The officially official Devuan Forum!

You are not logged in.

#1 2021-12-29 22:44:21

oui
Member
Registered: 2017-09-02
Posts: 107  

alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

At installation's time, the choice of the browser did be killed in the last years! No distro any more without Firefox-ESR...

Although

Gnome offers an own browser...

Although

about all distros pre install webkit2 etc. :-) (luakit = less than 4 MB more installation, Firefox-ESR about 220 MB !!!)

Allthough

Konqueror is again offered (but never as main browser) in KDE!

The only liliputian distro doing different is SliTaz because the old staff of SliTaz did develop a little TazWeb on webkit to use as system panel in a browser and the old guys are not willing to remake the job. SliTaz pre install (the old) Midori and offers a Xombrero package (luakit would probably also go). But both ave old libraries and are unable to show a lot of pictures and video stuff... 

The monopolist situation is Linux is a lot stronger as Bill Gate itself did ever dream (same thing concerning languages: Linux is the most powerful instrument to make English about indispensable)...

Why?

My problem with that?

The size of Firefox-ESR as I prefer use live OS's as full installed OS's...

So I continue to search for alternatives for Firefox-ESR. But it is so, that the monopolism from Firefox-"Commercial Enterprise"  afraid the Internet tools developers and encourage them to give up their activities. Hard, hard, our future in sight!

I am looking for extensions (as luakit is extensable) for Luakit giving access to about all the same options as in Firefox (or Seamonkey).

An idea where to find adequate stuff?

Offline

#2 2021-12-29 23:44:29

manyroads
Member
From: 20 Jan 2021 ~ "Free at last"
Registered: 2020-08-18
Posts: 59  
Website

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

Perhaps this will help you decide....
https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share


Pax vobiscum,
Mark Rabideau - ManyRoads
i3wm, dwm WM ~ Reg. Linux User #449130
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken

Offline

#3 2021-12-30 00:56:47

andyprough
Member
Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 237  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

oui wrote:

I am looking for extensions (as luakit is extensable) for Luakit giving access to about all the same options as in Firefox (or Seamonkey).

An idea where to find adequate stuff?

I put a couple of sets of instructions on getting adblock and a simplified version of noscript working on luakit in this thread: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/configur … it-browser
Also some info on setting a user agent string and changing away from google as the default search engine.

I haven't researched further yet. If you find some info on how to make it more extensible, please post about it. The pro's of laukit seem to be the minimal ram usage and the vim keybindings. The con's include an increased cpu usage on media-heavy pages and its inability to render a few rare pages which require webgl. When I use it for reading and researching and let mpv handle the video streaming, it seems to be an excellent browser.


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

Offline

#4 2021-12-30 01:05:17

Ron
Member
Registered: 2018-04-22
Posts: 397  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

The problem is Gooble is a monopoly and the U.S. government is doing nothing about it. Since Gooble is a monopoly, they dictate web standards (which of course they incorporate into their browser), and it's always a catch-up game for browsers not based on the same engine. Add in the fact of lazy web developers, and you have the mess of an internet we have today.

I'd suggest Pale Moon, but there will be a handful of sites that don't render properly on it, because of the 2 issues above. (For those, I hold my nose and use Vivaldi.)

Last edited by Ron (2021-12-30 01:07:38)

Offline

#5 2022-02-26 02:44:20

Cheerful Charlie
Member
Registered: 2017-01-30
Posts: 16  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

There are a number of attempts to deal with this problem.  From Degoogled Chromium, to Waterfox and many others.  Perhaps you might want Brave?  Or Pale Moon or Sea Monkey?  Good luck on your search for browser perfection.  Google is threatening big changes that may be a problem for lots of people early in 2023.
Killing a lot of popular extensions.  DuckDuckGo is promising a new browser so we will probably soon have more choices.

Offline

#6 2022-02-26 05:05:04

andyprough
Member
Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 237  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

I've been on a similar quest, looking for an independent browser. Seems like I've tried them all at this point. The three that I use most frequently are Luakit, Links2 and Pale Moon.

Luakit is a very capable browser if you configure it correctly and learn enough of the keybindings. If you love Vim or NeoVim for your text editor, you would love Luakit. I wrote up some tips for configuring it for maximum usefulness here: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/configur … it-browser

Links2 is a simple terminal-based browser with no ability to run javascript, but it has a graphical mode and I've gotten a lot out of it. I still use it daily for a lot of my tech forum reading online. I put some tips on making it more useful and making it better looking here: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/graphica … 5mb-memory

Pale Moon is the best of these three. It is a fork of an old version of Firefox, and has changed so much that it is now its own independent browser engine called Goanna. It is quite capable, and has a lot of useful extensions.


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

Offline

#7 2022-02-27 15:04:33

Ogis1975
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 259  
Website

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

Luakit on my system is incredibly slow. Slow start up, opens pages very slowly (i solved this problem by disabling hardware acceleration). But the browser itself launches very slowly. In a word, I don’t recommend it to anyone.


What economists call over-production is but a production that is above the purchasing power of the worker, who is reduced to poverty by capital and state.
            ----+- Peter Kropotkin -+----

Offline

#8 2022-02-27 20:49:52

andyprough
Member
Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 237  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

Ogis1975 wrote:

Luakit on my system is incredibly slow. Slow start up, opens pages very slowly (i solved this problem by disabling hardware acceleration). But the browser itself launches very slowly. In a word, I don’t recommend it to anyone.

For me, it speeds up to an acceptable speed if I've got adblock filters in place and if I'm using noscript in the "disable javascript" setting by default (toggle it to enable js). But, yes, otherwise it suffers from the slowness and limitations of all the webkit-based browsers. They seem particularly slowed down by ads in my experience, moreso than other "major" browsers.


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

Offline

#9 2022-02-28 12:38:50

Ogis1975
Member
Registered: 2017-04-21
Posts: 259  
Website

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

andyprough wrote:

For me, it speeds up to an acceptable speed if I've got adblock filters in place

I did the same. The speed has increased a bit, but compared to Firefox, it works much slower. And that’s really bad. Let's say it's still acceptable, but when luakit starts three times slower than Firefox it's unacceptable to me. I found another alternative-qutebrowser. The version in the official repository is old, so I compiled the latest version from github with virtualenv. This browser works incomparably faster than luakit, but it also has its drawbacks. Without a clear reason its crashed (after about 4 hours usage). I also tried another browser-surf. The version found in the official application repository has a major drawback- youtube website does not work with this browser. The problem is that using an open source video driver (nouveau), this browser hangs an xorg session. Only a magic key combination-

reisub

helps.  With source source video driver browser simple crashed. This problem has been known for four years (in Debian bug tracker) however, it has not been corrected. So I compiled this browser myself and am now using it. It’s not ideal, far from beautiful, but available to use. I don’t know of other alternatives.

Last edited by Ogis1975 (2022-02-28 12:39:36)


What economists call over-production is but a production that is above the purchasing power of the worker, who is reduced to poverty by capital and state.
            ----+- Peter Kropotkin -+----

Offline

#10 2022-02-28 15:06:54

andyprough
Member
Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 237  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

I've got a friend who has fallen in love with the badwolf browser, another WebKit front-end. Might be worth a try for you. He downloads the adblock lists in a version that's ready to paste into your /etc/hosts file, there's a few preformatted lists like that available on github.

My experience with qute and surf wasn't great, but then again I didn't compile them like you are. I think if I would try them again I would spin up an Arch distro in a vm and see if the AUR had a template for building the latest git version of the browser and the latest git version of the underlying WebKit engine.  If I was satisfied with the results then I would manually compile them on Devuan, tinkering with their configs to suit my tastes. That's a lot of extra time though for something that ultimately probably won't satisfy my needs.


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

Offline

#11 2022-05-15 15:21:29

dodcel
Member
Registered: 2022-05-15
Posts: 5  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

Hi.
Is Pale Moon in Devuan repositories?

Offline

#12 2022-05-15 15:37:50

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 2,519  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

Welcome to the forum!

No it isn't.  You can search for available packages HERE.

Offline

#13 2022-05-15 15:47:53

dodcel
Member
Registered: 2022-05-15
Posts: 5  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

golinux wrote:

Welcome to the forum!

No it isn't.  You can search for available packages HERE.

Thanks for the welcome.
I will read the link, thank you.

Offline

#14 2022-05-15 15:58:43

dodcel
Member
Registered: 2022-05-15
Posts: 5  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

I've used Pale Moon before on MX Linux and it's already in the repositories.
Pale Moon is a good alternative to old computers and notebooks.

Offline

#15 2022-05-16 02:09:29

brocashelm
Member
Registered: 2020-06-29
Posts: 80  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

dodcel wrote:

Hi.
Is Pale Moon in Devuan repositories?

No, but there are some third-party repositories you can try, such as this one. Just match the codename to your current distro. You can also just download the official binaries from Pale Moon (they come with builtin update managers, so no need to worry about being behind a version).


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Offline

#16 2022-05-16 15:51:26

chris2be8
Member
Registered: 2018-08-11
Posts: 141  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

If you do have to use Firefox (or other not very privacy friendly browser) it's a good idea to shut down your internet connection before starting it for the first time. Then you can go through settings to switch off telemetry, set home page to a blank page (or some page you trust), switch on "do not track", etc without giving it a chance to phone home *before* you tell it not to phone home. But you might need another system to search for *all* the settings you need to change.

It would be nice if distros could ship Firefox with default settings like that, but that's probably deliberately made difficult.

Offline

#17 2022-05-17 02:25:24

James1138
Member
Registered: 2018-09-27
Posts: 38  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

FYI. Palemoon versions after 28 no longer allows installing legacy Firefox extensions like Errorzilla without major headaches/tweaking. SeaMonkey has a confirmed major bug that prevents typing text into Facebook when trying to create a new message. A person can type messages into a clipboard or notepad then copy and paste - but a person cannot type directly into Facebook. Also some websites like YouTube do not display properly - Google Earth will not display at all!!  And Vivaldi does not like some Chrome extensions - for example themes!  I tried all 3 for months and ended up with Chromium.

James
Indiana

Offline

#18 2022-05-17 02:44:22

GlennW
Member
Registered: 2019-07-18
Posts: 234  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

James1138 wrote:

FYI. Palemoon versions after 28 no longer allows installing legacy Firefox extensions like Errorzilla without major headaches/tweaking. SeaMonkey has a confirmed major bug that prevents typing text into Facebook when trying to create a new message. A person can type messages into a clipboard or notepad then copy and paste - but a person cannot type directly into Facebook. Also some websites like YouTube do not display properly - Google Earth will not display at all!!  And Vivaldi does not like some Chrome extensions - for example themes!  I tried all 3 for months and ended up with Chromium.

James
Indiana

I found the same problem with Palemoon and facebook.

Really frustrating.

There is one more browser, I use, that has not been mentioned in this thread, flashpeak-slimjet (slimjet) that is also not in the repo, but has both source and .deb packages. You may find it here... https://www.slimjet.com/en/dlpage.php

Another browser I use is "webbrowser" , from GIT. I had to build and compile it myself, using .mozconfig to configure the sources, but it works really well.

https://git.nuegia.net/webbrowser.git/

Hope this helps

Offline

#19 2022-05-17 11:54:54

dodcel
Member
Registered: 2022-05-15
Posts: 5  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

Hi brocashelm.
Thanks for the tips, I will download the package binaries and install.

Last edited by dodcel (2022-05-17 11:59:03)

Offline

#20 2022-05-17 11:57:05

dodcel
Member
Registered: 2022-05-15
Posts: 5  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

brocashelm wrote:
dodcel wrote:

Hi.
Is Pale Moon in Devuan repositories?

No, but there are some third-party repositories you can try, such as this one. Just match the codename to your current distro. You can also just download the official binaries from Pale Moon (they come with builtin update managers, so no need to worry about being behind a version).

Thanks for the tips, I will download the package binaries and install.

Offline

#21 2022-05-19 10:53:06

czeekaj
Member
Registered: 2019-06-12
Posts: 75  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

I see there is a iceweasel package. I opted to use that.
Although i see no real change between firefox-esr. It's still in the repo so I use it instead.

Offline

#22 2022-06-19 14:07:57

dave
Member
Registered: 2020-09-28
Posts: 9  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

czeekaj wrote:

I see there is a iceweasel package. I opted to use that.
Although i see no real change between firefox-esr. It's still in the repo so I use it instead.

That's because the current iceweasel is a transitional package which loads the firefox-esr deb as a 'required dependency'.

Or in other words: Iceweasel *is* Firefox-ESR

Sigh.   See e.g. https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/pack … -1~deb10u1

Offline

#23 2022-06-19 16:15:31

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 436  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

dave wrote:
czeekaj wrote:

I see there is a iceweasel package. I opted to use that.
Although i see no real change between firefox-esr. It's still in the repo so I use it instead.

That's because the current iceweasel is a transitional package which loads the firefox-esr deb as a 'required dependency'.

Or in other words: Iceweasel *is* Firefox-ESR

Sigh.   See e.g. https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/pack … -1~deb10u1

Huh, I thought most debian AND devuan  users knew this

Meh, w/e lol.

Seems palemoon finally got back on track...

Someone who was a part of the team was forced out of it due to them going bonkers...

A "core dev" left...

This had happened a few months prior, but I never saw reason to mention about this here...

As good as badwolf is, it still needs ublock origin like functionality or better.

And something even more effective then both versions of noscript combined, before I could use it again.

Then I will probably do so again...

wink

Especially if bookmarks are added.

Till then, I will do what I think works best. smile


Black Lives Matter!  I am white, but I prefer equality over hatred.
Haughtiness comes before a fall, pride before destruction.
Peace be with you!
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon!

Offline

#24 2022-06-19 19:01:16

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 2,386  

Re: alternatives to Mozilla's and Chomethings

zapper wrote:

A "core dev" left

Ha! Good riddance Tobin you fat cunt.

"Mentally ill" my ass. Autism != mental illness. FFS.

EDIT: apologies for the off-topic post. I couldn't contain my glee.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2022-06-19 19:02:58)


To obtain a root shell use su -. Using just su will result in "command not found" messages.

Offline

Board footer