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#1 2019-06-14 18:11:59

tmartins
Member
Registered: 2019-05-14
Posts: 12  

Init system support in Debian

Hey guys,

I'm worried about this:

Init system support in Debian
https://lwn.net/Articles/770093/

How much do you guys think that it will cost to "Make Debian Great Again", by updating both sysvinit-core and systemd-shim?

If have few Bitcoins that I mined back in 2011 and I would love to donate for this!

What about publishing all the required issues on https://www.bountysource.com ?

I'm facing serious problems with systemd in a KVM host with Linux Bridges and BOND. A simple "apt upgrade" at the host AND systemd is in the mix, it simply BREAK the connectivity to ALL Virtual Machines for a few seconds!!! It's freaking unbelievable that Debian has this ugly toy in a "stable" release. Debian is becoming Ubuntu, or something much, much worse.

I don't want to stop using Debian / Ubuntu, honestly, Devuan is for me, a safeguard for the future. And I'm grateful for it!

Cheers!
Thiago

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#2 2019-06-14 21:32:24

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 343  
Website

Re: Init system support in Debian

tmartins wrote:

updating both sysvinit-core and systemd-shim?

The shim is dead and buried but sysvinit-core is alive & well and receiving updates in Debian:

https://packages.debian.org/experimental/sysvinit-core

The Debian developers have adopted the Devuan elogind package to keep init diversity, as your link explains.

https://packages.debian.org/buster/elogind

I'm sure they would welcome any donations smile


Fabricando fit faber

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#3 2019-06-16 19:00:34

tmartins
Member
Registered: 2019-05-14
Posts: 12  

Re: Init system support in Debian

That's awesome! I didn't know that elogind was available on Debian! I also didn't know that a new sysvinit-core was available on Debian's Experimental repository!

Then, I just install Debian SID, added the Experimental repo and `apt install sysvinit-core`, `reboot` and voialá! No more systemd as PID1.

So, I'm curious and genuinely asking: what's exactly the point of Devuan?

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#4 2019-06-16 19:36:26

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,774  

Re: Init system support in Debian

tmartins wrote:

So, I'm curious and genuinely asking: what's exactly the point of Devuan?

Perhaps to make Debian great again.  Just imagine what Debian would look like if Devuan did not exist.  Shudder . . .

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#5 2019-06-16 20:05:38

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 343  
Website

Re: Init system support in Debian

The elogind package was created by the Devuan developers and adopted by Debian.

Thanks Devuan!


Fabricando fit faber

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#6 2019-06-16 22:28:19

tmartins
Member
Registered: 2019-05-14
Posts: 12  

Re: Init system support in Debian

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

The elogind package was created by the Devuan developers and adopted by Debian.

Thanks Devuan!

NICE!

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#7 2019-06-16 22:33:49

tmartins
Member
Registered: 2019-05-14
Posts: 12  

Re: Init system support in Debian

golinux wrote:
tmartins wrote:

So, I'm curious and genuinely asking: what's exactly the point of Devuan?

Perhaps to make Debian great again.  Just imagine what Debian would look like if Devuan did not exist.  Shudder . . .

True.

I imagine that on Devuan, the "regular packages" are built with something like "--no-systemd" option?

I think that a daemon linked against systemd will not work properly if systemd isn't PID 1, is that right? So, on Devuan, is not that there is not only "no systemd as PID 1", but also, systemd dependencies are removed *everywhere* (I'm honestly guessing / questioning here lol) ?

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#8 2019-06-16 22:54:07

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,774  

Re: Init system support in Debian

List of banned Debian packages.  Some may never be decontaminated of systemd.

List of Devuan packages.  Not all of them are systemd-related.

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#9 2019-06-18 02:45:19

tmartins
Member
Registered: 2019-05-14
Posts: 12  

Re: Init system support in Debian

golinux wrote:

List of banned Debian packages.  Some may never be decontaminated of systemd.

List of Devuan packages.  Not all of them are systemd-related.

Thank you! I do have an account on git.devuan.org...  lol

I didn't know about the banned Debian packages backlist.

This brings me a few more questions!

Let's pretend for a moment, that Debian 11 comes with "sysvinit-core" (i.e., no systemd as PID 1 available), then, what are they planning to do with those "banned packages"? Create different builds without systemd?

For example, Debian has 2 MTR packages, one compiled with XOrg/GTK dependencies (`apt install mtr`), and another just with ncurses UI (`apt install mtr-tuny`). Vim is similar...

So, following this logic, do you think that Debian with `sysvinit-core` might provide, let's say, 2 Conntrackd packages (you know, it's "infected" with systemd today - http://ral-arturo.blogspot.com/2016/08/ … with.html), like, `apt install conntrackd` (with libsystemd0) and `apt install conntrackd-sane` (without libsystemd0)?

Cheers!

Last edited by tmartins (2019-06-18 20:37:43)

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#10 2019-06-18 03:06:37

golinux
Administrator
Registered: 2016-11-25
Posts: 1,774  

Re: Init system support in Debian

Speculation is not useful; it's a foolish pastime.  We have a lot of work to do before we can even begin to sort those issues.  It's best to just put one foot in front of the other in the present moment and we'll get there eventually.

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