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#1 2021-09-28 18:36:40

nobodyuknow
Member
Registered: 2017-09-10
Posts: 100  

When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

UEFI BIOS is a PITA with respect to booting Linux in external USB enclosures. Legacy BIOS is straightforward. When did Legacy BIOS cease to be offered in PC BIOS? Was it a set date or a technology milestone, for example, Intel Core X Generation? Did all motherboard vendors switch at the same time?

I'll start the discussion by supplying the only data point I can. In 2013, HP was still providing BIOS that offered Legacy, UEFI Hybrid, and UEFI Native, at least in its ProBook series.

Last edited by nobodyuknow (2021-09-28 23:50:37)

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#2 2021-09-28 21:36:13

macondo
Member
From: Central America
Registered: 2017-06-11
Posts: 52  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

I don't know, but I'm with you, IIRC it's a Microsoft deed.


Desktop Dual Core 8 GB RAM - Devuan Ceres - Slackware Current - Grub - JWM
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

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#3 2021-09-29 06:37:03

pcalvert
Member
Registered: 2017-05-15
Posts: 88  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

In the future, I am going to use Libreboot or coreboot as much as possible. If a computer or motherboard isn't compatible with either of those, I simply won't buy it.


“It is better to believe than to disbelieve; in doing so, it brings
everything into the realm of possibility.” — Albert Einstein

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#4 2021-09-29 08:35:39

Camtaf
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 132  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

macondo wrote:

I don't know, but I'm with you, IIRC it's a Microsoft deed.

That's pretty much my recollection too, & when that didn't stop us putting Linux on our machines, they introduced Secure Boot, but our community managed to beat that too, I'm very glad to say.

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#5 2021-09-29 09:11:28

PedroReina
Member
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 2019-01-13
Posts: 209  
Website

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

pcalvert wrote:

If a computer or motherboard isn't compatible with either of those, I simply won't buy it.

Agreed. But, how could us know if a motherboard is compatible or not? I dig in the technical specifications of some of them I cannot find if I can disable Secure Boot.

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#6 2021-09-30 00:09:27

zapper
Member
Registered: 2017-05-29
Posts: 382  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

pcalvert wrote:

In the future, I am going to use Libreboot or coreboot as much as possible. If a computer or motherboard isn't compatible with either of those, I simply won't buy it.

I would also say, theres only one exception I would make to that:

If it is more libre then either, such as MNT Reform or more so, then that should be an exception.

Anything else, I agree with you is utterly absurd.

smile


Hazardous boot is for sure a microsoft idea.  It is not secure in anyway shape or form.

Hence why I call it hazardous boot. ;P


Black Lives Matter!  I am white, but I prefer equality over hatred.
Haughtiness comes before a fall, pride before destruction.
Peace be with you!
No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon!

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#7 2021-09-30 10:24:57

pcalvert
Member
Registered: 2017-05-15
Posts: 88  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

PedroReina wrote:

Agreed. But, how could us know if a motherboard is compatible or not? I dig in the technical specifications of some of them I cannot find if I can disable Secure Boot.

Here's a start:

https://coreboot.org/status/board-status.html
https://www.mail-archive.com/coreboot@c … 38710.html

I wish I had some better suggestions for you, but I am just beginning to research this topic.


“It is better to believe than to disbelieve; in doing so, it brings
everything into the realm of possibility.” — Albert Einstein

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#8 2021-09-30 12:21:38

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,738  
Website

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

nobodyuknow wrote:

In 2013, HP was still providing BIOS that offered Legacy, UEFI Hybrid, and UEFI Native, at least in its ProBook series.

That machine does not have a "BIOS", it has UEFI firmware that is able to simulate BIOS-like functions to enable non-UEFI ("Legacy") booting.

It might make you feel better to pick "Legacy" over UEFI but the huge added attack surface conferred by the latter method still exists.


antifa ftw!

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#9 2021-09-30 15:17:52

alphalpha
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2018-01-23
Posts: 106  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

pcalvert wrote:

Here's a start:

https://coreboot.org/status/board-status.html
https://www.mail-archive.com/coreboot@c … 38710.html

I wish I had some better suggestions for you, but I am just beginning to research this topic.

there are some boards missing on the cooreboot website
for the complete list you need to clone the coreboot git and run 'make nconfig'

however if you want to go 100% libre, without blobs and intel me, you are stuck with LGA775 boards
and you can't have a graphics card because proprietary vbios, so that limits the list even further to those boards that have a vga port
and even then there might be some things that just wont work
i just built a machine last week, and i could only use 2 of the 4 ram banks or i would not get any video signal

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#10 2021-09-30 15:46:08

nobodyuknow
Member
Registered: 2017-09-10
Posts: 100  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

@Head_on_a_Stick

Interesting. So by implication, all BIOS offerings that offer Legacy and UEFI are actually UEFI?

My laptop also offers SecureBoot, but at least it warns that enabling it will cause the OS to not boot.

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#11 2021-09-30 17:09:18

PedroReina
Member
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 2019-01-13
Posts: 209  
Website

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

pcalvert wrote:

Here's a start:

Thanks for the links. I see it is a one by one machine trial and error (unless vendor implements itself). It remembers me 20 years ago, every potencial free software user checking the hardware compatibility before buying. Put the money where your mouth is.

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#12 2021-09-30 20:52:54

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 563  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

Bought an Acer Aspire 5 laptop in April this year. No more CSM present, thanks to the agreement of the major HW/SW suppliers.

To be able to disable SecureBoot you have to set a supervisor password.

Installed Chimaera on it, since then working fine.

rolfie

Last edited by rolfie (2021-09-30 20:53:44)

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#13 2021-09-30 23:27:35

ralph.ronnquist
Administrator
From: Clifton Hill, Victoria, AUS
Registered: 2016-11-30
Posts: 617  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

.. and then you can remove the "supervisor password" with the machine still having disabled SecureBoot ?

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#14 2021-10-01 19:48:48

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 563  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

.. and then you can remove the "supervisor password" with the machine still having disabled SecureBoot ?

Haven't tried that because the Supervisor PW disables any change of the BIOS settings. Since its a mobile unit I think PW protection makes sense.

And Chimaera is encrypted anyhow.

Maybe I give it a try while I am at home ....

rolfie

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#15 2021-10-04 03:36:05

macondo123
Member
From: Panama
Registered: 2017-09-23
Posts: 20  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

FWIW, just got a new box: it has an ASUS mobo, LEGACY, works fine with Linux and FreeBSD.

root@foo:/home/bobo # inxi -Fxz
System:    Kernel: FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p7 amd64 bits: 64 compiler: clang v: 10.0.1 Desktop: IceWM 2.5.0 
           OS: FreeBSD 12.2-RELEASE-p7 
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: PRIME H310M-R R2.0 v: Rev X.0x serial: <filter> UEFI: American Megatrends 
           v: 1605 rev: 5.12 date: 07/17/2020 
CPU:       Info: Quad Core model: Intel Core i3-9100 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Kaby Lake note: check rev: B cache: L2: N/A 
           features: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3 vmx 
           Speed: 3600 MHz min/max: N/A Core speed (MHz): N/A 
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel CoffeeLake-S GT2 [UHD Graphics 630] driver: vgapci bus-ID: 0:0:2.0 
           Display: server: X.Org 1.20.11 driver: loaded: vesa unloaded: modesetting resolution: 1920x1080 
           OpenGL: renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 10.0.1 256 bits) v: 4.5 Mesa 20.2.3 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Intel 200 Series PCH HD Audio driver: hdac bus-ID: 0:0:31.3 
           Sound Server-1: OSS v: 2009061500 running: yes 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet driver: re port: N/A bus-ID: 0:2:0.0 
           IF: re0 state: active speed: 1000baseT duplex: full-duplex mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 223.58 GiB used: 4.82 GiB (2.2%) 
           ID-1: /dev/ada0 vendor: Crucial model: CT120BX500SSD1 M6CR013 size: 111.79 GiB scheme: MBR 
           ID-2: /dev/ada1 vendor: Crucial model: CT120BX500SSD1 M6CR013 size: 111.79 GiB scheme: MBR 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 104.6 GiB used: 4.82 GiB (4.6%) fs: ufs dev: /dev/ada1s1a 
Swap:      ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 3.79 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) dev: /dev/ada1s1b 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 40.0 C mobo: 0 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Info:      Processes: 69 Uptime: 5m Memory: 7.84 GiB used: 1.12 GiB (14.3%) Init: init (BSD) Compilers: gcc: N/A clang: 10.0.1 
           Packages: 4 Shell: csh v: 6.21.00 inxi: 3.3.04

Last edited by macondo123 (2021-10-04 03:36:50)

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#16 2021-10-04 14:35:14

macondo123
Member
From: Panama
Registered: 2017-09-23
Posts: 20  

Re: When did Legacy BIOS cease to exist?

Here's Devuan, I got 2 ssd (devuan and slackware-current) on one and freebsd on the other, no problem booting any of the two with the ASUS mobo, I chdose Legacy. That's my heads up for the day.

bobo@foo:~$ inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: foo Kernel: 4.19.0-17-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 Desktop: IceWM 1.4.3.0~pre-20181030 
           Distro: Devuan GNU/Linux 3 (beowulf) 
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: PRIME H310M-R R2.0 v: Rev X.0x serial: <filter> 
           UEFI [Legacy]: American Megatrends v: 1605 date: 07/17/2020 
CPU:       Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i3-9100 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Kaby Lake rev: B L2 cache: 6144 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 28800 
           Speed: 800 MHz min/max: 800/4200 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 800 2: 800 3: 800 4: 800 
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel 8th Gen Core Processor Gaussian Mixture Model vendor: ASUSTeK driver: i915 v: kernel 
           bus ID: 00:02.0 
           Display: tty server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: i915 resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel UHD Graphics 630 (Coffeelake 3x8 GT2) v: 4.5 Mesa 18.3.6 direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: Intel 200 Series PCH HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1f.3 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-17-amd64 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: ASUSTeK driver: r8169 v: kernel port: e000 
           bus ID: 02:00.0 
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 223.58 GiB used: 5.58 GiB (2.5%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Crucial model: CT120BX500SSD1 size: 111.79 GiB temp: 42 C 
           ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Crucial model: CT120BX500SSD1 size: 111.79 GiB temp: 40 C 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 27.83 GiB used: 5.58 GiB (20.1%) fs: jfs dev: /dev/sda1 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8 C mobo: 27.8 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 0 
Info:      Processes: 118 Uptime: 4m Memory: 7.67 GiB used: 443.1 MiB (5.6%) Init: SysVinit runlevel: 2 Compilers: gcc: N/A 
           Shell: bash v: 5.0.3 inxi: 3.0.32

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