bgstack15 wrote:

To be on topic, and probably to repeat earlier stuff which I'm not bothering to read: A lot of packages drop files into systemd locations. It doesn't harm a system to have /usr/lib/systemd/system/$FOOBAR.service as a file. It just doesn't help either.

If you would like to contribute to how Devuan operates, we meet weekly. You can read the announcement for how to attend the meetings: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/2 … 7c.en.html.

network-mananger still cause some problems.. and now i found systemd files present in some non managed devuan packages..

i search at the search tool site of devuan and we can found several systemd files present in the system:

https://pkginfo.devuan.org/xsl-bin/pack … n=0.69.0-2

it seems that debhelper 11+ integrates dh_systemd, devuan developers need to manage the buils of this and remove that code.. most easy way is an auto_dh_systemd empty section in debian/rules of rebuild debian merged packages..

there also other amprolla merged ones that are not managed by devuan such as the famous courier-imad so widelly used:

i search at the search tool site of devuan and we can found several systemd files present in the system:

https://pkginfo.devuan.org/xsl-bin/pack … .6+1.0.6-1  it put a /lib/systemd/system/courier-imap.service file and also trigger into postinstall file..

security updates need also be tracked i noted the delayed way of devuan respect the souorce of the packages (debian)

fsmithred wrote:

Security updates are sometimes late in devuan because amprolla gets confused when it sometimes gets a 404 on a debian repo. When this happens, it's usually discovered and fixed within a few days. You've probably seen the discussions on this forum about it.

There are people working on this, and based on something I was told a few days ago, it might already be fixed.

Thanks, that's a good response.. i noted the problem as i said.. and some time ago there was a project to do the same at the Devuan side! what happened with that? was dissapear and i cannot found any hint about

About amprolla i talked about the disavantages in old days but (cos erasing are the rule) i lost the info in devuan sites.. I proposed an idea similar to Debian mentors, but morte with a build site like OBS, i.e. something like PPA for winbuntu, due Devuan limitations on resources and manpowers, the most cheap way is request support of Devuan images in OBS (Opensuse Build Service).

finally at last, talking about support and info, in web page they changed the color scheme of the web page, now there is a decent contrast, but the information is too general, I searched a lot how many years of support has each release and it is not there, this is because each release changes respect of the software included and this influences the supported one

zapper wrote:

But yeah, its 5 years unless you use Extended Term Support builds and I looked up how much it costs, its expensive lol.

fsmithred wrote:

...that a private company is offering commercial support fo...

For those that does not know, i repeat again.. ExLTS is mostly sponsored.. but not in all, we can use the packages freelty, but companies paid the support TO BUILD packages only as they need, by example we have golang with a several bug, and no one of the companies that are paying need that package. well will not to be included.. in fact kernel is always backported, its more like the D-I backports images of kenshi muto in older days..

Ron wrote:

Came across this via Distrowatch. I think this proves that Debian's vote about init systems was a complete farce.

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/piper … 03782.html

We've been headed there for a very long time.  It started in 2014 with the GR vote on init diversity that inspired the creation of Devuan.  This excellent post-mortem by dasein analyzes all the gory details.  A must read if you want to understand how we have gotten to where we are:

Combatting revisionist history

Pedro, you probably don't want to read this.

mckaygerhard wrote:

again talking without well knowed ! everybody can have free access to those security updates..

Either you don't know what you are talking about or you are deliberately spreading misinformation. I think it's the latter. You said that Debian offers 7 years of support. That is simply not true.

You don't know what goes on here. You just come by every now and then to throw shit on the project. Are you getting paid to do this? I don't have the time or desire to track down and identify all your alternate "facts". So I now have to assume that everything you say is false.

zapper wrote:

This is why I believe we need more people working on an alternative operating system such as HyperbolaBSD.

Although,  unless more people work on it, it won't be out till 2024 for the base system alone.

That all being said, I hope devuan will last for another 4-5 years the way it is at least... if not forever.

Dunno if that will happen though.

Only two options may exist in the not so near future, fork the linux kernel and maintain it separately or ditch linux in favor of a new solution.

I am thinking the latter may be better.

The Linux kernel is just a kernel, and not really the problem. There just needs to be distros that buck the trend(s). I don't see how ditching it would really help matters. Until and unless the Linux kernel mandates systemd, which could happen after they kick Linus out.

Those are called 'stubs' in computer science. They are put there as a deprecation to keep apps & utilities that reference them from failing catastrophically. (It's kinda like having a "guest" bedroom, but never inviting anyone to spend the night (which demonstrates that you are socially competent, but you don't actually have to go there)).

Ron wrote:

is Virtualbox not in the repo?

No, it's so shit that the Debian developers removed it from the stable release and won't be backporting it in future.

See https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=794466 for all the gory details.

Ogis1975 wrote:

I prefer qemu-kvm

+1

zapper wrote:

dice wrote:

I have some old hardware i use on a daily basis with devuan, lately ive found that if i use anything bleeding edge like archlinux, voidlinux, artixlinux, i will get complete lockups/freezes but using devuan stable, debian stable my old machine runs fine. I cant figure this out. I have been running the backported 5.9 kernel for a few days with no issues, yet if i run archlinux linux-lts or even in voidlinux the 4.19 kernel it will just lockup/freeze unable ssh or get a tty. Might be time to update but as long as devuan still works i dont see a reason too, im hoping when chimeara becomes stable i wont have these issues and can run the computer for another few years.

Small problem, voidlinux isn't bleeding edge, its rolling release with a focus on stability.

So I guess you could say its semi rolling release. I think? I haven't used it a whole lot, but, I also noticed that using musl's voidlinux is a little more buggy.

Yeah it says stable rolling release, for me not so stable and this was not the musl variation but the glibc variation via netinstall (yes it can be done in voidlinux, similar to the arch way). I installed it the other day and no word of a lie the computer froze in the first 2 minutes. Basic xfce4 install. Im not about to complain to them though, the laptop i tested it on is ten years old. Anyhow i might be able to get my hands on a later model laptop from 2015/16, a lenovo x250 - i5, has a tiny screen though at 13.3 inches, im used to 15 inches on my toshiba sat.

Might be time to say goodbye to the toshiba, but i live in hope of making this thing work for 15 years, hopefully devuan can get me there

Edit: i have an even older dell laptop from around 2008 that is now happily buzzing away streaming some youtube at low res using slitaz linux, pretty sure it will last another 2 - 3 years with a battery upgrade.

I have some old hardware i use on a daily basis with devuan, lately ive found that if i use anything bleeding edge like archlinux, voidlinux, artixlinux, i will get complete lockups/freezes but using devuan stable, debian stable my old machine runs fine. I cant figure this out. I have been running the backported 5.9 kernel for a few days with no issues, yet if i run archlinux linux-lts or even in voidlinux the 4.19 kernel it will just lockup/freeze unable ssh or get a tty. Might be time to update but as long as devuan still works i dont see a reason too, im hoping when chimeara becomes stable i wont have these issues and can run the computer for another few years.

zapper wrote:

The mei module and the hdcp modules

They're both open source and they're not loaded unless you need them.

zapper wrote:

how to disable that stuff

Create a file at /etc/modprobe.d/block_nasties.conf with this content:

install mei /bin/true
install mei-hdcp /bin/true

^ That will stop the modules from ever being loaded.

EDIT: see https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/driver-api/mei/ for an explanation of the kernel interface for the management engine.