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#826 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 14:49:14
zapper can i ask what programs you use for network on hyperbola?
dhcpcd-gtk is one of them
dhcpcd + wpa_supplicant both of which seem to work without dbus in Hyperbola.
and yes, wifi with wpa2 and 2.4ghz as well as 5ghz works fine.
#827 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 14:42:20
Just use firefox-esr with a decent user.js to filter out all the crapware.
if you opt for no dbus configuration, dbus is not activated as andyprough mentions. The libs still need to be available but dbus is not activated so is not used in the usual way by init thus negating any security vuln in my opinion. If you know a thing or two about openbsd you will know that messagebus needs to be activated for dbus to work and firefox will run as long as the libs are satisfied.
Saying that, i dont care these days, nothing i do on a computer warrants spec-ops type privacy, im actually looking to quit computing altogether. I think it has run its course and is a doomed endeavor and blight on human interactivity.
Perhaps, but dbus will be removed from Hyperbola, at some point, thus, I see no purpose in such things.
As for computing, I don't think its completely doomed yet, unless you want newer technology, that is x86 based or arm64 based.
Actually, I will just say, anything with a backdoor like intel me or in general is a problem. Especially if it connects to the internet with that backdoor. If the backdoor is non-remote, meaning it doesn't do anything over the network, its not a huge issue as far as I am concerned.
That being said, MNT Reform gives me some hope. I await the pocket version, but yeah, 80% of hardware at least is crap due to backdoors that operate remotely and cannot be removed...
I had to add that part cause otherwise its more like 95% lol.
#828 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 14:18:47
zapper wrote:That being said, Hyperbola devs are in a bit of a pickle, because of palemoon devs going balisitic over some users not following their trademarks which resulted in a cascade of people removing their commits from uxp.
According to the "horse's mouth," your cascade of people is only 2. Where are you getting your information?
That's fair, to say, but yeah, one of the Hyperbola devs worked on UXP for a bit, but at one point, Tobin wanted nothing to do with him despite the fact that he only was trying to help make UXP better.
I would like to be wrong, but honestly, I trust Luke more in general, and long story short, they did hide their newest git development... they closed their github page. If you didn't notice, and the palemoon repo, here:
https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProductions
Notice how UXP is no longer there...
They seem to be developing behind the scenes now, meaning less people can participate.
Also this is no longer worked on:
https://repo.palemoon.org/mcp-graveyard/UXP
at least there anyways...
Hmm... although this may prove your point:
https://github.com/RealityRipple/UXP
Unless Ripple is doing it without moonchild's permission...
Meh...
I am getting mixed messages so far it seems...
I did support UXP for a while, if you recall on here. To the point of arguing the same point you did which caused some threads to get locked xD.
Hmm.... I will have to think about this more...
Anywho, they still have been a toxic bunch, so I will wait and see what comes forward I guess.
#829 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 11:56:10
If only, mpv was the solution for all videos online... ;P
Alas, I like old cartoons, and some sites work with iceweasel-uxp, and not mpv.
Epiphany might actually work like iceweasel-uxp in this sense.
Either way though, we will just have to see...
It turns out though, there are some dbus issues with epiphany, but one of the devs of Hyperbola thinks it may be fixable aka, it could work without it if he gives it enough time to work on. 
We'll see eh?
Maybe this is the palemoon alternative I need...
#830 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 00:45:26
zapper wrote:Long story short, I am not positive, but it may work as a replacement. I gotta check when they are updated though.
Personally, I am not a fan of epiphany, but, whatever.
Netsurf is written in C, did you know that? And it's GPL2 - did I mention that? And it has its own independent browser engine, did I mention that also? Someone who hates Rust and is worried about free licensing might want to look into it, just sayin...
EDIT: Oh my goodness, I'm running Netsurf, and my total system memory usage is 144mb. That's about a third of what the big bloaty browsers bring my system ram usage to. Where has this little gem been all my life?? It's got adblocking, it's not really fingerprint-able because javascript isn't fully implemented. It's a thing of beauty. It runs on RISC OS, on Haiku and BeOS. It has a framebuffer version that doesn't require GTK. What's not to love?
Some of us like to play videos online though...
Also, I am not sure if netsurf even is updated anymore.
Does netsurf work like that? I know there is adblocking in epiphany also.
#831 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-06 23:34:56
Latest librewolf and latest libreoffice running on Void without dbus.
The trick is to use the "ignorepkg" function, and after installing gtk3, remove the dbus dependencies that were installed along with it. librewolf and libreoffice need gtk3 to run, but they don't need dbus. gtk3 says it needs dbus, but there's no problem without it.
This should work on Hyperbola as well - I'll try it this week.
I was also able to install some other browsers once I had done this - surf, badwolf, epiphany, midori, netsurf, and vimb. Most of them are WebKit/GTK+ browsers. Netsurf is an independent browser with its own engine (and quite a nice one - GPL too).
Huh, its interesting you mention epiphany, because I tried it in devuan and sound works, also, I tried to build it in Hyperbola also, fascinating thing is...
It actually didn't build, but not because of any weird libraries, except for libportal, libdazzle and libhandy not being in the system as well as old libraries...
Long story short, I am not positive, but it may work as a replacement. I gotta check when they are updated though.
#832 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-06 03:57:32
zapper wrote:That being said, Hyperbola devs are in a bit of a pickle, because of palemoon devs going balisitic over some users not following their trademarks which resulted in a cascade of people removing their commits from uxp.
. . .
Sadly, that's become what this situation has been reduced to. Thank the palemoon devs for being a bunch of absolute morons.I was wrong about Palemoon devs being any good it begins to seem...
Requiring people to respect their trademarks, and the open source license, which is what I think you mean, and is the latest problem, does not make them morons. If people don't respect the open source license, then what's the point? I think those who don't respect the open source license or their trademarks are the morons who are causing all the problems.
Also, the reddit shithole is run by rabid anti-palemoon folks, so you're not going to get the facts there. As a matter of fact, they have posted outright lies. And your links to the Pale Moon threads actually prove my point. If you go there and try to post facts, you get banned. It's already happened.
The point I am trying to make is more than that, in retaliation to those same people, Tobin began to change his commits from the BSD license to who knows what...
Also, they are making it much harder not just for those people to fork, but EVERYONE!
So yeah, its more than that... hate to break it to ya, but is not outright lies, also, as I said, they doing the development on their own private repo now, and that hardly seems like its in the spirit of open source. Even if it's legal so long as they provide the source code, which they are doing now.
Even a dev friend of mine, who had nothing to do with those people who caused the problem, said they noticed some conflicts of interest take place after that where the commits they had slowly were removed and changed from their current license.
I should also add, yes I know the reddit shithole is full of alot of anti-palemoon folks. That was why I didn't give it much thought until after I saw the fate of forks thread and I waited to see what would happen.
Long story short, at best they are as bad as mozilla, at worst, much worse.
Also, I should add, their trademark doesn't do diddly to prevent every entity out in the world from doing harm. I really doubt there aren't safe havens where people can get away with stuff.
This all being said, I doubt you will care, you seem to have made up your mind.
This has become a crap fest of stupidity.
PS, I don't agree with mozilla's trademarks on rust or firefox either... aka, their trademarks and palemoon's trademarks are equally stupid.
Due to their restrictive nature.
That being said, I will change what I said, mozilla and palemoon are both bad. Maybe better than chrome builds, but that's not much better in light of the problems that have occurred aka, they are supposed to be the better option!
Maybe they still are, but barely...
#833 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-06 02:00:36
zapper wrote:Okay, but Hyperbola doesn't even have the libdbus or libdbus-glib. Thing is, I like many of their changes, the only issue is a web browser that is current and works.
My point being, I am kind of in a weird spot, I like most of what Hyperbola is, but the web browser issue is a problem.
If someone can make it possible, to remove those dependencies completely from a version of firefox-esr or w/e that would be awesome...
Well that's weird, cause I got Trisquel's Abrowser (Firefox-based) working on Hyperbola with no difficulty whatsoever. I didn't stop to look to see if there was anything named "dbus" or "libdbus" or what-not running. I guess I better re-install it and look at the Abrowser installation again. I deleted the partition so I could start over and install the Hyperbola 0.4 pre-release, but I'll go back to 0.3 and upgrade to the Testing repos and install Abrowser again and see what I get.
Which version are you on? 0.3.1? or 0.4...
I am curious... and also, did you remove all dbus packages on 0.4? Wondered... that will ultimately be what happens eventually I think?
#834 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-05 21:44:08
zapper wrote:I wish there was a firefox build that was libre that didn't require that dbus nonsense."
firefox-esr does not require dbus, only libdbus-1-3 and libdbus-glib-1-2
and unlike palemoon i dont even get an error message that i have to ignore
Okay, but Hyperbola doesn't even have the libdbus or libdbus-glib. Thing is, I like many of their changes, the only issue is a web browser that is current and works. 
My point being, I am kind of in a weird spot, I like most of what Hyperbola is, but the web browser issue is a problem.
If someone can make it possible, to remove those dependencies completely from a version of firefox-esr or w/e that would be awesome...
Even if the build was somewhat outdated, every so often.
#835 Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-05 04:25:00
- zapper
- Replies: 26
As suggested by Miyolinux, I am making a thread on this:
"Actually, Hyperbola devs don't trust adding rust for this reason:
https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/77234
Also, dbus is required anyhow to use it currently...
That being said, Hyperbola devs are in a bit of a pickle, because of palemoon devs going balisitic over some users not following their trademarks which resulted in a cascade of people removing their commits from uxp. So, unless that rust issue is fixed, or someone makes a build of firefox that doesn't require dbus to run, then alas, you will have to use a VM to do that stuff... ;(
Sadly, that's become what this situation has been reduced to. Thank the palemoon devs for being a bunch of absolute morons.
I was wrong about Palemoon devs being any good it begins to seem...
I feel like OpenBSD's devs might laugh at me if I told them how I feel now, about palemoon. meh... it is what it is.
At any rate, OpenBSD is becoming tempting as a backup until rust is made into a free licensed programming language... spoiler alert: its not right now!
I wish there was a firefox build that was libre that didn't require that dbus nonsense."
If you want more information here:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=27294
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=27372
https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comme … 20_public/
I should also add, you cannot download their addons on their websites without basilisk browser or palemoon...
Yikes... they want to become worse than firefox.
Also this too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comme … c_license/
Tobin supposedly began changing the licenses of his commits and in response, other devs removed their commits in retaliation to them.
Long story short... either someone else continues the fork, OR we just use firefox based browsers again.
But in my case, I don't want dbus, thus I need a way to use firefox without it. A dilemma indeed...
#836 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM KIT love fest » 2021-10-05 01:45:25
@zapper - I'm reading on the Hyperbola forum that the devs hate any rust-based web browsers, so if I put abrowser on Hyperbola that's bad.
But at the same time, if I use a rarely updated version of iceweasel-uxp (the version in Hyperbola stable's repo is 1.5 years old now) - that's really bad from a security standpoint.
What do most Hyperbola users do in terms of web browser? Do they stick with iceweasel-uxp, or use the newer version in the Hyperboa testing repo, or do they just give up and use a "bad" rust-based browser with frequent security updates?
Actually, Hyperbola devs don't trust adding rust for this reason:
https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/77234
Also, dbus is required anyhow to use it currently...
That being said, Hyperbola devs are in a bit of a pickle, because of palemoon devs going balisitic over some users not following their trademarks which resulted in a cascade of people removing their commits from uxp. So, unless that rust issue is fixed, or someone makes a build of firefox that doesn't require dbus to run, then alas, you will have to use a VM to do that stuff... ;(
Sadly, that's become what this situation has been reduced to. Thank the palemoon devs for being a bunch of absolute morons.
I was wrong about Palemoon devs being any good it begins to seem...
I feel like OpenBSD's devs might laugh at me if I told them how I feel now, about palemoon. meh... it is what it is.
At any rate, OpenBSD is becoming tempting as a backup until rust is made into a free licensed programming language... spoiler alert: its not right now!
I wish there was a firefox build that was libre that didn't require that dbus nonsense.
I'll give you something real quick though!
#837 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM KIT love fest » 2021-10-04 04:16:47
Hey zap, check out my setup today - Hyperbola (testing) with jwm, jwm kit, and I got the latest abrowser from Trisquel running.
I'll look for your email - I think they've been getting sent to the spam folder for some reason. I'll email you my phone number so you can text me.
Hmm, okay!
PS, I think I had better stop derailing threads...
So if I make even a small comment that seems derailed, don't respond on here...
Btw, on topic of this thread, jwmkit rules!
#838 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM KIT love fest » 2021-10-02 20:45:44
Appreciated, both of you! Yeah, I had a bunch of scripts open on my other OS.
80MB without all that extra stuff is probably possible. I can check if you'd like.
That being said, thank you, both of you, especially you JWMKit...
Also to Andy, I emailed you recently...
#839 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM KIT love fest » 2021-10-02 00:02:23
zapper wrote:Camtaf wrote:Welcome, once you have something you like it is difficult to change, but XFCE is a good compromise between heavy weight desktops like Gnome & KDE, which use a lot of resources, & a Window Manager, which is my preference, especially Fluxbox.
If it is a lack of swap, you could create a swap file; but it's always better to have a partition if it is needed.
As I have said before, I myself prefer JWM.
Even before I found JWMKit, I loved it, but now its just so awesome upon finding it.
Also, as any experienced linux user knows, you can save the config and transfer it to other computers.
PS, fluxbox is decent also though!
I just like JWM because it is the lightest smallest footprint without having no panel.
Also, the more the cpu is used, the more battery life that seems to be used.
Anywho, that's the best window manager I know of that's simple, has a task panel and isn't complicated like DWM.
I highly recommend the OP of this thread to try JWM if he uses JWMKit.
If he is intermediate at linux, in skill or higher particularly.
That JWMKit does look pretty awesome. What's it do to your memory usage?
You should check for yourself, but the most I use usually is like 200mb, when I measure by htop,
I also have open, multiload-ng-systray open. volumicon, cbatticon, and a few python scripts, one to disable touchpad, a background wallpaper changer, and using xautolock + slock locking when idle for 30 mins and redshift.
The non gtk version aka.
I am not sure how much it would be if I closed all but jwm. Although this is on my main system I noticed this which doesn't use devuan, I will check if you like, but this thread seems to be getting derailed... email me if your more curious, or you could test it out yourself.
EDIT, it seems in a 4GB ram devuan beowulf install without jwmkit its like 80mb. Nothing open except htop.
I wonder if the amount of ram also affects how much memory is eaten by apps.
#840 Devuan Derivatives » JWM KIT love fest » 2021-10-01 12:31:10
- zapper
- Replies: 68
Welcome, once you have something you like it is difficult to change, but XFCE is a good compromise between heavy weight desktops like Gnome & KDE, which use a lot of resources, & a Window Manager, which is my preference, especially Fluxbox.
If it is a lack of swap, you could create a swap file; but it's always better to have a partition if it is needed.
As I have said before, I myself prefer JWM.
Even before I found JWMKit, I loved it, but now its just so awesome upon finding it.
Also, as any experienced linux user knows, you can save the config and transfer it to other computers.
PS, fluxbox is decent also though!
I just like JWM because it is the lightest smallest footprint without having no panel.
Also, the more the cpu is used, the more battery life that seems to be used.
Anywho, that's the best window manager I know of that's simple, has a task panel and isn't complicated like DWM.
I highly recommend the OP of this thread to try JWM if he uses JWMKit.
If he is intermediate at linux, in skill or higher particularly.
#841 Re: News & Announcements » devuan 4 » 2021-09-30 20:34:39
No apology necessary. Gender is completely irrelevant to me. Zero interest because I see the person not the genetic fluke.
Alrighty, still, good to know. Thank you for your patience.
#842 Re: News & Announcements » devuan 4 » 2021-09-30 19:52:33
If Golinux wants to jump in, I invite him to do so
At all times during her first 79 years in life she's admitted to the female pronoun, and most likely she'll continue with so, although as a modern person she wouldn't be too fussed.
And, the Chimaera 4.0 release will creep up on us when we least expect it; just a couple of t's to dot and i's to cross...
Yeah, I was really not aware of this, thanks for letting me know.
#843 Re: News & Announcements » devuan 4 » 2021-09-30 19:50:11
@zapper . . . what Ralph said.
Ah, I hadn't known about this, my bad.
I am surprised I never heard of this before.
Seriously, I really didn't know.
My bad
I didn't know you were female aka.
#844 Re: Off-topic » Troll appreciation thread » 2021-09-30 19:47:39
zapper wrote:blackhole wrote:headstick will be nursing a semi reading this....
What does that mean? And why exactly?
Don't feed the troll
Ah so that's what he meant...
#845 Re: Off-topic » Troll appreciation thread » 2021-09-30 10:22:36
headstick will be nursing a semi reading this....
What does that mean? And why exactly?
I am very much curious to those questions.
#846 Re: News & Announcements » devuan 4 » 2021-09-30 10:21:25
Short Answer: When It's Ready
My guess though is that it is pretty close to Stable already, but it will probably at most take a few more months. Keep in mind, debian bullseye was released not very long ago. August 14th 2021 is when it became Stable. If it becomes officially Stable within 3 months from that, awesome! If it takes 6 months from that, still great.
But yeah, I don't think it will take more than either of those dates given how close it is to Stable already.
If Golinux wants to jump in, I invite him to do so.
I really don't know aka.
I have A VM of Devuan, and it seems to run pretty darn well.
#847 Re: Installation » When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist? » 2021-09-30 00:09:27
In the future, I am going to use Libreboot or coreboot as much as possible. If a computer or motherboard isn't compatible with either of those, I simply won't buy it.
I would also say, theres only one exception I would make to that:
If it is more libre then either, such as MNT Reform or more so, then that should be an exception.
Anything else, I agree with you is utterly absurd.
Hazardous boot is for sure a microsoft idea. It is not secure in anyway shape or form.
Hence why I call it hazardous boot. ;P
#848 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM Kit Linux build 20210828 (WOW! What an improvement) » 2021-09-30 00:05:32
Cool, I saw your stable release! I appreciate it.
I hope it works as well for devuan as it does Hyperbola!
Thank you very much in advance!
#849 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » rfkill status popup » 2021-09-22 09:20:03
My wife's PC, upgraded from Beowulf to Chimaera. She gets a popup on every login requesting "Setting RfKill State requires privileges". When I log on on the same PC under my account, no popup. On my PC, same hardware, native Chimaera, I also do not get this popup. There is no bluetooth hardware built into both the PC's.
The only thing that might be different on my wifes PC is that there is a ReinerSCT tanJack deluxe for homebanking installed, but that is connected via USB and should not have bluetooth communication (no hint in the manual).
Looks like the policy org.blueman.policy is causing this. My wife usually cancels the popup.
Well, checked if rfkill is installed. Wasn't, installed it and no change. Also entering the root PW once did not change the behaviour.
Where do I start with troubleshooting? De-install blueman?
Thanks, rolfie
Probably, you have to remove* bluetooth crap as a whole... tlp + tlp gui would help though.
https://github.com/d4nj1/TLPUI
Just need tlp and to install tlpui, and you can have bluetooth disabled when you log in.
Takes a bit of setup, but you get the idea.
Meant to say remove not install, lol.
But yeah. tlp combined with tlp gui would also work as I mentioned.
#850 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xorg-server Xorg 21.1.0 - first release candidate since 1.20.0 » 2021-09-22 09:07:03
I needed some good news for a change. Thanks for catching that . . .
It's good to hear xorg is not going to die for a while, especially considering there are forks of it out there...
Sometimes, things will inevitably go from one repo to another, after all...
Besides, wayland seems dicey, especially if any of this is true:
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