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Yes "politically charged". There's complying with sanctions and there's voicing your opinion, spewing nationalism and pushing your own agenda:
Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.
It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to "grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change anything.
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US thing.
If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by "news", I don't mean Russian state-sponsored spam.
As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too.
I'm not the only one: https://news.itsfoss.com/russian-linux- … opolitics/
No idea how those maintainers, who he has vocally supported kicking out, fit the category of "Russian aggression". For me it's a spectacular own goal, but as with anything else, this will likely get white washed and it will be business as usual.
We know why it was done, we know the sanctions are a political move and the "compliance reasons" were cited - the LF were just "complying", but then Torvalds weighs in with some "Finnish nationalism" and Greg KH's earlier "compliance reasons" seems rather empty, when Torvalds makes it clear he supports the action anyway. So he rounds on "Russian trolls" by throwing even more fuel on that particular fire.
This has caused some considerable contoversy already. They could have said "we have to comply with sanctions" and apologised to those affected. Instead there was an extreme lack of transparency, attempts to just bury it in a code commit, and then the following politically charged diatribe:
Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.
It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to "grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change anything.
And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US thing.
If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by "news", I don't mean Russian state-sponsored spam.
As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too.
The reality is that the Linux Foundation pushed this through, but it has not been managed with any sensitivity by Torvalds and Kroah-Hartman.
https://lwn.net/Articles/995186/
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/23/ … ulsion_of/
https://theins.ru/en/news/275585
Check the bug reports:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo … t=unstable
Maybe a relevant one among that bugfest: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=682369
Still seems open and unfixed...
This is a misrepresentation of the state of things. While it's true we have to fight with upstream w.r.t. what's related to systemd, without Debian we wouldn't even have a miniscule fraction of manpower to manage the huge package repository that we today inherit from Debian. The devs would be drowning in package maintenance, there would be no resources left for innovation.
Hence "new base", not "everything from scratch".
I'm not suggesting it, I'm predicting/forecasting that it will happen - because it's the logical next step and the last 14 or so years have already shown us the intentions and the roadmap. Debian is heading in a particular direction, which is going to be more and more incompatible with derivatives that choose to avoid systemd as time goes on. This is due to the goals and objectives of the Debian project, but also the mission of the systemd project and its developers. The systemd project engineers its software to force migration and adoption, by taking over core functionality previously provided by separate utilities and coercing/forcing developers to build in further dependencies or suffer inconvenience/extra workload/maintenance.
Developers on the corporate payroll, vs volunteers with limited time.
Essentially Linux and the major distributions are owned and controlled by those corporations you see listed on the Linux foundation website. It has already happened.
I remember all that, at the time. The plan was always to coerce and force systemd adoption. Many of us argued about this at the time, but were shouted down and categorised as "tin foil hat" wearers, by the noisy parrots who drank the Red Hat kewl aid..
If something is well designed and works well, there's no need to coerce or force, or weave it in as a dependency.
If something is badly designed, but they want to establish it as the de facto standard, then that's where you find the coercion and weaving in and forced dependencies. It's a corporate tactic - it's why many "need" MS Windows, or an MS account or a google account or social networking membership, etc. The bad, profit driven, things are always loaded with coercion, security theatre, scare mongering, marketing, etc - and sadly they fall for it over and over again.
UEFI is bad - you got it, because a consortium of US based Big Tech corporations made sure you got it, because it's in their interests (especially Microsoft's), not yours, theirs.
"Microsoft loves Linux" is akin to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_ … ight_Zone)
And now the chief architect of systemd works for that number one enemy of FOSS and Linux.
Eventually Devuan will need a new base. I would guess that it will need a new base Linux distribution much sooner than it will need a new kernel. Debian project is toxic, it takes Microsoft money and cannot be trusted as a base, or for anything else for that matter. It will serve it's own interests and corporate interests, such as those of Canonical or Microsoft for example.
https://techrights.org/n/2024/06/11/Deb … hat_.shtml
This "rot" goes right through to the Linux kernel itself: https://techrights.org/o/2023/06/20/mic … oundation/
Unless you're administering a server, service supervision, or lack of, isn't really a factor. So it's not really a con that sysvinit lacks this. If you are a sysadmin, service supervision might make your life easier, as part of your job role may be to keep flakey crap up and running.
We had a lot of this around 10 years ago:
"sysvinit lacks service supervision"
"you must be a server sysadmin (as per above)"
"no I'm just some random opinionated fanboi twat who read lots of Poettering's blogs - in 10 years from now I will be sneering at those who are reluctant to move to Wayland".
My FreeBSD servers run what they need to run using BSD init. systemd units have been less reliable and less untuitive and more difficult to manage.
This "migrate and upgrade" bollocks comes from the proprietary mindset, where every migration and upgrade is profit for Big Tech corporations.
I posted about firmware more than a few times and of the blobs misnomer and fallacious argument, at this site and elsewhere:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=30672#p30672
The bottom line is that loadable device firmware is a problem created by the hardware vendor - and the root of the problem is there and not in any Linux distribution or BSD OS' decision whether or not to include them / means of distributing them.
In simple terms there is firmware which is loaded on a device, flashed to it's EEPROM and there are those devices which don't have an EEPROM to start with, where the firmware is loaded onto the device (usually via some functionality of the Windows driver).
For the device to be usable under Linux or e.g. OpenBSD, a similar mechanism is needed (a "firmware loader") to load the firmware onto the device, in order to start the device and use it.
So the choice is not a choice of "blobs or no blobs", it boils down to a choice of hardware. i.e. don't buy it if you're that concerned.
If you already own the hardware which requires the loadable firmware... and want to use the device (rather than dispose of it), then you will have to install and load the firmware.
Many of your other devices, such as hard disk controllers, CPU, ethernet controllers, already have this proprietary firmware running regardless - as it's already flashed onto the device. So to be "blob free", you would have to remove this, assuming that were even possible in every case, as well and end up with bricked and useless hardware (but blob free at least). This is why, in my view, the "blobs" argument is a fallacious one, which addresses the wrong issue. The real issue is one of "open hardware". Yes you have a variety of FOSS operating system choices, but the primary target platform is one dominated and controlled by Microsoft and OEMs who are in a secret deal with them. The platform contains what I regards as malicious surveillance oriented firmware, such as the Intel Management Engine - an autonomous subsystem with out of band network access, which is always running even if the system is powered down, but still connected. This "blob" is the elephant in the living room - loadable device firmware is just a pointless distraction, or virtue signalling for those obsessed with Stallmanist compliance.
It's worth noting that the firmware image, is not a Linux or even a Windows binary - it's binary code designed to run on the device itself. Hence you can't execute these firmware images and if you had several hundred of them in /lib/firmware but own none of the relevant hardware - those files will sit there just taking up space and will never be executed.
$ ssh -G 2>&1 | grep -e illegal -e unknown > /dev/null && echo "System clean" || echo "System infected"
A very convoluted bit of hand holding just to see if a command supports a "-G" option... the presence of a G option in no way conclusively proves malware is present...
FreeBSD ("G" clearly visible in the usage string) :
% ssh -G
usage: ssh [-46AaCfGgKkMNnqsTtVvXxYy] [-B bind_interface] [-b bind_address]
[-c cipher_spec] [-D [bind_address:]port] [-E log_file]
[-e escape_char] [-F configfile] [-I pkcs11] [-i identity_file]
[-J destination] [-L address] [-l login_name] [-m mac_spec]
[-O ctl_cmd] [-o option] [-P tag] [-p port] [-R address]
[-S ctl_path] [-W host:port] [-w local_tun[:remote_tun]]
destination [command [argument ...]]
ssh [-Q query_option]
So this seems like it was a faulty test for malware, which should have instead focused on a check for a specific version.
% ssh -V
You have never understood my thinking or motivations so unsurprisingly hadn't a clue this time. Have you never heard the expression to "give someone enough rope to hang themselves"? You both have done that rather spectacularly! In fact I was planning to post this morning something like . . . "Have y'all embarrassed yourself enough yet? Is it time to put this thread out of its misery?" Mutual ego stroking was the solution which just perpetuates the delusion . . .
Oh so superior. Have you ever heard of "the mote and the beam?". Your arrogance prevents you from understanding my "thinking or motivations".
That's it. I will not argue further with a fanatic. Have fun in your little dictatorship, nurturing your sycophants... This is your life after all.
I must apologise for calling you a twat, though I disapprove of your conduct, that was quite uncalled for. Your apology is accepted, I never hold grudges.
Also my main gripe is not with you, but with the thoroughly biased administration of this site. Double standards and hypocrisy where "special" members can blaze a trail of offtopic babble, where certain other members have the admin on their case seemingly 24/7, their threads locked, posts deleted, get issued with bans, etc - just irks me somewhat. By the site admin's own admission: you get special treatment. This shows that they practice selectiveness and favouritism, which is no better than any other sites that they have criticed heavily in the past.
But as golinux has said, I actually contribute nothing here and actually have no right to complain about how the site is administered. I can accept that and it's why I am voting with my feet. I only returned to reply to the tgread you made directly targetted at me Also note - it has not been closed. Consider that if I had made this thread, the admin would have intervened to get the last word and closed by now.
@andyprough: You don't appear to have even the vaguest idea what this is about.
Great that you made this thread!
And you can, as apparently you have a special licence for this, as proclaimed by the admins here... and this is now even more apparent to the observer. You're more than just a twat, you're one of the numerous minor embarasssments to this project - thought rest assured your free reign will continue.
Anyone else posting such quality of content would have been quickly censured, but by golinux' own admission you may freely troll this site, due to the significance of your contributions to whatever it is you contribute to... so go ahead my man, knock yourself out. Let's see what you're all about...
This site simply serves as a platform for pushing the admin's ideology - "views". That's what they mostly contribute here. Devuan project is just the vehicle. It's supposed to "about Devuan" but there those views are, over and over again... if you don't belive me, please search and you will find their ideological postings scattered throughout.
Those who don't share the ideology are treated as deluded lesser life forms. I can see right through the thin veneer of condescension and superiority. There is certainly an affinity with nazis, as like those who support extermination of populations depopulation or steralisation in order to "improve" the situation for a chosen select few, they're a vocal proponent of depopulation, as with many people like Bill Gates.
@headstick, wanted to tell you earlier - you traded "donald" for something worse in coming here, so good luck with that...
I no longer care - have fun.
@Ralph, no hard feelings, but you feed the monster hoping it eats you last. Please delete my account. I have no reason to come back.
Thank you for so clearly revealing the bias for all to see.
Ralph yes I'll strive for the three Ps, while your lunatic fringe, right wing crony gets free reign ...
Please stop this nonsense, it has totally derailed this topic.
/me is getting an itchy delete finger . . .
Perhaps get shut of this "MiyoLinux" twat once and for all instead of tolerating right wing nutters and cleaning up after them...?
Others got short sharp shrift, but this one seems to have free reign here...
Yes, it is outrageous how much work and effort those companies go to in respect of the Linux ecosystem. Bastards, the lot of them
And all of that effort is focused on their own business agenda. Which may or may not be in line with a users best interests... usually it isn't.
Their motives certainly aren't altruistic.
I read the link and came to the same conclusions as steve_v. It's a "damage control" piece from a typical mouth piece of the Red Hat/freedesktop.org/gnome project, etc camp. systemd project is well noted for producing such pieces of work over the years - blame shifting, offsetting, setting up strawman attackers of systemd and then going to great lengths to denounce them. Whether it's systemd's fault or not, it's typical systemd strategy. But you should consider why systemd project always feel the need to write these patronising "it's not our fault" pieces.
Unattended upgrades: What could possibly go wrong? (ask Microsoft)
"knee develop" semi working devuan
no, its devuan piece of glitch bull shit
nobody knows?
I would guess that nobody knows/cares.
you read thouse solution with attention? old driver patched for new kernels!
Yes the patch is for the nvidia installer, not the kernel - my mistake. I only know about this as I vaguely recall trying to install it a year or two ago without much success. I probably tried about has hard as you did, but refrained from starting a whiny thread on the subject.
If you know all about it, I have to wonder why you have started this thread...?
Rather than blaming the distribution, you should instead come to the realisation that no one on this site owes you a thing. If you have a problem with end of support hardware and a proprietary driver, that's entirely your own problem...
340.108 driver
You won't get that version to run with a 5.5 or newer kernel without a kernel patch and recompile of the kernel. I believe the release you are running is based on the 5.10 kernel.
Try searching the web for "Linux 5.10 nvidia 340.108"
Would it not be better to build a .deb package?
Unless you're planning to distribute it, and/or are maintaining your own repository and serving the kernel as updates to multiple systems which you administer, there's actually little point to packaging every kernel rebuild as a deb.
If you're maintaining your own kernel for personal use - i.e. doing a git pull, rebuilding and installing, etc, it's far more expedient to just use make.
I'm not sure it works quite like that, though this add on is new to me and I find myself rather skeptical ...
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/adnauseam/
AdNauseam not only blocks ads, it obfuscates browsing data to resist tracking by the online ad industry. To throw ad networks off your trail AdNauseam “clicks” blocked and hidden ads, polluting your data profile and injecting noise into the economic system that drives online surveillance.
By blocking the ads in the first place, it conserves a lot of CPU and thus power. Then sending back the response to the host is only a tiny bit of data. However, I do question it's worth. Blocking ads is part of the battle, preventing fingerprinting and blocking trackers is another part. Not sure where this fits in.
Stallmans approach of treating un-updatable firmware as hardware was a fudge in my opinion but necessary for the time, though I suspect ultimately detrimental it was better than the situation have now where firmware is closed and upgradable. Further locking down hardware.
Stallman's stance on firmware at the time, was based on there not really being a lot of this kind of firmware in circulation and as a "boycott" of hardware vendors who develop proprietary firmware. Nowadays, that boycott makes very little sense, as this kind of firmware has increased more than tenfold and much of it is proprietary. The "elephant in the living room"of firmware, is within the CPU itself - so anyone with any concerns about any firmware doing anything nefarious should start looking there. With that running on most CPU's, worrying about other firmware is largely pointless.
I saw the Linux Kernel removed scrolling from the console recently. Just as I'm gearing up for life in a console because the desktop is becoming so locked down with corporate systems. I foresee the value of older computers increasing as new hardware becomes more and more enslaved.
You mean these?
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=50145474f6ef4a9c19205b173da6264a644c7489
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=973c096f6a85e5b5f2a295126ba6928d9a6afd45
It's been over two years. The code was not being maintained (so he says).
You may be better off looking into using something like tmux or screen.
I'm not sure there's any sense discussing licensing. I'm also not going to discuss OpenBSD much, let alone defend it. Kelsoo quotes gnu.org and has clearly made up his mind already.
Non free firmware is a minor concern in running any BSD. The major issue is it's funded and driven by proprietary loving companies and so shackled to their needs and desires. No-one but the most deluded libertarian fuckwit would think this is an advancement in peoples liberty.
When it comes to funding - it's clear that Linux has been a massive commercial effort, developed and funded by a consortium of "Big Tech", including Microsoft, IBM, Red Hat and google, to name just a few, for many years now. That's an indisputable fact. I actually don't think that makes the Linux kernel any "worse" in terms of functionality however (we are all hypocrites, all reaping the rewards and it runs on the hardware we want it to run on). Corporate influence, funding and developers on the corporate payroll is now intrinsically woven into Linux eco system.
Most of OpenBSD's funding however comes from it's development of OpenSSH, rather than the OS itself - though it could be argued that OpenSSH is permissive licensed for the very reasons you've stated above. I vaguely recall a quote from Theo de Raadt actually criticizing the corporations using OpenSSH for their own profit and contributing nothing back. You could quite rightfully say "well, duh...". I think corporations taking permissive licensed code for profit and contributing nothing back is a very valid concern - I also think corporations buying off and hijacking GPL licenced projects to the extent that they effectively run the show and then steer development to suit their commercial interests is equally valid.
systemd exists to suit commercial interests for example... Linux distributions and other projects were steered towards and then railroaded into systemd, due to the sheer inertia of corporate reps within multiple free software projects. Without corporate control, something like systemd would never have happened.
I actually believe that de Raadt truly subscribes to the permissive licensing philosophy (rather than being some corporate stooge/sell out as you seem to suggest) in the same way that someone like Stallman believes in the copyleft licenses. In my opinion neither camp are ready to accept that with enough money and power and buying off the right people - both licenses become almost irrelevant. The "freeness" of a project, really depends on the project leaders and developers working on it. If they can resist the "man from Microsoft/google" and his big bag of money, the project remains "free", if they can't, then you have yet another "open source" project.
Around 85% of code contributions to the Linux kernel come from those in the corporate employ. For example, you have working video hardware nowadays, due to AMD and Intel engineers who are paid to develop Linux drivers for their hardware (the 'BSDs also port this code, but it's primarily developed for Linux). With a project like OpenBSD, the overwhelming majority of the contributions to it's kernel would come from volunteers - and it's a tiny project by comparison.
The kernel code contributed by AMD and Intel to the Linux kernel is not GPL'd, but released under a permissive license similar to the MIT license. But a big part of that effort comes in the form of proprietary, but redistributable, binary only firmware, which is loaded onto and runs on the device itself (as headstick has already explained). The driver is free - the firmware needed for the driver and hardware is not - thus it's not actually "free" at all - it's all about manipulation and careful selection of "free" licences to meet a commercial end.
x86, also the main focus of Red Hat, SUSE and Canonical, is strongly tied to Microsoft - who have long standing secret deals with the hardware manufacturers (OEMs) to ensure Microsoft Windows exclusivity on consumer PCs. Red Hat, SUSE and Canonical are all "Microsoft partners" - who work in a "cartel" with Microsoft and ensure that Microsoft's ownership and total control of the consumer PC market is never challenged.
It might be...
And if anybody here is also a member over at forums.debian.net please point sunrat to https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … bug=996503 in respect of the pictured thread. TIA.
I had something similar a few days ago, I had assumed it was a plasma issue at first, (I use plasma at work only - in fact I only use Linux at work) and after deleting the mess of configs, ~/.cache , ~/.kde5 - and then when that didn't work, doing it all again and then rebooting eventually "solved" it.
Not the first time I've had such issues. Plasma 5 just seems overly complex and unwieldy.
My old login is still working, and even though I'm too cool to post there and sunrat is openly hostile to me, I'm willing to do you this one favor in the spirit of Saint Nicholas. What should I tell sunrat? That wayland is dead, long live Xorg? That Lennart has gone over to the dark side and that all Debian users must immediately abandon ship? That he needs to switch to gdm if he ever wants to see his precious bloated plasma desktop again? All of the above?
Fleeing tyranny as well eh? Wait until your account over there gets sadistically deleted by the resident tyrant. He likes to utilise his shiny new plaything to the full...