable release (3.5.1) is in the ASCII repositories. However, backporting Sylpheed from the source package in ASCII is tricky due to a change with the gpgme packages (libgpgme11 in Jessie vs. libgpgme in ASCII). So, here's how to build it from source.

1. Download and verify

Get the source tar ball and the corresponding PGP signature from http://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/en/download.html and verify your download by checking the signature. I have a directory called src/ inside my home directory where I put source files of software I want to build, so Sylpheed's sources will go there as well.

msi@devuan:~$ cd src/
msi@devuan:~/src$ wget http://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/sylpheed/v3.5/sylpheed-3.5.1.tar.gz http://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/sylpheed/v3.5/sylpheed-3.5.1.tar.gz.asc

As you probably won't have the public key corresponding to the signature available, you will get the usual error trying to verify it:

msi@devuan:~/src$ gpg --verify sylpheed-3.5.1.tar.gz.asc 
gpg: assuming signed data in `sylpheed-3.5.1.tar.gz'
gpg: Signature made Fri Jul 29 09:41:09 2016 CEST using DSA key ID C00C2E26
gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found

Get the key, using:

msi@devuan:~/src$ gpg --recv-keys C00C2E26
gpg: requesting key C00C2E26 from hkp server keys.gnupg.net
gpg: key C00C2E26: public key "Hiroyuki Yamamoto <hiro-y@kcn.ne.jp>" imported
gpg: 3 marginal(s) needed, 1 complete(s) needed, PGP trust model
gpg: depth: 0  valid:   6  signed:   0  trust: 0-, 0q, 0n, 0m, 0f, 6u
gpg: next trustdb check due at 2019-06-08
gpg: Total number processed: 1
gpg:               imported: 1

Then verify the signature:

msi@devuan:~/src$ gpg --verify sylpheed-3.5.1.tar.gz.asc

Successful verification will look like this:

gpg: assuming signed data in `sylpheed-3.5.1.tar.gz'
gpg: Signature made Fri Jul 29 09:41:09 2016 CEST using DSA key ID C00C2E26
gpg: Good signature from "Hiroyuki Yamamoto <hiro-y@kcn.ne.jp>"
gpg:                 aka "Hiroyuki Yamamoto <yamamoto@sraoss.co.jp>"
gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
gpg:          There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
Primary key fingerprint: 8CF3 A5AC 417A DE72 B0AA  4A83 5024 337C C00C 2E26

2. Install build dependencies

Install packages required to build Sylpheed, running:

root@devuan:/home/msi/src# apt-get build-dep sylpheed

3. Build Sylpheed

Extract the tar archive and change into the newly created directory:

msi@devuan:~/src$ tar xfz sylpheed-3.5.1.tar.gz
msi@devuan:~/src$ cd sylpheed-3.5.1/

Building Sylpheed now is as simple as following the instructions given in the INSTALL file:

msi@devuan:~/src/sylpheed-3.5.1$ ./configure
msi@devuan:~/src/sylpheed-3.5.1$ make

(If you have more than one CPU you might want to use the ''-j'' option to speed things up (see "man make").)

msi@devuan:~/src/sylpheed-3.5.1$ su
Password:
root@devuan:/home/msi/src/sylpheed-3.5.1# make install

4. Install libsylph1

If you run Sylpheed from the command line after the installation, there will the following error message:

sylpheed: error while loading shared libraries: libsylpheed-plugin-0.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

This is due a missing package and thus easily cured. Just install libsylph1 and you're set:

msi@devuan:~/src/sylpheed-3.5.1$ su
Password: 
root@devuan:/home/msi/src# apt-get install libsylph1

(Btw, it's important to install this package after you've installed Sylpheed, for some reason.)

Run the program:

msi@devuan:~$ sylpheed

Source build and Devuan package

For me, building Sylpheed from source is an interim soultion until Devuan ASCII becomes stable. At that point I will upgrade my system and switch over to the distribution package.

To simulate the transition from the source build to a distribtuion package, I first uninstalled Sylpheed by running "make uninstall" in the source directory:

root@devuan:/home/msi/src/sylpheed-3.5.1# make uninstall

Then I installed the package version from the Jessie repositories and tried to use that. This worked flawlessly. As Sylpheed holds all personal data and configuration in a directory called .sylpheed-2.0 (that name should probably be changed upstream) inside your home directory, nothing will get lost, when you uninstall the program itself.

As I wasn't going to use the version from the repositories, I purged that package and then reinstalled the newer version built from source:

root@devuan:/home/msi/src/sylpheed-3.5.1# apt-get purge sylpheed
root@devuan:/home/msi/src/sylpheed-3.5.1# make install

This went well, but when I wanted to run Sylpheed I got the above error again, despite libsylph1 being installed. So I purged and reinstalled that package:

root@devuan:/home/msi/src/sylpheed-3.5.1# apt-get purge libsylph1
root@devuan:/home/msi/src/sylpheed-3.5.1# apt-get install libsylph1

Problem solved.

So, I suppose that if you uninstall Sylpheed before upgrading to ASCII and then install the distribution package after the upgrade, that won't cause any problems.

#115 Re: Off-topic » Xfwm4 (and Openbox) Window Themes » 2017-06-13 23:04:55

msi
Somewhat Reticent wrote:

Wouldn't it be great if synaptic respected openbox themes?

Well, it does, as long as you're using Openbox. (You're probably referring to the accompanying GTK themes.)

smoki wrote:

Sounds like if someone write say panel, synaptic in fox and web browser (at least in suckless way)... and couple other tiny apps, that would be pretty much usable gtk/qt free version of Desktop Linux

Speaking of desktop environments built with alternative GUI toolkits, there's also EDE, which uses FLTK. I've found some quite informative slides that were used for a presentation of EDE (and FLTK) at FOSDEM 2013, too: http://equinox-project.org/slides/fosdem-2013-ede.pdf.

I can't really say much about Fox. The only Fox application I've been giving a try so far was Xfe, which is a nice project. However, I like PCManFM's GTK+ 2 interface much better. I'm using the GTK+ 2 default theme (Raleigh) and I think nothing really beats that in terms of clarity and, of course, "ugliness" – though Clearlooks is pretty clear as well.

There's a funny article about Adwaita (Raleigh's GTK+ 3 replacement) from 2014 on blogs.gnome.org that says:

The Raleigh theme that we’ve used as the default until now has some advantages:

    It is very simple
    No dependency on a theme engine (external or internal)
    It does not use a lot of resources

But there is no nice way of putting it: it is very ugly.

And it goes on:

This may not  be such a big deal on Linux, where distributions generally have ‘their’ theme, not to mention the many packaged and readily available themes.  So, basically no Linux user ever sees the default GTK+ theme.

Well, I do see the default GTK+ theme and on my desktop it definitely doesn't look as ugly as in the screenshot in that article.

So, if anyone would fork GTK+ 2, I would be very happy to see that happen, since as it seems, literally every program GUI on my system is based on it.

Maybe there's also a way to recreate the classic GTK+ 2 themes in FLTK, so these two would integrate seemlessly. So much for the utopian idea of the day.

#116 Re: Other Issues » newbie question, as I am » 2017-06-11 20:53:54

msi

I actually didn't want to go into this (for perceived lack of sufficient qualification), but as it has been bugging me all day, let me say a few words about why I expressed the assumption that reading the manual may not be the best way of "getting under the hood".

Simply put, my experience with learning parts of how GNU/Linux or a specific distribution work and how to do things on these systems sort of contradicts the idea of sitting down, reading the book, going through some practical examples and then being a more competent user. That rather reminds me of dull introductory courses at university where I've never really learned anything. I'm really far from being a GNU/Linux expert, but the knowledge I've acquired so far mainly came from trying to solve actual problems I encountered. These included tweaking my desktop environment, wanting to find a better backup solution, trying to get hardware to work that wouldn't out of the box, finding ways of stripping down the system so it would be easy on resources, wanting to auto-generate a bunch of HTML pages, wanting to share files locally and over the network etc.

So, in reference to the Debian Administrator's Handbook, I'd say you best be your own case study. You could just start by asking yourself: Where are the rough edges of my setup? Which problems do I regularly run into using this system? Is there anything that I find kind of hard to do that may be done in a better way?

This apporach really has its advantages: Your "getting under the hood" will start from your personal perspective and use case. This not only avoids the delicate question „Why am I reading this?“, it also helps you limit your endeavors, letting your knowledge and skills evolve gradually instead of going full in, getting unnecessarily confused, not really knowing what to do with all the information later on and surely forgetting most of it in no time.

However, this doesn't mean you shouldn't be dealing with the concepts and inner workings of GNU/Linux or Devuan or computers and software in general. If you really try to solve a problem and understand the what and why of it's solution, you may actually have to read a lot of background documentation (like, e. g., parts of the Wheezy book), but it will still relate to what you want to achieve.

Also, when I read documentation in order to solve a problem and finally find a proper way to do it, I'll write it up and add it to my personal collection of documents on how to do this and that on GNU/Linux. This really helps a lot.

#117 Re: Other Issues » newbie question, as I am » 2017-06-11 12:29:19

msi
greenjeans wrote:

So for a change, a newbie is actually offering to RTFM all on his own, and you're trying to discourage him?

Now that you say it, I realize the oddity. Well, no discouragement intended.

#118 Re: Other Issues » newbie question, as I am » 2017-06-10 17:53:23

msi
golinux wrote:

I'd stick with the Wheezy handbook and read/compare selectively in the Jessie Handbook.

Unfortunately, the "browse online" link in that article points to the book for Debian Jessie. The Wheezy version can be found at https://debian-handbook.info/browse/wheezy/.

Btw, I'm not quite sure if reading these books is the best way to learn your way around Devuan and GNU/Linux in general. But it won't do any harm either, I guess.

#119 Re: Off-topic » Is Blackbox still today a recommended or outdated WM ? » 2017-06-05 19:40:24

msi
spartrekus wrote:

Memory usage is my first consideration in the choice.

Ok, then maybe you'll find some interest in JWM: http://joewing.net/projects/jwm

#120 Re: Off-topic » Is Blackbox still today a recommended or outdated WM ? » 2017-06-05 17:31:25

msi

If this is really just about finding a lightweight and stable window manager to use, I suggest that you take a good look at Openbox (or Fluxbox) before investing time in fixing bugs in a piece of software that apparently hasn't really been maintained for over a decade. Openbox etc. also are surely used much more widely than Blackbox these days, which means that they get a lot more testing and feedback.

If you should find Openbox useful, there's also some packaging work for Devuan to be done: Back in Debian Wheezy there used to be a package openbox-themes in the repositories which was later dropped. I've recently installed that package on Devuan Jessie and it worked just fine. So, I think it should be easy to re-package that for Devuan, including some additional themes.

If you're still interested in hacking Blackbox, you might want to have a look at https://github.com/bbidulock/blackboxwm.

#121 Re: Documentation » Devuan migration how to » 2017-06-03 21:00:12

msi
chillfan wrote:

This guide will take you through what is required to upgrade to Devuan. Many of you may be familiar with this already, the only changes here are formatting changes to make it more suitable for posting here.

So, where can the original document be found? I'm asking this, so I can link to it on the Howto page of the Devuan documentation outline I've put together at http://wiki.friendsofdevuan.org/doku.ph … n_doc:root.

chillfan wrote:

At time of writing Devuan Jessie has not yet been announced stable, nonetheless it is in a very usable state and it is possible to upgrade now as if it was simply the next release of Debian.

This should be updated (as well as the list of supported architectures?).

chillfan wrote:

First you will need to gain root access at a terminal. Enter your user password when asked.

user@debian:~$ sudo -s

This implies sudo being installed which will not necessarily be the case (I don't have it.). I assume, sudo -s is equivalent to su anyway, so it's probably better to use that.

++ UPDATE ++

golinux pointed me to the source on gitlab. I've now copied that into the wiki and begun to make adjustments: http://wiki.friendsofdevuan.org/doku.ph … rom_debian

#122 Documentation » Devuan Documentation (structural draft) » 2017-06-02 20:14:21

msi
Replies: 10

In an effort to create an overall structure for Devuan's official documentation, I've put up a page at the friendsofdevuan wiki, containing a structural draft.

Comments, suggestions, criticism welcome.

#123 Re: Documentation » Draft: "Devuan fact sheet" » 2017-05-28 00:22:34

msi

Thanks for having a look.

I doubt that there is something like an official position on the spelling of release code names in Devuan. For example, see https://devuan.org/os/releases. So, spelling it "Jessie" should be just fine. The official release announcement says "Jessie" as well.

#124 Re: Documentation » Draft: "Devuan fact sheet" » 2017-05-27 22:06:52

msi
fanderal wrote:

I'd like to suggest adding a based-on comment.

I generally see your point. However, we decided not to include that info because if there is one piece of information on Devuan that you really don't have to hunt for, it is Devuan being a fork of Debian. It's right there on the front page at devuan.org: "Devuan GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd."

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