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#751 Re: Installation » How to have updated firefox-esr in Chimaera? » 2021-11-03 00:25:38
I currently use ceres on one of my laptops, but I also have a vm of devuan on that laptop so I can test before I upgrade. Just in case of issues...
As for snapd, some people say you can change the repository it pulls packages from, to one other than canonical's. That being said, its still in my mind, as bad as flatpak or nodejs' package manager and various other likewise separate installation methods.
Unless its built from source code of course, but in general I do not recommend nodejs, snapd, flatpak, appimage, pip or anything else besides compiling and regular installation.
Just a heads up, I DELIBERATELY listed those in order from worst to best.
Also, librewolf is an option for ceres. I believe? As far as I can see anyways.
#752 Re: DIY » Linux ports of OpenBSD's ksh » 2021-10-10 17:39:42
Version 7.0 of oksh is now available. So Linux has it before OpenBSD
That is ironic, but I wonder which has the more secure version... 
No offense, but OpenBSD devs probably are more security conscious...
#753 Re: Off-topic » It's a sad day . . . » 2021-10-10 17:37:19
GPU rendering in Blender require OpenCL drivers if you have AMD GPU, otherwise Blender won't see your card at all.
However with recent Cycles rewrite AMD will have completly different backend (HIP) and OpenCL was dropped. We (Blender users) still don't know what drivers we will need or what hardware will be supported, as HIP implementation isn't finished.
So blender doesn't work with open source drivers... well okay.
That's a shame, but meh, it is what it is eh, at least for now.
#754 Re: Off-topic » It's a sad day . . . » 2021-10-10 02:32:17
Open drivers don't have OpenCL support. And I need that.
Also I have installed only OpenCL parts of AMDGPU-PRO. Display is handled by mesa, and indeed it's great.
You have perked my curiosity, what do you need opencl for and/or the proprietary blob for? I am curious.
If you don't want or feel like telling me though, feel free to tell me.
It just sounds odd to me, given that those blobs are like mystery software.
#755 Re: Off-topic » It's a sad day . . . » 2021-10-08 23:24:21
Please take note of appropriately trimmed post.
Point taken...
Either way, I decided to respond in a different thread if that helps,
I am hopeful I was at least somewhat on topic.
#756 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-10-08 23:23:11
Minimalism isn't always pretentious, it depends on what you need and what you want from software whether it be a DE, WM, or what an OS is in general.
To be honest, if Devuan is more then a systemd protest distro, I guess I would've thought it would be fighting more the redhat nonsense...
Not trying to be critical, just sayin, systemd is not the only problem plaguing the linux atmosphere.
Aka, not just systemd, but also, at bare minimum, pulseaudio, networkmanager, wayland as well as systemd. The reason I don't use it as my main OS, is because of that and dbus as well as openssl and java. So meh... to each their own.
I should mention though, a dev I know looked at the dbus code even found in powerkit the application used with draco desktop, fingerprints your hardware...
I have no idea why that is even needed... or what they do with it. Aye...
Also, I don't care about DE's. WMs for the win man! 
I do still have a Devuan VM in case I need it though. I noticed that chimaera has security, updates and regular repos. I am guessing that means Devuan's newest version is coming out before the end of the year. Or sooner, not sure which.
But yeah, I would be careful about trusting Debian again till they stop feeding on Redhat's ideas so much.
#757 Re: Off-topic » It's a sad day . . . » 2021-10-08 23:07:45
Morning check of this forum and EVERY new post is off topic. Not quite sure what that says about Devuan . . .
Troll appreciation thread
Fight for the Plasma Desktop Cube
Palemoon drama, has gotten bad
Music
Show your desktop (rebooted)
Just to be clear, that was not my intention whatsoever...
Although, I didn't comment on the last two...
Although, the third one has been derailed a bit...
On further inspeection it seems I didn't comment on the 2nd one today either... lol.
#758 Re: Off-topic » Troll appreciation thread » 2021-10-08 12:48:53
I don't know, as long as trolls don't get cruel and evil, I enjoy feeding them sometimes...
If they like to be nonsensical or spamlike, I enjoy watching and laughing.
#759 Re: Off-topic » Fight for the Plasma Desktop Cube » 2021-10-08 12:46:02
If you use Plasma and find the Cube one of the most useful features and a major motivation for choosing it over other desktops, you will be shocked to learn KDE plan to abolish it at the next release (5.23.x).
Now, of course, that won't affect Devuan users immediately because the Plasma here is many versions back, so presumably will not be upgraded to 5.23 in the immediate future, but it may well bite when the next version of Devuan comes out. By then the cube will be long gone and any chance of persuading KDE to put it back will be long behind us.
I have opened a wishlist bug report at https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=443410 and a topic on the KDE forum at https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=172850 and would welcome support there.
KDE have invited those who care enough to rewrite the effect using QML, but I imagine that's not a trivial thing to do unless you know both QML and the internal workings of Plasma well.
Not that I care about DE's much, but at least the KDE folks, are willing to allow someone to make those changes, that gives me a small amount of respect for them, whether they are bloated or not, which I think they are.
That being said, I wonder if Gnome would be as willing to preserve features people like. I am not sure...
#760 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 15:34:29
Hevidevi, if it doesn't work, you can PM me, also, if you want FDE with or without /boot encrypted, ask me that in a PM.
Peace!
#761 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 15:19:13
zapper wrote:hevidevi wrote:dhcpcd-ui you mean?
Looks very much dbus free.
I tried installing hyperbola a few days ago but was stopped due to gpg / pacman key not found by the maintainer.
Yeah, you can bypass that actually, set SigLevel to never.
Its no big deal.
Did that, still failed. Im pretty sure the maintainers key is kaput. By that i mean that the key cannot be found on any key servers. When was the last time you had to refresh pacman keys?
They are working on 0.4 tirelessly lately, let me think for a second... I believe you need to comment the other SigLevel, as well.. then it will allow you to update.
comment this:
#SigLevel = Required DatabaseOptional
And have this non commented like so...
SigLevel = Never
If either is incorrect/missing make the changes.
#762 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 15:05:49
zapper wrote:hevidevi wrote:zapper can i ask what programs you use for network on hyperbola?
dhcpcd-gtk is one of them
dhcpcd + wpa_supplicant both of which seem to work without dbus in Hyperbola.
and yes, wifi with wpa2 and 2.4ghz as well as 5ghz works fine.
dhcpcd-ui you mean?
Looks very much dbus free.
I tried installing hyperbola a few days ago but was stopped due to gpg / pacman key not found by the maintainer.
Yeah, you can bypass that actually, set SigLevel to never.
Its no big deal.
#763 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 14:49:14
zapper can i ask what programs you use for network on hyperbola?
dhcpcd-gtk is one of them
dhcpcd + wpa_supplicant both of which seem to work without dbus in Hyperbola.
and yes, wifi with wpa2 and 2.4ghz as well as 5ghz works fine.
#764 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 14:42:20
Just use firefox-esr with a decent user.js to filter out all the crapware.
if you opt for no dbus configuration, dbus is not activated as andyprough mentions. The libs still need to be available but dbus is not activated so is not used in the usual way by init thus negating any security vuln in my opinion. If you know a thing or two about openbsd you will know that messagebus needs to be activated for dbus to work and firefox will run as long as the libs are satisfied.
Saying that, i dont care these days, nothing i do on a computer warrants spec-ops type privacy, im actually looking to quit computing altogether. I think it has run its course and is a doomed endeavor and blight on human interactivity.
Perhaps, but dbus will be removed from Hyperbola, at some point, thus, I see no purpose in such things.
As for computing, I don't think its completely doomed yet, unless you want newer technology, that is x86 based or arm64 based.
Actually, I will just say, anything with a backdoor like intel me or in general is a problem. Especially if it connects to the internet with that backdoor. If the backdoor is non-remote, meaning it doesn't do anything over the network, its not a huge issue as far as I am concerned.
That being said, MNT Reform gives me some hope. I await the pocket version, but yeah, 80% of hardware at least is crap due to backdoors that operate remotely and cannot be removed...
I had to add that part cause otherwise its more like 95% lol.
#765 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 14:18:47
zapper wrote:That being said, Hyperbola devs are in a bit of a pickle, because of palemoon devs going balisitic over some users not following their trademarks which resulted in a cascade of people removing their commits from uxp.
According to the "horse's mouth," your cascade of people is only 2. Where are you getting your information?
That's fair, to say, but yeah, one of the Hyperbola devs worked on UXP for a bit, but at one point, Tobin wanted nothing to do with him despite the fact that he only was trying to help make UXP better.
I would like to be wrong, but honestly, I trust Luke more in general, and long story short, they did hide their newest git development... they closed their github page. If you didn't notice, and the palemoon repo, here:
https://repo.palemoon.org/MoonchildProductions
Notice how UXP is no longer there...
They seem to be developing behind the scenes now, meaning less people can participate.
Also this is no longer worked on:
https://repo.palemoon.org/mcp-graveyard/UXP
at least there anyways...
Hmm... although this may prove your point:
https://github.com/RealityRipple/UXP
Unless Ripple is doing it without moonchild's permission...
Meh...
I am getting mixed messages so far it seems...
I did support UXP for a while, if you recall on here. To the point of arguing the same point you did which caused some threads to get locked xD.
Hmm.... I will have to think about this more...
Anywho, they still have been a toxic bunch, so I will wait and see what comes forward I guess.
#766 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 11:56:10
If only, mpv was the solution for all videos online... ;P
Alas, I like old cartoons, and some sites work with iceweasel-uxp, and not mpv.
Epiphany might actually work like iceweasel-uxp in this sense.
Either way though, we will just have to see...
It turns out though, there are some dbus issues with epiphany, but one of the devs of Hyperbola thinks it may be fixable aka, it could work without it if he gives it enough time to work on.
We'll see eh?
Maybe this is the palemoon alternative I need...
#767 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-07 00:45:26
zapper wrote:Long story short, I am not positive, but it may work as a replacement. I gotta check when they are updated though.
Personally, I am not a fan of epiphany, but, whatever.
Netsurf is written in C, did you know that? And it's GPL2 - did I mention that? And it has its own independent browser engine, did I mention that also? Someone who hates Rust and is worried about free licensing might want to look into it, just sayin...
EDIT: Oh my goodness, I'm running Netsurf, and my total system memory usage is 144mb. That's about a third of what the big bloaty browsers bring my system ram usage to. Where has this little gem been all my life?? It's got adblocking, it's not really fingerprint-able because javascript isn't fully implemented. It's a thing of beauty. It runs on RISC OS, on Haiku and BeOS. It has a framebuffer version that doesn't require GTK. What's not to love?
Some of us like to play videos online though...
Also, I am not sure if netsurf even is updated anymore.
Does netsurf work like that? I know there is adblocking in epiphany also.
#768 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-06 23:34:56
Latest librewolf and latest libreoffice running on Void without dbus.
The trick is to use the "ignorepkg" function, and after installing gtk3, remove the dbus dependencies that were installed along with it. librewolf and libreoffice need gtk3 to run, but they don't need dbus. gtk3 says it needs dbus, but there's no problem without it.
This should work on Hyperbola as well - I'll try it this week.
I was also able to install some other browsers once I had done this - surf, badwolf, epiphany, midori, netsurf, and vimb. Most of them are WebKit/GTK+ browsers. Netsurf is an independent browser with its own engine (and quite a nice one - GPL too).
Huh, its interesting you mention epiphany, because I tried it in devuan and sound works, also, I tried to build it in Hyperbola also, fascinating thing is...
It actually didn't build, but not because of any weird libraries, except for libportal, libdazzle and libhandy not being in the system as well as old libraries...
Long story short, I am not positive, but it may work as a replacement. I gotta check when they are updated though.
#769 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-06 03:57:32
zapper wrote:That being said, Hyperbola devs are in a bit of a pickle, because of palemoon devs going balisitic over some users not following their trademarks which resulted in a cascade of people removing their commits from uxp.
. . .
Sadly, that's become what this situation has been reduced to. Thank the palemoon devs for being a bunch of absolute morons.I was wrong about Palemoon devs being any good it begins to seem...
Requiring people to respect their trademarks, and the open source license, which is what I think you mean, and is the latest problem, does not make them morons. If people don't respect the open source license, then what's the point? I think those who don't respect the open source license or their trademarks are the morons who are causing all the problems.
Also, the reddit shithole is run by rabid anti-palemoon folks, so you're not going to get the facts there. As a matter of fact, they have posted outright lies. And your links to the Pale Moon threads actually prove my point. If you go there and try to post facts, you get banned. It's already happened.
The point I am trying to make is more than that, in retaliation to those same people, Tobin began to change his commits from the BSD license to who knows what...
Also, they are making it much harder not just for those people to fork, but EVERYONE!
So yeah, its more than that... hate to break it to ya, but is not outright lies, also, as I said, they doing the development on their own private repo now, and that hardly seems like its in the spirit of open source. Even if it's legal so long as they provide the source code, which they are doing now.
Even a dev friend of mine, who had nothing to do with those people who caused the problem, said they noticed some conflicts of interest take place after that where the commits they had slowly were removed and changed from their current license.
I should also add, yes I know the reddit shithole is full of alot of anti-palemoon folks. That was why I didn't give it much thought until after I saw the fate of forks thread and I waited to see what would happen.
Long story short, at best they are as bad as mozilla, at worst, much worse.
Also, I should add, their trademark doesn't do diddly to prevent every entity out in the world from doing harm. I really doubt there aren't safe havens where people can get away with stuff.
This all being said, I doubt you will care, you seem to have made up your mind.
This has become a crap fest of stupidity.
PS, I don't agree with mozilla's trademarks on rust or firefox either... aka, their trademarks and palemoon's trademarks are equally stupid.
Due to their restrictive nature.
That being said, I will change what I said, mozilla and palemoon are both bad. Maybe better than chrome builds, but that's not much better in light of the problems that have occurred aka, they are supposed to be the better option!
Maybe they still are, but barely...
#770 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-06 02:00:36
zapper wrote:Okay, but Hyperbola doesn't even have the libdbus or libdbus-glib. Thing is, I like many of their changes, the only issue is a web browser that is current and works.
My point being, I am kind of in a weird spot, I like most of what Hyperbola is, but the web browser issue is a problem.
If someone can make it possible, to remove those dependencies completely from a version of firefox-esr or w/e that would be awesome...
Well that's weird, cause I got Trisquel's Abrowser (Firefox-based) working on Hyperbola with no difficulty whatsoever. I didn't stop to look to see if there was anything named "dbus" or "libdbus" or what-not running. I guess I better re-install it and look at the Abrowser installation again. I deleted the partition so I could start over and install the Hyperbola 0.4 pre-release, but I'll go back to 0.3 and upgrade to the Testing repos and install Abrowser again and see what I get.
Which version are you on? 0.3.1? or 0.4...
I am curious... and also, did you remove all dbus packages on 0.4? Wondered... that will ultimately be what happens eventually I think?
#771 Re: Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-05 21:44:08
zapper wrote:I wish there was a firefox build that was libre that didn't require that dbus nonsense."
firefox-esr does not require dbus, only libdbus-1-3 and libdbus-glib-1-2
and unlike palemoon i dont even get an error message that i have to ignore
Okay, but Hyperbola doesn't even have the libdbus or libdbus-glib. Thing is, I like many of their changes, the only issue is a web browser that is current and works.
My point being, I am kind of in a weird spot, I like most of what Hyperbola is, but the web browser issue is a problem.
If someone can make it possible, to remove those dependencies completely from a version of firefox-esr or w/e that would be awesome...
Even if the build was somewhat outdated, every so often.
#772 Off-topic » Palemoon drama, has gotten bad, » 2021-10-05 04:25:00
- zapper
- Replies: 26
As suggested by Miyolinux, I am making a thread on this:
"Actually, Hyperbola devs don't trust adding rust for this reason:
https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/77234
Also, dbus is required anyhow to use it currently...
That being said, Hyperbola devs are in a bit of a pickle, because of palemoon devs going balisitic over some users not following their trademarks which resulted in a cascade of people removing their commits from uxp. So, unless that rust issue is fixed, or someone makes a build of firefox that doesn't require dbus to run, then alas, you will have to use a VM to do that stuff... ;(
Sadly, that's become what this situation has been reduced to. Thank the palemoon devs for being a bunch of absolute morons.
I was wrong about Palemoon devs being any good it begins to seem...
I feel like OpenBSD's devs might laugh at me if I told them how I feel now, about palemoon. meh... it is what it is.
At any rate, OpenBSD is becoming tempting as a backup until rust is made into a free licensed programming language... spoiler alert: its not right now!
I wish there was a firefox build that was libre that didn't require that dbus nonsense."
If you want more information here:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=27294
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=27372
https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comme … 20_public/
I should also add, you cannot download their addons on their websites without basilisk browser or palemoon...
Yikes... they want to become worse than firefox.
Also this too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/palemoon/comme … c_license/
Tobin supposedly began changing the licenses of his commits and in response, other devs removed their commits in retaliation to them.
Long story short... either someone else continues the fork, OR we just use firefox based browsers again.
But in my case, I don't want dbus, thus I need a way to use firefox without it. A dilemma indeed...
#773 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM KIT love fest » 2021-10-05 01:45:25
@zapper - I'm reading on the Hyperbola forum that the devs hate any rust-based web browsers, so if I put abrowser on Hyperbola that's bad.
But at the same time, if I use a rarely updated version of iceweasel-uxp (the version in Hyperbola stable's repo is 1.5 years old now) - that's really bad from a security standpoint.
What do most Hyperbola users do in terms of web browser? Do they stick with iceweasel-uxp, or use the newer version in the Hyperboa testing repo, or do they just give up and use a "bad" rust-based browser with frequent security updates?
Actually, Hyperbola devs don't trust adding rust for this reason:
https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/77234
Also, dbus is required anyhow to use it currently...
That being said, Hyperbola devs are in a bit of a pickle, because of palemoon devs going balisitic over some users not following their trademarks which resulted in a cascade of people removing their commits from uxp. So, unless that rust issue is fixed, or someone makes a build of firefox that doesn't require dbus to run, then alas, you will have to use a VM to do that stuff... ;(
Sadly, that's become what this situation has been reduced to. Thank the palemoon devs for being a bunch of absolute morons.
I was wrong about Palemoon devs being any good it begins to seem...
I feel like OpenBSD's devs might laugh at me if I told them how I feel now, about palemoon. meh... it is what it is.
At any rate, OpenBSD is becoming tempting as a backup until rust is made into a free licensed programming language... spoiler alert: its not right now!
I wish there was a firefox build that was libre that didn't require that dbus nonsense.
I'll give you something real quick though!
#774 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM KIT love fest » 2021-10-04 04:16:47
Hey zap, check out my setup today - Hyperbola (testing) with jwm, jwm kit, and I got the latest abrowser from Trisquel running.
I'll look for your email - I think they've been getting sent to the spam folder for some reason. I'll email you my phone number so you can text me.
Hmm, okay!
PS, I think I had better stop derailing threads...
So if I make even a small comment that seems derailed, don't respond on here...
Btw, on topic of this thread, jwmkit rules!
#775 Re: Devuan Derivatives » JWM KIT love fest » 2021-10-02 20:45:44
Appreciated, both of you! Yeah, I had a bunch of scripts open on my other OS.
80MB without all that extra stuff is probably possible. I can check if you'd like.
That being said, thank you, both of you, especially you JWMKit...
Also to Andy, I emailed you recently...
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