Experiences with Ceres?

fab161 · 2022-07-04 19:54:46

Hey y'all, today I installed Devuan again. In the past weeks I got some issues with audio (alsa, pulseaudio, pipewire) on Debian and Debian-based distros -- sadly, Devuan was no exception. Although I tried much things out to get the stuff working, nothing worked besides updating to the testing/unstable branches. So I did this with Devuan too and moved to Ceres through Daedalus. Now I'm on a so called "unstable" Devuan system with these active lines in /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main non-free contrib
deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main non-free contrib

Coming from Debian unstable and Artix I think this shouldn't go too bad..
So my question to you: Do you have any experiences with running Devuan Ceres as a daily driver?

sgage · 2022-07-04 22:06:17

fab161 wrote:

Hey y'all, today I installed Devuan again. In the past weeks I got some issues with audio (alsa, pulseaudio, pipewire) on Debian and Debian-based distros -- sadly, Devuan was no exception. Although I tried much things out to get the stuff working, nothing worked besides updating to the testing/unstable branches. So I did this with Devuan too and moved to Ceres through Daedalus. Now I'm on a so called "unstable" Devuan system with these active lines in /etc/apt/sources.list:
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main non-free contrib
deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main non-free contrib
Coming from Debian unstable and Artix I think this shouldn't go too bad..
So my question to you: Do you have any experiences with running Devuan Ceres as a daily driver?

I use Chimaera as my daily driver, and it feels like stable to me. I check out Ceres once in a while, and it seems solid at the moment, but why not use Chimaera? Packages move from unstable to testing quite quickly, and it seems to be a bit more coherent. But whatever floats your boat.

ralph.ronnquist · 2022-07-04 23:23:33

Just to be sure:

Devuan's "stable" is a link currently pointing at "chimaera"
Devuan's "testing" is a link currently pointing at "daedalus", and
Devuam's "ceres" is a link pointing at "unstable".

It's typically as stable to use Devuan's "unstable" as it is to use Debian's "unstable" ("sid"), because most of Devuan's packages come unaltered from Debian. Mostly it works well (better?) to run a "chimaera" installation and only add in "daedalus" packages where necessary and possible.

fab161 · 2022-07-05 05:05:12

Thanks for your replies!

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

It's typically as stable to use Devuan's "unstable" as it is to use Debian's "unstable" ("sid"), because most of Devuan's packages come unaltered from Debian. Mostly it works well (better?) to run a "chimaera" installation and only add in "daedalus" packages where necessary and possible.

I think I would consider switching to such a setup because I'm really not against the so called old packages in stable. I don't need the newest versions of packages everytime - but in this case it is kinda necessary.

My problem is that the packages I would need aren't in the official backports repository. So would it be too problematic to build a Frankendevuan (as described here: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian … kenDebian) these days?

Last edited by fab161 (2022-07-05 05:33:48)

xinomilo · 2022-07-05 07:08:31

using it as a daily driver since 2005 (debian sid - devuan ceres since 2017). a few breakings over the years, some serious (=unbootable systems), but overall a nice experience.. so you need a good apt/debian knowledge-experience in order to workaround possible bugs.
if you need a mix of newer software + some better stability, you can always go with testing/daedalus. or use stable with some apt pin for specific packages from unstable (in case they don't need newer libc6 or some other critical upgrade).

etech · 2022-07-05 08:10:03

Almost the same as xinomilo. I use 'Daedalus' as my daily driver since march this year, replacing Debian Sid, on 4 different machines.
Daedalus is OK for me, with apt pinning (a preferences file) and a good knowledge of APT.
I'm looking for the june 2022 ISO DVD of Daedalus, I can't find it on the download page ???

fab161 · 2022-07-05 09:15:10

xinomilo wrote:

if you need a mix of newer software + some better stability, you can always go with testing/daedalus. or use stable with some apt pin for specific packages from unstable (in case they don't need newer libc6 or some other critical upgrade).

I when I looked at the repository specifications for Daedalus on https://www.devuan.org/os/packages I wondered that there are no security-update options on Devuan whereas Debian has those even for testing. For that reason I went the hole way to Ceres.
My problem with the repo mix and match option is basically that stuff like alsa, pulseaudio and so on can be considered as core components of the system and it seems as those have a quite big amount of dependencies.

xinomilo · 2022-07-05 09:48:22

there is testing-security dist synced with debian, but i'm not sure it's needed. security updates usually get straight into unstable and testing.

xinomilo · 2022-07-05 09:50:26

etech wrote:

I'm looking for the june 2022 ISO DVD of Daedalus, I can't find it on the download page ???

https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=36517#p36517

sgage · 2022-07-05 10:44:42

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

Just to be sure:
Devuan's "stable" is a link currently pointing at "chimaera"
Devuan's "testing" is a link currently pointing at "daedalus", and
Devuam's "ceres" is a link pointing at "unstable".
It's typically as stable to use Devuan's "unstable" as it is to use Debian's "unstable" ("sid"), because most of Devuan's packages come unaltered from Debian. Mostly it works well (better?) to run a "chimaera" installation and only add in "daedalus" packages where necessary and possible.

Ron, you're so right! I meant to say that Daedalus is my daily driver, and is very stable for my use case. And that packages get into Daedalus from Ceres fairly quickly. Sorry for the confusion! Too much 4th o' July celebration, or something...

fab161 · 2022-07-05 14:17:02

So, I opted for a Daedalus installation for now, which should be a quite nice compromise between stability and the updated packages I need.

When I looked at the repository specifications for Daedalus on https://www.devuan.org/os/packages I wondered that there are no security-update options on Devuan whereas Debian has those even for testing. For that reason I went the hole way to Ceres

Respectively, I've remembered that wrong. Devuan stated that there is no release file in (imaginary) directories like daedalus-security and daedalus-updates, sorry for that one and possible confusion. Apparently I misunderstood stuff the Debian security-team says on this FAQ: https://www.debian.org/security/faq (especially the unstable and testing parts).

EDIT: For anybody as confused as myself:

How to upgrade to Debian (next-stable) Testing
<!> Please always upgrade to Debian Testing from current stable. Upgrading from oldstable is not supported and might encounter unexpected errors.
To upgrade to testing from current stable, if you have already installed the stable release:
Edit your apt sources, changing 'stable' (or bullseye, the current codename for stable) to 'testing' (or bookworm, the current code name for the next stable release).
Remove, disable or comment out your stable security updates apt sources (anything with security.debian.org in it).
Remove, disable or comment out any other stable-specific apt sources, like *-backports or *-updates.
Verify that your installation is not fixed to a specific release in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00default-release

--> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting

According to this, this sources list should be complete, right?

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged testing main non-free contrib
deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged testing main non-free contrib

EDIT: Similar discussion I found on the Debian Forum: https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=143325

Last edited by fab161 (2022-07-05 15:20:10)

golinux · 2022-07-05 18:34:37

In Devuan it is not advised to use "stable", "testing etc." in sources.list because Devuan and Debian are not always in sync when there is a new release. It is recommended to use the release name "chimaera", "daedalus" etc. Please have a look at this page for more information.

EDX-0 · 2022-07-06 22:20:04

Been on devuan ceres since december 2020, it just works, only thing ever broke was gimp, but i ran a sudo aptitude full-upgrade the next week and it got fixed, the obly other problem i had was with logs and cache filling up my root partition but ncdu took care of that, now i just got a cronjob to yeet all logs weekly.

brocashelm · 2022-07-08 01:35:46

Been using it for two years and counting. It's the only Devuan I really use. I had problems with Chimaera when it was still in testing, whereas stable and unstable have always been reliable for me.

I use a couple of third-party repositories (e.g. Deb Multimedia, Oibaf's Updated Open Graphics Drivers, WineHQ) that actually complement my installs, in case certain packages aren't available from Devuan. If I can't find something available that's tedious to build from source, I opt for AppImages (e.g. DuckStation).

I also recommend Bgstack15's repositories for Ceres users, especially for software such as LibreWolf and MakeMKV (makemkv-bin).

MiyoLinux · 2022-07-08 14:43:26

You may want to consider installing the package apt-listbugs.

If you do, when you run an apt update, apt will show if there are bugs in the package(s) that will be upgraded. If none are shown, then do an upgrade. If bugs are shown, look at the information provided by apt. It may list a "severe" bug, but it may not affect you. Such as, a "severe" bug with a font that you realize won't affect you. In which case, you can go ahead with the upgrade.

If there is a bug that may harm your system, you can cancel the upgrade and upgrade individual packages that aren't affected by the bug...or wait a few days to upgrade and see if the bug has been fixed with another apt update.

Just look at what apt tells you and act accordingly.

May the apt be with you!

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#1 2022-07-04 19:54:46

Experiences with Ceres?

#2 2022-07-04 22:06:17

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#3 2022-07-04 23:23:33

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#4 2022-07-05 05:05:12

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#5 2022-07-05 07:08:31

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#6 2022-07-05 08:10:03

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#7 2022-07-05 09:15:10

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#8 2022-07-05 09:48:22

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#9 2022-07-05 09:50:26

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#10 2022-07-05 10:44:42

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#11 2022-07-05 14:17:02

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#12 2022-07-05 18:34:37

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#13 2022-07-06 22:20:04

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#14 2022-07-08 01:35:46

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

#15 2022-07-08 14:43:26

Re: Experiences with Ceres?

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