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I looked up the xfce4 metapackage because that was the way Danielsan cited it, but certainly, your minimal install would be a lot leaner, about 90% by the looks of it. I was actually considering xfce recently until I saw the elogind dependency. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about the issue, but there's a thread about it here if anyone's interested:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5909
I haven't checked to see exactly which of those core packages is dependent on elogind, so it may be possible to use significant parts of xfce without elogind.
Twm is a very old wm and this unmaintained.
Why do you say that? The gitlab shows commits as recent as two weeks ago.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/twm
Not sure whats wrong with XFCE4
I wouldn't say there's anything's wrong with it, but it's in an entirely different class from the other WMs being discussed here. It's not so much a window manager as a full-blown desktop environment. I checked in aptitiude, and installing XFCE4 on my system would require downloading 500 MB of new files. It depends on PulseAudio and a whole bunch of other things I don't have installed. By contrast, cwm is less than 200 KB, and twm, if you include the menu package, is less than 2 MB. They don't depend on anything that's not already installed on my (very basic) system.
I'm not saying that makes them better, it's just a different way of doing things. It certainly makes them more suitable for running on older hardware with marginal specs. I have Devuan running on one machine that's 15 years old, with a 1.4 GHz processor, and it's perfectly usable. I'm pretty sure it would chug with XFCE, and Gnome or KDE would almost certainly be unusable.
Don't you need to tell the package manager not to upgrade the package as well? I recently had to install an older version of a package, and I also told aptitude to put a hold on it. In my case, it was because newer versions of the wacom driver had pulled support for serial tablets, which broke a ton of older tablet PCs.
(I figure it's a good idea whenever such things are discussed to post a link to Don'tBreakDebian as a warning to those unfamiliar with the risks of such practices.)
Also, sound in Firefox only works with pulseaudio (the workaround is to use apulse).
We were just discussing this issue in another thread, as I recently discovered the version of Firefox in the repositories does not require PA. According to other posters, it never has, so I must have been remembering some other distribution.
FWIW I also noticed my PA settings were being reset on every reboot with Devuan, but I only had it installed briefly, and never tried to fix the issue.
I currently have cwm installed on all my Devuan machines. It takes a bit of time to get used to the complete lack of window decorations, but once you learn the keyboard shortcuts, it's really not an issue. Configuration is extremely easy via the .cwmrc file.
If you decide to try cwm, you'll probably want to replicate some of the functionality offered by DEs and more advanced WMs. I currently have some hotkeys bound to scripts that adjust my volume and screen brightness using amixer and brightnessctl. They call xosd to briefly display the current settings.
Is there an advantage to installing uBO through the repository? I wasn't aware of this option, so I had just installed it through the regular add-on mechanism. None of my other extensions (such as Greasemonkey, Dark Reader, or Gesturefy) appear to be available in the repositories, so I'm wondering why uBO was singled out for this treatment.
However man 2.12.0 does clear the screen after looking up a command - if I hit the h key for help it shows a page headed SUMMARY OF LESS COMMANDS suggesting that less is being used (version 590-2 of less is installed) - it turns out that the man-db package which includes /usr/bin/man suggests less. Removing less from installed packages stops the man command from clearing the screen when quitting.
This behavior is due to the Debian alternatives system. When both `less` and `more` are available, man will default to using less as its pager, because it has a higher priority. If you remove less, the system will fall back to more. You can see information about pagers installed on your system with `update-alternatives --display pager`.
Set the environment variable LESS=X to force 'less' to stop clearing the screen upon exit.
Unfortunately the LESS environment variable only applies to the less program, not more. more is extremely primitive, even the manpage mentions it, and steers uses toward less. dave doesn't explain why he wants to use more specifically, but I always assume people have their reasons in such situations.
I tried to replicate dave's issue on 2.39.3, and while more didn't clear the screen without the -c or -p option, I noticed a different issue. When I printed from redirected output (i.e., not from a regular file) the -c or -p option would not clear the screen. Everything worked as expected on 2.33.1, so I think it's another bug. It seems util-linux is all over the place lately.
Thanks, I just tried mmdebstrap on an old MacBook and it worked perfectly. This tool, along with the arch-install-scripts, makes bootstrapping a breeze. I have a small stack of old laptops here I've been resurrecting, mainly as an experiment. Each one has shocked me with how completely usable it is with a lightweight Devuan installation.
Edit: I forgot all about the merged usr issue until I got farther along in the process. If you want to run a merged usr, mmdebstrap doesn't have the equivalent of debootstrap's --merged-usr option. However, the manual gives an example of how you can duplicate the functionality with hooks:
--setup-hook='for d in bin sbin lib; do ln -s usr/$d "$1/$d";
mkdir -p "$1/usr/$d"; done'
Since I had forgotten about it until after the bootstrap was complete, I just installed the usrmerge package.
I encountered the exact same error during my latest bootstrap. I got around it by bootstrapping with --variant=minbase, then installing the packages that required the systemd shim after chrooting into the new system. It wasn't really any extra trouble, as I had a substantial list of additional packages to install anyway.
Sorry Marjorie, I'm not sure why I didn't see your post when I searched for help on this issue. I'm glad you went ahead and posted the whole script in this thread, since the maintainer has said he might remove it from future versions.
Edit to add: I see you also said this nftables init script is included in recent versions of orphan-sysvinit-scripts. I'm not familiar with that package, but I just read the description, and it sounds as if it should install the script for you automatically when you install the nftables package.
I think it differs from the current official version in default start and stop.
Right, and that was the only part I had to edit. If you used the current script as-is, it never actually loads your ruleset. I'm not sure why he set it up that way, maybe to force you to actually read it before using it?
Another thing that might trip some people up is the fact that 'service nftables status' doesn't actually print anything, the way a lot of service scripts do. It just sets the exit value, so you will need to check that somehow. For example, this will give you a typical status message:
printf "nftables is "; if service nftables status; then printf "running.\n"; else printf "stopped.\n"; fi
Of course, you can always modify the init script to print a status message automatically.
I thought other users attempting to build a firewall with nftables might find this information useful. While the nftables package doesn't install an init script on Devuan, there is a sample init script located under the installed documentation at /usr/share/doc/nftables/examples/sysvinit. However, it may go away soon, according to the README:
Given Debian default init system is systemd, I have no intention to support sysvinit apart of providing this example file... I will probably drop all sysvinit-related stuff like this in the future.
The script needs to be edited to add the appropriate runlevels, but otherwise, it seems to work fine as-is. I copied it to /etc/init.d/, and installed it with update-rc.d. After rebooting, my nftables.conf was loaded automatically.
Hi rdav, I'm happy to see you've solved your issue! I'll go ahead and answer your question anyway, in case someone else needs this information in the future. I created a file named /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-intel.conf with the following contents:
Section "Device"
Identifier "Intel Graphics"
Driver "Intel"
Option "DRI" "3"
EndSection
It's also necessary to have the xserver-xorg-video-intel package installed. In most cases, people will have installed X11 via the xserver-xorg virtual package which pulls in all of the drivers automatically, so installing this package manually isn't required.
Of course, the Intel driver will only work on systems with Intel iGPUs! The Xorg documentation recommends using the modesetting driver with later versions of Intel iGPUs, but apparently the Intel-specific driver will also work with them. My system has a 2nd gen i5, and I haven't noticed a difference either way.
Looking at the end of your Xorg.0.log, I see it progressively failing to load various video drivers due to permission issues, then exiting with a "no screens found" error:
[ 646.568] (EE) open /dev/dri/card0: Permission denied
[ 646.568] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for modesetting
[...]
[ 646.569] (EE) Unable to find a valid framebuffer device
[ 646.569] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for fbdev
[...]
[ 646.569] (EE) open /dev/fb0: Permission denied
[ 646.569] vesa: Refusing to run, Framebuffer or dri device present
[ 646.569] (WW) VGA arbiter: cannot open kernel arbiter, no multi-card support
[ 646.569] (EE) Screen 0 deleted because of no matching config section.
[...]
Fatal server error:
[ 646.569] (EE) no screens found(EE)
A similar thing happened to me several days ago after an Excalibur update. The system had an Intel iGPU and had been using the modesetting driver, which stopped working for unknown reasons. I suspect it was related to the usrmerge issues, as it happened at the same time as other confirmed usrmerge issues. I was able to get X running again by forcing it to use the Intel driver. It's possible the modesetting driver would work again now that I've merged /usr, but I haven't had a chance to test it.
Thanks stopAI! I didn't realize that pipewire-pulse was a separate program from pipewire itself. Apparently it can even send audio over the network, which is something I just happened to be looking for today:
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire … rk-support
The computer turns off from the power supply; it does not know any sleep modes from birth. smile
The issue JWM-Kit references likely doesn't affect you if you're running Windows 7. As far as I can tell, Windows' "fake shutdown" "fast startup" was implemented starting in Windows 10.
For those unfamiliar with this "feature," here's how it works. When you tell Windows 10+ to "shut down," it just... lies to you. It instead invokes sleep state S4, aka hibernation or suspend to disk. Whether or not you pull the plug at this point has no bearing, as power is not required in S4, because the system state has been saved to non-volatile memory. If you want Windows to actually shut down, you need to hold down Shift when you select the shut down option. Fast startup can also be permanently disabled in Power & sleep settings.
Mike, the line you quote is prepended with a '#', that means it is commented out, and therefore not functional. You need to delete the '#' to enable it.
I've been experiencing the same issue whenever one of my machines was disconnected from the network, but I wasn't sure what was the cause, as sudo has never behaved this way in the past. Thanks to your suggestion, I just found and un-commented the 'probe_interfaces false' line. While that did away with the error message, I'm still getting a long timeout before the command executes. So something else is apparently still misconfigured.
Thanks for the info, everyone. I was dreading having to install PA, but some applications absolutely require it.
Does anyone know if PW supports CLI control in the same way as PA, for example, with pactl & pacmd? I need it for my volume hotkey scripts, among other things. More on PA CLI control here:
https://shallowsky.com/linux/pulseaudio … -line.html
You still need the non-free nvidia firmware to use certain video acceleration features with the nouveau driver. It's discussed here:
https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/VideoAcceleration.html
The noveau driver also lacks support for a number of other features present in the proprietary driver, most notably compute. Some cards don't even have 3D support at this time. More info here:
https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/FeatureMatrix.html
I use nouveau because it does everything I need it to do, but my needs aren't all that demanding.
Apparently dpkg started displaying a warning about this issue to users sometime last year, I'm not sure if it still does. Someone filed a bug report about it last year:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … 994388#132
More discussion at lwn.net, including a comment from the responsible party, and some critical responses:
https://lwn.net/Articles/889026/
I can't vouch for the accuracy of the comments, but one person in the lwn.net thread posted the following:
There is no actual breakage. Apart from a few minor issues that were fixed long ago, everything else is purely theoretical constructions that nobody has ever seen outside of manually-crafted examples in the 3 years this has been the default for new Debian and Ubuntu installations... The reality is that you personally don't like the change. Which is cool. And it appears you are using your position to try to block it and retroactively justify it using old dpkg bugs, giving yourself a veto over the technical committee.
I'm using Firefox ESR from the repository on Excalibur with only ALSA installed, no PulseAudio or PipeWire. I didn't need to edit any configuration files. Is this a new feature? I seem to remember having to install PulseAudio to get Firefox audio in the past.
eudev apparently tries to find egrep in /bin and I had only added a symbolic link for /bin/grep to /usr/bin/grep at the time.
I may have encountered this issue today when I upgraded Excalibur on a couple of different laptops. I saw some eudev errors during boot, but I wasn't able to find any related info anywhere in /var/log. Is there somewhere else these errors might have been logged?
Anything that accessed the display backlight had stopped working: console blanking no longer turned off the backlight, and brightnessctl couldn't find the display. Also, I'm not sure if it was related, but X would no longer start with the modesetting driver. Oddly, it still worked with the Intel and nouveau drivers (on different machines.)
I went ahead and installed the usrmerge package. It failed on the first pass, but I got lucky, and only had to delete a few relatively unimportant files to get it to finish. Everything seemed to be working normally again on the next boot, with no errors reported.
Edited to add: I just ran usrmerge on the second laptop with zero errors, which was a pleasant surprise. The backlight is working again on this machine as well; however, a Minecraft server is still failing to start, so it appears I still have other issues. The Minecraft issue was due to a Java update, and unrelated to usrmerge. All is now working on this system as well.