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#26 Re: Installation » Some Concerning Bugs » 2026-01-02 12:48:52

switching2Devuan wrote:

arrogant and self-centered assumption

OP has 3 topics at this point, all whinging, and all full of the above.
Apparently any configuration choice (so far: root filesystem, partition layout, network configuration tools, boot media, DNS server / protocol, terminal emulator) that doesn't perfectly align with their preferences is some sort of "showstopper" disaster and/or conspiracy. roll

onedevone wrote:

What is expected
...
What is expected
...
What is expected

Is for you to:
a) Grow up, and realise that this is not Arch, it's a stable, general purpose distribution under no obligation whatsoever to embrace the newest shiny thing or cater to your peculiar tastes.
b) Post your commands and any "bunch of cryotic[sic] errors" encountered, verbatim and without shouting. Assuming you actually want assistance that is.

onedevone wrote:

This is the bug report for Devuan 6 Excalibur installer

No, this is a bunch of whining and factually incorrect nonsense. Bug reports are submitted with reportbug or by email.

#27 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Fail With DOT » 2026-01-02 05:48:01

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

What is DOT ?

DNS over TLS, AKA a somewhat less retarded attempt to break the 'net than DoH, from the usual paranoia crowd who think moving trust from their ISP to some other random entity (usually Google or Cloudflare) is progress.

onedevone wrote:

you wouldn't allow plain text DNS querries, would you?

DNS is handled on my router, because I have a brain.

onedevone wrote:

I don't understand this behavior of nm

Then you should probably ask RedHat, Devuan didn't write NetworkMangler.

onedevone wrote:

I looked for "stubby-openrc" but cannot find it.

What makes you think someone else should write your init scripts for you?
The stubby package comes with a sysvinit script, because that's the default init. OpenRC is supported, but you don't get everything handed to you on a silver platter.
If you want an openrc init script, swiping it from Artix will probably work without too much modification. Otherwise, writing your own isn't complicated.

onedevone wrote:

THIS IS A COMPLETE SHOWSTOPPER FOR ME.

Huh, what a coincidence. Shouting is a complete showstopper for me providing any kind of spoon feeding step-by-step instructions.

onedevone wrote:

Your help is going to be immensly appreciated.

With the entitled and confrontational attitude you've displayed in all your posts so far, I'll be surprised if you get much of that.

#28 Re: Installation » Some Concerning Bugs » 2026-01-01 15:58:15

Can you expand on why the installer doesn't work with Ventoy

Specifically, no. I never cared enough to look into it. More generally:
There are about 50 different ways to build a bootable hybrid image, and most of them rely on the initramfs being able to find and loop-mount the image somehow.
That mechanism (and what kind of device and/or filesystem is searched) varies widely from one distro to another. They are looking for their image in their format on their filesystem... Not whatever "USB Maker 3000" decided to do.
Ventoty has a bunch of special-casing hacks to make this work, just not for Devuan.

The image boots fine from a raw device as intended, so this is a Ventoy problem for Ventoy to fix... If anyone actually cares that is.
Multi-boot USB drives are a hack, they've always been a hack, and it's not really on iso builders to pander to them.

is that best suited for a separate topic

Sure, but you'll need better bait to nerd-snipe me on that one. Bootloaders and initramfs scripts are tedious to test at the best of times, and 'need install media (once every 5 years at best)' x 'too lazy to fish out an old  $2 4GiB USB' = 'nanoscopic fleck of motivation'.

#29 Re: Installation » Some Concerning Bugs » 2026-01-01 14:59:05

This particular nonsense is wrong on every level:
exFAT errors have nothing to do with the installer.
The installer doesn't use exFAT.
Even if it did, the Linux implementation is GPL, not proprietary or closed-source.
The exFAT spec and related patents were released in 2019, so it's not secret and not strictly owned by Microsoft (any more).
The Devuan installer doesn't depend on any "reverse-engineered propriatary [sic] garbage", poor or otherwise.
Even if we broaden "installer" to include the kernel, any included drivers are either clean GPL implementations or third-party binary-blobs, neither are "reverse engineered" from proprietary code.
And for bonus points: Devuan is not "incapable of booting from ext4", ext4 is in fact the default filesystem.

That said, it still isn't a very good example of fractal wrongness, but that's a term I don't get to use very often, so... tongue

---

To return to the (well disguised as an unhinged rambling rant) original questions:

The installer does not currently support f2fs, largely because it's an uncommon choice outside of mobile phones and SD cards, so nobody cares enough to implement it. It is also still considered experimental by many distros, upstream Debian included.
If you want f2fs root, you do you. There are guides on the 'net, but I'd expect an Arch/Artix user (BTW) to already be quite familiar with manual installation.

The default swap partition size is just that, a default. If you don't like it, change it.

If you don't know your own wireless SSID and finding out is "impossible", I really don't know what to say.

If you don't like the terminal emulators provided with the kde-desktop task, change them. Or install only the stuff you want on the base system rather than using tasksel from the installer.

The installer is not compatible with Ventoy (or more to the point, Ventoy hasn't implemented support for it among all its other distro-specific hacks), this is why Ventoy is conspicuously not listed under the instructions for making install media.

Bonus snark:

You asked about current stable version codname. I assumed it was 'Excalibur'.

Oh come on, "Excalibur" is not a species of cod, now is it? Pelagic cod, Atlantic cod, Rock cod, Excalibur cod? I think not.

#30 Re: Installation » Some Concerning Bugs » 2026-01-01 12:30:39

Nobody is using it anymore. It's an ancient history.

Bullshit.

The only viable option for nand-flash storage is f2fs.

Complete and utter bullshit.

Do you know your SSID by heart?

Yes.

The installer cannot be booted when put on ext4 filesystem.

The installation image is ISO-hybrid, you're supposed to write it directly to a block device.

ExFAT... I assume installer is dependent on propriatary, closed source, secret code filesystem by Microsoft.

There's wrong, and then there's fractally wrong.

I assume

You are mistaken. Follow the instructions and write the .iso to an unformatted raw block device or optical media with dd or wodim.

If you insist on doing your own thing WRT install media and filesystems, because "other distros, blah, blah", that's up to you... And you get to keep all the pieces when it inevitably doesn't work.

#31 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] tmp files now stored in a tempfs? Excalibur/Trixie » 2025-12-31 23:47:41

"defaults" ought to start with the lowest common denominator

s/lowest/most/g

it ought to work perfectly on older hardware

It does, <50MiB of memory is trivial on any readily available consumer hardware outside of embedded platforms - and if you're deploying on those you're going to be pulling more tricks than this.

Users with better hardware are then free to bolster their system with various speed tweaks if needed.

Users with antique hardware are free to bolster their system with various memory-conserving tweaks if needed.

Wasting memory is just that, but trading memory for speed is a more subtle question and more often than not it's a net positive. Something that is a net positive for the majority of use cases (4GB RAM or 32bit haven't been that for a decade) is a good candidate for default configuration.

This is moot WRT Devuan in any case, because the defaults haven't changed since they inherited the init scripts from Debian.

#32 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] tmp files now stored in a tempfs? Excalibur/Trixie » 2025-12-31 18:19:57

They're both solid-state, there won't be a noticeable difference.

Main memory latency is measured in nanoseconds, while even the fastest NVME SSDs are in the tens of microseconds. On older storage technology the gap is considerably larger.
An order of magnitude is "not noticeable"? That must be why Solaris started putting /tmp in RAM around 1994.

there's lots of people running old hardware with low ram that need the extra. Not everybody has 32-64 gigs of ram

We're talking about Debian turning this on by default, not forcing you to use it. The vast majority of Debian (and GNU/Linux in general) deployments are servers, where 32GB is generally considered low-end. Setting the default to suit that use case while having minimal impact** on everyone else is perfectly reasonable.

Most mobile phones have more than 4GB of RAM these days, if you want to use antique hardware, that's cool... But expecting defaults in a general purpose distro to be tailored for that is ridiculous.

**
Devuan server, manual max size set, 38MB used:

tmpfs            2.0G   38M  2.0G   2% /tmp

Oh noes, 0.03% of precious RAM wasted on my 14 year old hardware. mad

My Gentoo desktop does not currently have /tmp in RAM, because I have a tendency to compile stuff there and old (bad) habits die hard.

#33 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] tmp files now stored in a tempfs? Excalibur/Trixie » 2025-12-31 10:08:35

The tmpfs functionality is not mysterious, but this thread kinda is:
a) We begin with a swearing rant about Debian, rather than reading the man pages or conf file where this is all explained.
b) Two people in a row go with "I don't know", rather than just doing 'grep -r tmpfs /etc/' and finding out.

Some days I really wonder if this whole board isn't just a place to bitch about upstreams, other distros, and anyone who ever dared to change anything.
Here I was thinking "other issues" was for questions and technical support.

#34 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] tmp files now stored in a tempfs? Excalibur/Trixie » 2025-12-31 04:59:18

greenjeans wrote:

So is this in Devuan too?

It's optional, same as it always was:

# mount /tmp as a tmpfs.  Defaults to no; set to yes to enable (/tmp
# will be part of the root filesystem if disabled).  /tmp may also be
# configured to be a separate mount in /etc/fstab.
#RAMTMP=no
greenjeans wrote:

50% of my ram by default... i'm too f***ing sure, how do they come up with this bullshit?

They "come up with this", because it's a thing many other distros do by default and many users used to do manually, which reduces SSD writes and improves latency for applications that make frequent use of /tmp.

"50% of my ram" is a default upper limit, actual memory consumption for tmpfs (unlike a traditional ramdisk) is dynamic.
On most systems /tmp is only a few MiB, and has negligible impact on available memory. If you want to stash huge files there for some reason, simply disable or configure it to your liking. See man tmpfs(5). Note that as per FHS, /tmp is not expected to survive a reboot either way.

HardSun wrote:

im not sure where the hard coded settings for tmpfs are

/lib/init/tmpfs.sh, which is called from /etc/init.d/mountall.sh, which is illuminated by a couple of seconds with grep. I'm not sure what the big mystery here is.

#35 Re: Off-topic » AI in Firefox or Waterfox » 2025-12-19 18:20:39

about:config option to disable it?

For ML in firefox itself, about:config -> browser.ml.enable
What your search engine of choice does is another matter, having nothing at all to do with the browser, because:

FireFox/ddg

Are two separate entities, obviously.

Also, direct comment from firefox dev WRT disabling ML features in future here. Apparently they actually listened for once when we all said "please give us a simple toggle not buried in about:config."

#36 Re: Devuan » Devuan 6 Extremely Poor Quality Control. » 2025-12-18 10:08:40

"Quality control" WRT Debian and/or Devuan releases isn't about upstream software having bugs or not... It's whether buggy upstream versions are packaged for stable.
This is why we have the unstable -> testing -> stable workflow - packages that have serious bugs shouldn't be making it through testing... And they sure as hell shouldn't be the first thing a user interacts with in a release livecd or default install.

This particular bug in SLiM was raised in the excalibur RCs, and hasn't been satisfactorily addressed (nor has the one I reported). Those bugs existing is on upstream, but SLiM still being the default greeter despite them is a Devuan decision, and by extension, a Devuan problem.

Upstream bugs are not a distribution issue. Software selection, packaging, and sane defaults are.
If Devuan wants to package a different default desktop setup from Debian, the lack of QC on that setup is not something that can be blamed on Debian.
They use lightdm for their XFCE live image, did anyone think to ask why, or are we all too busy trying to deflect blame for the rushed, poorly tested, perpetually janky live releases?

SLiM is a mess, and has been for years. Stop using it as the default greeter. Problem solved. roll

#37 Re: Packaging for Devuan » (request) including of USBimager » 2025-12-15 10:37:30

it is harder to use "mkusb" program on Devuan/Debian nowadys

mkusb is an Ubuntu specific tool, so that's not particularly surprising.

The closest you will get to a "universal" bootable-media tool is ventoy, which should run fine on Devuan.

"USBImager"... "ddCopy"

both provide .deb packages which will very likely work on Devuan. Have you tried them?

format SDcard or USB to standard FAT32

mkfs.fat -F32 /dev/[whatever]

Why on earth do we need a GUI for this?
Similarly, for writing single hybrid images to removable media, dd or cp work just as well as they always have.

#38 Re: Installation » Post installation annoyances » 2025-12-13 07:53:57

03: Probably chipset power management. You don't say what (if any) sound server you are using or provide any details of your audio hardware, so generic answers assuming pulseaudio it is: here, and here. TLDR: Disable audio device PM, first for the sound server, and if that doesn't solve it do the same by passing the relevant parameter for (whatever hardware you have) as module options or via sysfs.

09: Again assuming pulseaudio: get sinks with 'pactl list-sinks', put 'set-default-sink [index you found with pactl]' in /etc/pulse/default.pa (see e.g. here)...
Or use a less gimped DE that has a GUI for configuring this and persists settings across logins.

If you're running pipewire the answers are similar, STW for correct config syntax.

10: If they're standard keys (i.e. not some vendor-specific nonsense), get the scancodes with xev - then assign them to do something with XKB or xmodmap... Or use a less gimped DE which supports media keys directly and provides a GUI for configuring them.
If they are special vendor-specific voodoo (i.e. xev doesn't spit out a scancode), they might emit ACPI events instead - for which there is acpid.

The rest: All XFCE problems. I don't use XFCE, I don't like XFCE, and I have no idea why it is the default desktop since it's not even particularly "lightweight" these days.

#39 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Recommend a Hypervisor ? » 2025-12-05 08:20:50

Duke Nukem wrote:

I used to use VirtualBox - why was it crap?

It isn't. It's just a pain in the arse to package for and maintain in debian. "crap" is an assumption from those too lazy to investigate why it was dropped from the repos, a "sour grapes" justification from those too inept to work around that removal, or...

rolfie wrote:

It called crap by the users of kvm/qemu, VMware, Proxmox etc that only consider their tooling as approriate. Others complain about the license Oracle is using. Others don't like to use a Oracle product ..... I am happy to use it for 13 years now

Indeed, and while the fully FOSS options are arguably better in many situations, there are a few corners where virtualbox still pulls ahead - IME those being a mature and fully featured GUI, and somewhat superior (primarily graphics) performance for windows guests.
It's also properly cross-platform (which kvm is not) and free (which vmware is not), so for the casual user who wants their VMs to be portable between different host systems without a bunch of faffing around it's rather convenient.

pcalvert wrote:

Oracle wants people to use the latest version of VirtualBox rather than the Debian way, which is to apply patches to an older version of VirtualBox.

That's the primary concern (i.e. oracle not cooperating wrt backporting fixes), and it's exacerbated by the licencing making it very difficult for debian maintainers to do such backporting themselves.

As such, "stable" (and secure) virtualbox versions cannot be maintained in the debian (and by extension devuan) stable repos, but current upstream releases are still available in unstable.
The simplest solution (unless/until it appears in trixie-fasttrack) is to either use the upstream release .debs or backport it from unstable yourself.

#40 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » [SOLVED] Running with disconnected SATA cables » 2025-11-29 03:02:40

Would any harm be done to SATA hard drives or their contents if run with their power cables connected but with the SATA data cables disconnected?

No.
That said, a) You needn't worry about data loss because anyone with a shred of sense has backups, and b) It's far easier to simply disable the port in BIOS.

#41 Re: Documentation » How to: Devuan 5 Daedalus an pipewire » 2025-11-17 07:41:04

OpenBSD, it has no bluetooth stack

Really? They still don't have bluetooth?
I get OpenBSD having not-desktop priorities, but FFS, bluetooth came out in 1998.

#42 Re: Off-topic » Devuan Users Audio Sound Setups » 2025-11-17 06:00:10

you just use an old HP PC as a sound server that runs all that hardware?

I wanted something that I could put my Auzentech card in (because excellent sound quality, socketed opamps, sufficiently high output level to directly drive power amp without needing a preamp), that means a 32bit PCI slot, which means kinda old (i.e. ~sandybridge).
Ended up with *goes to look* an HP RP5800, which being a POS machine has the added advantage of powered-USB (12 & 24v) so I can do power+data for the touchscreen with a single cable.

Mopidy/MPD control is via webui (local touchscreen or remote), android app, or cantata on another PC. Sources are FLAC files over SMB from my (also Devuan) fileserver.
IMO a HiFi is for music (also, I haven't owned a TV for over a decade), so this setup does exactly what it needs to do and no more.
I did play around with a raspberry pi + DAC hat, but frankly the Auzentech just sounds better (primarily because it has real analog volume control).

Ive always favored Denon

I don't really do the brand-loyalty (excepting a minor soft-spot for '70's Sansui, reminding me to get on with fixing that AU9500) or "big name / big money must sound good" bit, I just mix and match what works and let my ears (and when it comes to amplifiers, my 'scope) be the judge.
I honestly have no idea what that 350W amp cost me to build, but it's probably getting up around a couple grand... A price worth paying for something with that much grunt and the ultimate (I built it, so I can always fix it) in serviceability and simplicity - No frills, no digital nonsense, just power and line-level in, speaker level out, a power button and one status light.

The rest is an assortment of opportunistic mostly second-hand purchases, dumpster-diving, and "screw it, nobody makes what I want, I'll just build it".

I don't know how you survived going from a 3K hifi to a portable bluetooth speaker, that sounds kinda painful TBH. If it's space at a premuim... Do speakers not take priority over bed, chair, kitchen table, other optional furniture? tongue

#43 Re: Off-topic » Devuan Users Audio Sound Setups » 2025-11-17 05:40:44

Main Rig:
Source: Random HP SFF POS machine, salvaged industial touchscreen, Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 2G PCI soundcard, running Mopidy + webui kiosk on Devuan (curently oldoldstable).
Amp: Homebuilt 2U rackmount class A/B power amp, ~350WPC x2, based on Silicon Chip magazine Studio 350 project.
Main drivers: Cerwin Vega E315.
Subwoofer: 15" Cerwin Vega (I forget the model, onboard amp died and replaced with 200W class-D mosfet board I also forget the details of).

All old-school analog, all brute-force, pleasantly low noise and THD (the lousy sub amp doesn't count, it's a sub).

PC rig (not Devuan):
Source: Onboard analog audio (realtek ALC1220).
Amp: Homebuilt class A/B power amp, ~60WPC x2, based on Elliot Sound Products project 3A.
Drivers: JPW ML510

#44 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Power usage of SSDs » 2025-11-16 02:43:38

an SSD is basically a very large USB stick

More like several "USB stick"s in RAID0, with dedicated DRAM cache (or host RAM cache if you're a cheapskate) and a far more intelligent controller.

I wonder if the internal temperature sensor is available through the interface?

Usually, though what it's called varies by manufacturer.

Does hddtemp work with SSDs?

Assuming it reads data from the usual sources, I don't see why not. Honestly I have no idea why people want some dedicated tool like hddtemp just to print data already available in sysfs or via smartmontools.

#45 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Power usage of SSDs » 2025-11-15 01:51:37

All power ratings on drives are peak values (for sizing power supplies etc.) unless otherwise specified. They have very little bearing on average power consumption, which will vary wildly with workload.
It's not as simple as "smaller number less power" either, since a faster drive will usually draw higher peak power, but get its work done quicker and drop back to idle sooner.

The only accurate  way to compare is, as always, to stop obsessing over manufacturer specifications and actually measure power consumption under your specific workload.

SSDs generally draw peak power under sustained write workloads, HDDs at spinup / spindle start.
The big power saving from SSDs comes from write-heavy workloads being intermittent, idle power draw being very low, and the transition being practically free.

With a HDD you have to choose between keeping the spindle running all the time (thus higher idle draw), or starting it only when needed (incurring access delays and spikes to near peak current).
For laptops there's the added complication of a spinning drive (i.e. unparked heads) being vulnerable to physical shock, so they usually run very short spindown timeouts - that's great for power consumption if the drive is usually idle, but terrible if it has to spin back up every other minute.

There's also an advantage in SSDs not needing to physically move heads around, so all areas cost the same to access (caching complications aside) and reads can use much less power than writes (typical workloads often being more read than write).
The power consumption of a HDD for a given operation will vary with where it is on disk, i.e. how many seeks and how far, and seeking to a read location uses just as much power as seeking to a write. (upshot: defragging your rust not only makes it faster, it also saves energy wink)

PCIe3 consumes less than PCIe4, less than PCIe5.

Again that's peak power, and it's simply because faster drives use more power under load. The bus itself makes very little difference in the real world, because ASPM.

#46 Re: Other Issues » Hi, new here just joined devuan. need help with games an programs. » 2025-11-15 01:35:24

TalionRanger117 wrote:

talion is not in the sudoers file how do i fix that

Add your user to the sudoers file or the sudo group, e.g. as described at https://wiki.debian.org/sudo/#Granting_sudo_access or by 'man sudoers'.

TalionRanger117 wrote:

neither zenity
nor kdialog were found. Please install one of them if you want
a graphical interface, or run with --help for more options.

That message tells you exactly what to do.

rolfie wrote:

Don't try to mix.

I don't have, nor have ever had, a single install that wasn't set up with both an unlocked root account and sudo. There's no reason whatsoever not to "mix", besides it requiring a trivial extra step after installation.

#47 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Why does Trixie/Excalibur have two Nvidia driver versions (535 / 550)? » 2025-11-14 18:42:47

IME the problems with nvidia drivers are largely those inherent to being out-of-tree (i.e. delays or patches WRT compatability with kernel releases), with a dash of nvidia doing things nvidia ways (nvidias architecture predates much of the current Linux graphics stack being standardised).
Those are minimised if you run a fixed-release binary distro like Debian, but can get pretty annoying on a rolling-release or if you build your own kernels from upstream head.

#48 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » Excalibur desktop-live: "switch user" action segfaults xfce4-session » 2025-11-14 13:01:57

I believe you found another bug in the Slim display manager.

Colour me not at all surprised. While SLiM is indeed "slim", it's functionality is eclipsed by even the venerable XDM. User switching, bah, who needs that? roll

Also, the who command returns nothing.

Don't ask me how, but SLiM somehow manages to not register login, session nor seat properly. At least that means it doesn't unexpectedly inhibit logind idle actions, unlike certain other disasters (SDDM).

If lightdm had a greeter (in the repos) that didn't drag in a bunch of gnome/GTK3 dependencies I'd be all for it...

For such a relatively simple function as a display-manager / graphical greeter, there really is a dearth of options that don't suck in some fundamental way.

#49 Re: Devuan » New to Linux: Independent vs Based-on Distributions? » 2025-11-14 07:44:40

I did the LFS thing somewhere around 2002, because slackware packaging was arse and redhat was a steaming pile at the time. I only used my custom distro for a year or two, but the experience gained is still useful to this day.

I wouldn't recommend (B)LFS as a daily-driver in any sense (at least not without bolting-on some package manager anyway), but if you want to join the cadre of people who fix problems rather than just waiting for someone else to do it, it's a fine place to start.
Even if you only do it once for fun, learning how to compile from source, apply patches, and configure a system without all the convenience features in a big distro is valuable any time you encounter problems, need something that isn't in a distribution repository, or even just want to file a useful bug report.

#50 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Why does Trixie/Excalibur have two Nvidia driver versions (535 / 550)? » 2025-11-14 07:17:54

zapper wrote:

I don't use nvidia either...

I don't use nvidia, because the drivers are a constant source of aggravation... Much as ATI drivers used to be. How the tables have turned.

zapper wrote:

why bother having an additional graphics card.

Because IGPU is too slow, lacks features, or is absent entirely?

zapper wrote:

They waste electricity even if you aren't using them and a lot more if you are.

Current GPU is using less than 5w, while writing this and doing general desktop stuff. When I want performance... You get what you pay for (in watts).

I don't understand obsessing over idle power consumption, particularly when it's on-par with a network card or additional SSD.

zapper wrote:

I thought intel and amd both had their own individual graphics card functionality built in.

Depends on SKU, both have options with and without an IGPU.

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