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#1 2022-04-03 08:33:32

bai4Iej2need
Member
From: Ortenau
Registered: 2021-04-25
Posts: 45  

Scrolling Output in the Console Window

Since some time I miss the function of page-up and page-down in the console. I do not recall when this was gone. If you want to see some output, which has passed the uppermost line in the console window, this output is lost. If you are lucky, you can repeat the event and pipe the output into less, then you can navigate in the output.

I happened to put an old 486 Desktop in service again last week, which was bought in 1998 and had not been in operation since Nov 2007 or so. Luckily it worked and it showed a SuSE7.0 install with kernel 2.2.16 installed and a fvwm95 desktop. that makes ~ 40 tasks !
And there I could scroll the console window up and down, I remember with Shift-Page-Up/-Down, as much as the size of the console memory permits.
How can i get this scrolling function in the devuan console again, as i do all administrative tasks in the console ?

happens not in x-terminals
depends not on zsh or bash (echo $SHELL)

This concerns
1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty --noclear 38400 tty1
2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2
3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3
4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4
5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5
6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6

after a login

@admins : you may shift this to a more appropriate theme

Last edited by bai4Iej2need (2022-04-03 12:59:44)


The devil you know is better than the angel you don't know. by a British Citizen, I don't know too good.
One generation abandons the enterprises of another like stranded vessels. By Henry David Thoreau, WALDEN, Economy. Line 236 (Gutenberg text Version)

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#2 2022-04-03 09:28:28

rolfie
Member
Registered: 2017-11-25
Posts: 759  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

Well, there is no generic Devuan console. I guess you are talking about the terminals you can open on the graphical DE. There may of them, Gnome Terminal, Mate Terminal, xterm ....

Why don't you tell us a bit about the environment you are working on?

rolfie

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#3 2022-04-03 10:00:15

bai4Iej2need
Member
From: Ortenau
Registered: 2021-04-25
Posts: 45  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

rolfie wrote:

Well, there is no generic Devuan console. I guess you are talking about the terminals you can open on the graphical DE. There may of them, Gnome Terminal, Mate Terminal, xterm ....

Why don't you tell us a bit about the environment you are working on?

rolfie

see above

There is a server (beowulf) which does not even have an xserver.
Edit:
uname -a     
Linux "$HOST" 4.19.0-20-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.235-1 (2022-03-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux
used mostly through ssh , where the problem does not exist.

I have Laptops with chimaera, but also here I do admin tasks in the console.
Edit : And here the problem comes up.
uname -a
Linux "$HOST" 5.10.0-12-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.103-1 (2022-03-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux

Last edited by bai4Iej2need (2022-04-03 12:44:25)


The devil you know is better than the angel you don't know. by a British Citizen, I don't know too good.
One generation abandons the enterprises of another like stranded vessels. By Henry David Thoreau, WALDEN, Economy. Line 236 (Gutenberg text Version)

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#4 2022-04-03 10:21:20

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 3,097  
Website

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= … Scrollback

Perhaps use tmux or screen instead?


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII, 18.

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#5 2022-04-03 11:11:10

alexkemp
Member
Registered: 2018-05-14
Posts: 89  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

Shift-PageUp / Shift-PageDown works for me.

$ cat /etc/devuan_version
chimaera
$ cat ~/.bash_history

(then Shift-PageUp, etc.)

Help | About: xfce4-terminal 0.8.10

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#6 2022-04-03 11:30:45

Marjorie
Member
From: Teignmouth, UK
Registered: 2019-06-09
Posts: 186  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

Shift-PageUp / Shift-PageDown also works in gnome terminal (Cinnamon - Chimaera).

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#7 2022-04-03 12:10:33

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 3,097  
Website

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

^ & ^^ the OP has mentioned twice now that they are not asking about terminal emulators in the graphical desktop but rather the console screen, also known as the TTY.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII, 18.

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#8 2022-04-03 12:23:23

hunter0one
Member
Registered: 2021-12-31
Posts: 23  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

He's talking about the TTY not a terminal emulator. I also have this issue regardless of the Linux distro, even shift + pageup/pagedown does not work. Interestingly, FreeBSD's tty scroll works just fine.

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#9 2022-04-03 12:42:52

bai4Iej2need
Member
From: Ortenau
Registered: 2021-04-25
Posts: 45  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

I tested tmux and screen on the DUT console.
They do not bring this functionality with them.

so Linus Tv is wrong, that nobody uses this functionality.
Anyone, who must access bare HW through  the keyboard without intervening ssh tunnels etc, falls back to the functionality.
This haṕpens mostly during the first manual install.
And it is annoying, if the function is there in all other forms of graphic terminals, shells and tunnels, but not during a direct access.

Who tells LTV ?

Last edited by bai4Iej2need (2022-04-03 12:56:29)


The devil you know is better than the angel you don't know. by a British Citizen, I don't know too good.
One generation abandons the enterprises of another like stranded vessels. By Henry David Thoreau, WALDEN, Economy. Line 236 (Gutenberg text Version)

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#10 2022-04-03 13:10:11

bai4Iej2need
Member
From: Ortenau
Registered: 2021-04-25
Posts: 45  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

and I made another test :
ssh'ed from the console of the kernel 5.10 laptop to the server with Kernel 4.19
and the scrolling function is gone.

As I tend to work on the lowest level necessary this is really a PITA.


The devil you know is better than the angel you don't know. by a British Citizen, I don't know too good.
One generation abandons the enterprises of another like stranded vessels. By Henry David Thoreau, WALDEN, Economy. Line 236 (Gutenberg text Version)

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#11 2022-04-03 13:18:00

hevidevi
Member
Registered: 2021-09-17
Posts: 230  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

command | less

or

command | more

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#12 2022-04-03 15:05:53

yeti
Member
From: I'm not here: U R halucinating
Registered: 2017-02-23
Posts: 262  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

bai4Iej2need wrote:

I tested tmux and screen on the DUT console.
They do not bring this functionality with them.

Try harder.

Screen gives me a scrollback in "real texmode" and GUIy terminals.  Just not with PgUP.  Use doping: Read a bit more about it.  Look for ^A ESC or ^A [.
Tmux probably does it in a very similar way.

Last edited by yeti (2022-04-03 15:06:41)


<𝚋𝚘𝚍𝚢 𝚘𝚗𝚕𝚘𝚊𝚍='𝚍𝚘𝚌𝚞𝚖𝚎𝚗𝚝.𝚋𝚘𝚍𝚢.𝚒𝚗𝚗𝚎𝚛𝙷𝚃𝙼𝙻="𝙳𝚒𝚜𝚊𝚋𝚕𝚎 𝙹𝚂!";'>
𝔓𝔩𝔢𝔞𝔰𝔢 𝔩𝔢𝔞𝔳𝔢 𝔶𝔬𝔲𝔯 𝔣𝔞𝔲𝔩𝔱𝔰 𝔦𝔫 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔰𝔢𝔠𝔱𝔦𝔬𝔫 𝔟𝔢𝔩𝔬𝔴 𝔞𝔫𝔡 𝔡𝔬𝔫'𝔱 𝔣𝔬𝔯𝔤𝔢𝔱 𝔱𝔬 𝔲𝔫𝔰𝔲𝔟𝔰𝔠𝔯𝔦𝔟𝔢!

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#13 2022-04-03 16:22:11

chris2be8
Member
Registered: 2018-08-11
Posts: 175  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

I've just pressed ctrl-alt-f2, logged on, typed ls to get a few screenfuls of ouput and shift-page_up and shift-page_down work. But if I press ctrl-alt-f7 to get back to the GUI, then ctrl-alt-f2 the scroll buffer is cleared.

This is on ascii (I run CUDA on an old GPU and dare not update it because Nvidia have probably removed support for the GPU from current releases of their drivers and runtime).

Chris

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#14 2022-04-03 19:30:00

bai4Iej2need
Member
From: Ortenau
Registered: 2021-04-25
Posts: 45  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/s … ost1207037

Not everybody is happy with dropping this code, when LTv makes a ... decision

AND : /usr/bin/less is not available in runlevel 1 !


The devil you know is better than the angel you don't know. by a British Citizen, I don't know too good.
One generation abandons the enterprises of another like stranded vessels. By Henry David Thoreau, WALDEN, Economy. Line 236 (Gutenberg text Version)

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#15 2022-04-03 21:05:32

bai4Iej2need
Member
From: Ortenau
Registered: 2021-04-25
Posts: 45  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

tested now with kernel linux-image-4.19.0-20 from beowulf, but the function is the same missing.

vgacon.c patch has been backported to 4.19. to remove the code.

Last edited by bai4Iej2need (2022-04-04 16:33:19)


The devil you know is better than the angel you don't know. by a British Citizen, I don't know too good.
One generation abandons the enterprises of another like stranded vessels. By Henry David Thoreau, WALDEN, Economy. Line 236 (Gutenberg text Version)

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#16 2023-01-24 15:47:12

bai4Iej2need
Member
From: Ortenau
Registered: 2021-04-25
Posts: 45  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

My headless X-less server sent me a mail this morning, it had a new kernel from unattended upgrades in the last night.
Told me I should restart. Which I did. Which failed.
I had to move the server to a place with kbd mouse and monitor. Fixed it. Scrolled up and down on the local console and it works again.
Explanation : The unattended upgrade was not the cause of the failure. This would have happened on any restart. It was an error in one of my scripts. (file not found)

new is 5.10.0-21-amd64

Wonder still happen.

Server is now back in place.

Last edited by bai4Iej2need (2023-01-24 18:14:12)


The devil you know is better than the angel you don't know. by a British Citizen, I don't know too good.
One generation abandons the enterprises of another like stranded vessels. By Henry David Thoreau, WALDEN, Economy. Line 236 (Gutenberg text Version)

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#17 2023-01-24 16:00:12

blackhole
Member
Registered: 2020-03-16
Posts: 87  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

Unattended upgrades: What could possibly go wrong?  (ask Microsoft)

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#18 2023-01-24 20:33:23

steve_v
Member
Registered: 2018-01-11
Posts: 202  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

blackhole wrote:

What could possibly go wrong?

IME, very little. unattended-upgrades has been available (as opposed to mandatory, ala microsoft) in debian and derivatives for as long as I can remember, and I have several machines that have been running it for well over a decade without any drama (with one notable recent exception, but that was a "devuan shipped nonfunctional configs", not "unattended-upgrades ate my lunch").

I probably wouldn't bother with it on a desktop pc, but for headless boxes, especially if you have many headless boxes you can't be arsed updating manually one at a time (or remembering they exist for that matter), it's pretty dang handy.

bai4Iej2need wrote:

Scrolled up and down on the local console and it works again.

Wait, what? Are you telling me that this stupid "nobody uses TTYs any more" regression has actually been fixed?

Last edited by steve_v (2023-01-24 20:39:23)


Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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#19 2023-01-24 20:36:45

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 3,097  
Website

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

steve_v wrote:

unattended-upgrades has been available (as opposed to mandatory, ala microsoft) in debian

It's been enabled by default since stretch, at least for the GNOME desktop.

I've been using it for about five years on both the family laptops (running stable ofc) with no problems at all. It's really nice, I don't have to touch those machines at all, which is the ideal for me.

EDIT: the only caveat would be if the kernel was upgraded and then a device needing a new module to be loaded was plugged in, which would then fail. I've never actually encountered that though.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2023-01-24 20:39:15)


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII, 18.

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#20 2023-01-24 20:43:38

steve_v
Member
Registered: 2018-01-11
Posts: 202  

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

It's been enabled by default since stretch, at least for the GNOME desktop.

I was unaware that it's enabled by default now, but then I would be, because "expert" mode netinstalls with --no-recommends, and, well, GNOME *shudder*.


Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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#21 2023-01-27 06:41:08

Head_on_a_Stick
Member
From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 3,097  
Website

Re: Scrolling Output in the Console Window

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

I've been using it for about five years on both the family laptops (running stable ofc) with no problems at all.

^ This is a lie. I've just remembered https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo … ug=1022042 — I had to boot up an Arch live ISO image, mount the root partition, arch-chroot in, downgrade the kernel and hold it to that version for a few days until the fixed kernel was pushed. A simple fix but the system was effectively un-bootable without intervention. So that's one breakage in five years. Not bad, I suppose, but not perfect either.


“Et ignotas animum dimittit in artes.” — Ovid, Metamorphoses, VIII, 18.

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