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#1 Off-topic » Thank you Devuan » 2024-10-06 14:42:42

nixer
Replies: 27

Sometimes you run across something that really does open your eyes and makes you appreciate what you have - for example, Devuan.

Yesterday I ran across a mailing list post from 2010 from Lennert Pottering.  It really opened my eyes regarding his consideration of linux and his purpose for systemd.  I now have a better understanding why non-systemd systems were created and do still exist.  I really do not want to fan the flames of fire towards systemd.  Everyone reading this has probably already read enough about this.  It is well documented and preserved.  However, this entire post is short and I did extract the worst of it, but I added nothing.  It is what it is.

I really have to wonder why and what is the purpose of such benevolence towards others and their creations? 

Coersion ?

...it is definitely our intention to gently push the distributions in the same direction so that they stop supporting deviating solutions ...

Consideration?

... our plan is to enable all this by default ... we want to put the burden on the packagers, so that eventually we end up with the same base system on all distributions, ...

Conquering?

If a distro decides ... then it's their own job to disable ours and plug in their own instead. Sooner or later they'll hopefully notice that it's not worth it and cross-distro unification is worth more.

I have a new appreciation on what Devuan is and what it stands for. 

I have been using Devuan since before it even had an installer.  In the earliest days it has a bootstrap method of "installation" which, while not elegant, it worked.

To those that create and develop Devuan, congratulations on being available to the public for over 10 years now.  My heartfelt "thank you" goes out to everyone who has worked to make it what it is today.

The entire post is found at https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/ … 00391.html

#2 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] This morning's apt update » 2024-09-03 11:19:38

Debian had a point release update on the 31st of August.  It affected both chimaera and daedalus.  I had about 50 updates on my desktop system(s).

#3 Re: Installation » how restore default permissions root folder after copy OS to SSD? » 2024-08-27 20:42:14

if it so, why this important thing not mentioned in the rsync manual at first place?

That I do not know.  I have moved/archived/copied installs this way for several years now.  When using only devuan to copy or rsync an install this was never an issue, so I never used the "--numeric-ids" in my rsync command.  However, once I used a different operating system, this became an issue.  So I tried it on the recommendation in the Void forums, and it worked.  I used devuan to rsync a different linux OS, and "--numeric-ids" worked.

It is mentioned in the rsync man file:

man rsync

--numeric-ids            don't map uid/gid values by user/group name

#4 Re: Installation » how restore default permissions root folder after copy OS to SSD? » 2024-08-25 19:31:45

As a suggestion, I mentioned adding the "--numeric-ids" option.  It seems that by default rsync will sync user information as user:group and not UID:GID, which can cause some permissions issues.  The "--numeric-ids" will change this behavior.  The user and group name will still copy over but this seems to fix any issued caused by a different operating system handling the rsync data.  Sorry for not being too technical but a search request reveals this:

--numeric-ids With this option rsync will transfer numeric group and user IDs rather than using user and group names and mapping them at both ends. By default rsync will use the username and groupname to determine what ownership to give files.

Hey, I tried it and it worked.  So, I thought I would mention it as it sounds like you are having similar issues.

#5 Re: Installation » how restore default permissions root folder after copy OS to SSD? » 2024-08-25 14:33:35

i did
home:[freeartist-artix]:~$ sudo rsync -aXHx --info=progress2 /mnt/Dev1/ /mnt/Dev2/

Allow me to ask, what operating system did you use to copy the source partition to the destination partition?  Devuan or another?

I do rsync copying pretty often and I recently had a situation where I had to add "--numeric-ids" to the rsync command.  This was because there was a different operating system involved in the mix, not just devuan.  In this instance I used devuan to host a Void virtual machine and I copied the virtual machine onto a locally mounted partition.  Essentially, I moved a VM onto a physical partition.   It worked fine after the fstab file was altered with the new UUID's, grub reinstalled, and the initramfs was rebuilt.

The actual command used that worked for me, from a VM to a locally mounted partition:

rsync -aHAXv --numeric-ids --exclude={"/dev/*","/proc/*","/sys/*","/run/*","/media/*","/mnt/*","/lost+found"} /* root@10.0.0.1:/media/User/Void/ --delete

Hope this helps.

#6 Re: Installation » is the Devuan repository server usually slow or offline? » 2024-08-22 14:58:41

What error message?  What repository?  Was it actually a devuan repo or one of the debian round robin dns repos accessed with deb.devuan.org?

There have been some information about similar issues but I have had no problems at all with the devuan repos.  Sometimes I do have a problem with one of the debian repos accessed with the round robin dns name.  It may be slow, time out, etc.  When it does this, I just try again later.

When you are trying to update, you will see the server name that you are trying to download from mentioned.  Similar issues have been noted by others.  You might want to search this forum board and/or the mailing list.

#7 Re: Installation » Fresh Daedalus, residual app install issues » 2024-08-15 11:54:18

For google-earth,
https://www.google.com/intl/en/earth/versions/

For librewolf,  don't know about Otter
https://librewolf.net/installation/debian/

As for the synaptic file for installed packages, a web search is your friend as I know it can be done.  But, I have never done it, yet.

For the video card issue, I suggest to download the video drivers needed before changing the cards, then install after the hardware change.  If after changing the hardware the X desktop does not come up, you may have to boot into recovery mode to install the drivers.  This is what I have done on several occasions.

#8 Re: Installation » does the Brave browser work here? » 2024-07-10 23:56:20

It runs fine for me on ceres (unstable).  I also have it installed on excalibur (testing), and daedalus (stable).  It is installed with apt with the brave repository active.  But note, I have not booted into the stable and testing install in a while so I don't know if it runs, but it installs and updates without error.

#9 Re: Off-topic » Refracta-SnapShot - Question » 2024-06-15 16:36:06

pcalvert,

Were you able to do anything regarding alpine linux?  I looked at the packages involved and it is the "live-boot and live-config" packages that are missing and I don't know what could be used to replace their function - if this is possible.

The refracta-tools scripts have spoiled me.

#10 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] Chromium update ruined my shortcut to second profile » 2024-05-24 00:59:48

Yes, it is the version that I updated to that broke my second profile.  I removed that version and installed the previous version and my second profile works as expected.

The version that works correctly is

125.0.6422.60-1 500
        500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged excalibur/main amd64 Packages

#11 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] Chromium update ruined my shortcut to second profile » 2024-05-23 13:47:53

The same thing just happened to me, on a ceres install.

$ apt policy chromium
chromium:
  Installed: 125.0.6422.76-1
  Candidate: 125.0.6422.76-1
(snip)

My second profile only displays the url address of 0.0.0.1.

Oh well, I removed and then installed the version from excalibur and all is well, for now.  I did notice that a "Person 1" profile had been created that was deleted.  Don't know if I created it by clicking on a profile button in the browser or whether the bad update created it.

#12 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] No exit from sleep after devuan installation » 2024-05-21 16:10:43

Is any of the first two useful in this issue?

I do not know.  On my system, it listed a total of about 7-8 devices.  All but two of them had the hardware names of the device so it made it easy to know which two were the keyboard and mouse.

#13 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] No exit from sleep after devuan installation » 2024-05-21 13:47:09

Yes, and the purpose of this command is to specify the information to add to the /etc/rc.local file

grep . /sys/bus/usb/devices/*/product

Which in my case lists these two devices which are my usb mouse and keyboard so that I can use either one to wake the system.

/sys/bus/usb/devices/1-5/product:USB Receiver
/sys/bus/usb/devices/1-6/product:USB Receiver

Note the "1-5" and "1-6" which is necessary information to add to the rc.local file.  I do not know why this command is not working for you, and I can't think of anything else to try.  If you were to manually change these while in a running state and save the changes, it may work until a reboot.  Upon rebooting, the changes would revert back to their original settings... hence is is necessary to have this in the rc.local file so that it gets set right when booting. 

There is also a way to do this by way of a bash script, but the rc.local way was easier, and both ways need the same command to be run to set the information correctly.  So this way would not help either.

#14 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] No exit from sleep after devuan installation » 2024-05-21 11:10:45

The folder names under /sys/bus/usb/devices/ is correct and normal, but I don't have a clue what is causing that small white square under the command.  Is grep installed on that machine?  If not, I would think that it would throw an error.

As root, run this command to see if grep is installed.

apt policy grep

#15 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] No exit from sleep after devuan installation » 2024-05-21 10:15:18

DE is desktop environment - Xfce, KDE, Mate, etc.  The energy settings are usually located in the menu.  For example, Menu > Settings > Power Manager in Xfce.

#16 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] No exit from sleep after devuan installation » 2024-05-20 20:04:13

The command that did not work, did it produce any output at all?  I used these commands as user, but I don't think it would harm anything to run this as root.  I ran the command on my system as root and it produced the same desired output. 

I have used this on several systems - desktop, laptops, etc. - and it always listed all usb devices so that you could use the exact information to add to the rc.local file.  For example, the information that you added to the rc.local file does not look right.  For example, my usb devices are not listed as usb1, usb2, and so on, but rather, it lists them as 1-5, 1-6, etc. And from this I can choose the keyboard and mouse devices from the others that will not be used to wake the system up.

Granted, this is mentioned to wake from suspend and hibernate, but I have also used it to fix a situation just like yours - waking the monitor up.

#17 Re: Installation » [SOLVED] No exit from sleep after devuan installation » 2024-05-20 12:24:23

This is what helped me -

https://askubuntu.com/questions/848698/ … usb-device

In short, you identify the usb devices in use and then add an entry to /etc/rc.local.

A better write-up as it pertains to devuan is located here:  https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5973

Hope this helps.

#18 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Installing devuan on vps » 2024-05-13 10:25:43

is the desktop installation necessarily to complete the installation even though it is for a vps?

No, it is not necessary on a vps.  I have never installed a desktop (kde, xfce, mate, etc.) on a vps.  This is up to you on how you want to manage it - either from a command line or a panel, like webmin.

I still would like to know what is causing the problem, but right now I can not think of anything else to try.  I have done this migration many times and it always worked. 

The only thing that I can think of is that maybe you missed a step in the migration path, or there may be some kind of apt pinning.

This will check for any left over apt-pinning.  What is the output of the command:

apt-mark showhold

You might want to try to reinstall dbus.  The following command will simulate a reinstall without doing anything.  It will only report what it will do if you run the command without the -s flag.  It will show you which package will get reinstalled, either the devuan or debian version.  To actually reinstall dbus, run the command without the -s flag.

apt install libdbus-1-3 --reinstall -s

You quoted the following:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 dbus : Depends: libdbus-1-3 (= 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1) but 1.12.28-0+deb11u1 is to be installed
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

This is not correct for chimaera.  This is what my chimaera versions show:

root@Host:/home/nixer# apt policy libdbus-1-3
libdbus-1-3:
  Installed: 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1
  Candidate: 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1
  Version table:
 *** 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1 500
        500 http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

If we are unable to make this migration work, you might want to inquire about another method of getting devuan on you vps.
- reinstalling debian on the vps and try the migration again
- re-install the vps using a custom.iso of devuan.  This could be a netinstall disk, or a custom build.  You will need to check with the vps provider and see if this is possible. 
- keep what you have got and rsync a local build onto the vps.

Edit:  changed apt reinstall command from dbus to libdbus-1-3

#19 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Installing devuan on vps » 2024-05-08 11:46:18

default-dbus-session-bus and dbus-session-bus are not found in the chimaera repositories.  However, they are listed as virtual packages by apt.  This would explain why the following command shows them as non-existent.  I would imagine that a standard dbus install would provide this need.

root@hostOS:/home/user#  apt policy default-dbus-session-bus dbus-session-bus
default-dbus-session-bus:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: (none)
  Version table:
dbus-session-bus:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: (none)
  Version table:

apt info default-dbus-session-bus dbus-session-bus
Package: default-dbus-session-bus
State: not a real package (virtual)
Package: dbus-session-bus
State: not a real package (virtual)

These virtual packages are provided by the package dbus.

apt info dbus
Package: dbus
Version: 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1
snip...
Provides: dbus-bin (= 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1), dbus-daemon (= 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1), dbus-session-bus-common (= 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1), dbus-system-bus (= 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1), dbus-system-bus-common (= 1.12.24-0+deb11u1devuan1), default-dbus-system-bus
...snip

At this point, this is all I can think of for you to check.  If your /etc/apt/sources.list file is correct, you should not be getting this message.  Please check this sources.list file again.  Look for any other lines that might mention any other repository.  Also, look in the folder /etc/apt/sources.list.d and see if any files in this folder mention any other reporitories.  If you do have any other lines, post them here.  I think that you might have a left over line from another repository that may be messing things up.

Is this a bug with task-gnome-desktop only?  Try this, do you get any errors if you try to install ?

apt install task-xfce-desktop

#20 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Installing devuan on vps » 2024-05-07 11:26:12

Try this,

apt install devuan-keyring

and then try

apt update && apt dist-upgrade

Edit:  You might need to use this command to install devuan-keyring.  This was mentioned in the migration article but you may have overlooked it.

apt-get install devuan-keyring --allow-unauthenticated

Once the keyring is installed, you might want to read again the migration article to make sure that all steps have been completed in the proper order.

#21 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Installing devuan on vps » 2024-05-07 10:24:46

And the output of ?

apt policy devuan-keyring

#22 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Installing devuan on vps » 2024-05-06 16:45:05

tyrlak,

What is the output of

cat /etc/apt/sources.list

What is the output of

apt policy default-dbus-session-bus

-and-

apt policy dbus-session-bus

What is the output of

apt update && apt dist-upgrade

What is the output of

apt policy xfconf

This is enough to get started.  I am wondering if the dbus packages mentioned in the error are installed?  And like golinux said, please use

code

-or

quote

tags around the terminal informations.  It does make your information easier to see and read.

Edit:  After posting this, I ran the "apt policy" commands above and found that these two missing packages default-dbus-session-bus and dbus-session-bus are not found in the chimaera repos, but they are in my ceres repo.  I am interested in what the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list will reveal.

#23 Re: Off-topic » [SOLVED] Installing devuan on vps » 2024-04-30 23:28:45

As far as running an installation disk from within a running vps instance, I am not aware of how to do this.

I want to ask, have you considered migrating the debian vps to devuan?

If you can "attach" the iso to the vps machine-
The simpliest way would be to "attach" the iso to the virtual machine, but not all commercial vps providers offer this capability.  Is this a possibility?  If so, simply "attach" and reboot the server and the devuan install disk should start.  I assume here that you have the capability to see the "virtual physical" screen to navigate through the installation process.

Another option would be to build your devuan.iso disk locally, or use a devuan release live.iso build and upload and attach it to the vps.  This way, with a live build you could access the vps by way of ssh and run the refractainstaller program.

If this "attach" capability is not available, I have known a provider to install a custom .iso that I requested.  You might want to request this from your provider.

Last idea, use rsync to transfer your custom iso build to the vps and in essence to overwrite all that is there.  This would replace what you currently have on the vps with what you have built locally.  Or, instead of building what you want, use an official devuan live disk release.  This is more advanced, but it is possible.  I have done this several times and it is a lifesaver.  Let me know if this interests you.

This is also an excellent reason to have a virtual machine program on your local end to test these options out, before attempting on a production vps.

#24 Re: Installation » I screwed XFCE up, xfce panel won't show at all » 2024-04-21 23:17:35

Also, before doing something drastic, rename the /home/USER/.config/xfce4  folder to something like xfce4.bak.

Then try to restart xfce again and see if it recreates that folder and its contents.

#25 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] libelogind-compat : Conflicts: libsystemd0 » 2024-04-14 21:44:19

To add a little more here, the problem may show up again.  If you purge the "systemd-standalone-sysusers" package, and pin it in apt so it does not get reinstalled, in  /etc/apt/preferences.d/nosystemd  like so:

Package: *systemd* systemd-* systemd-standalone-sysusers
Pin: release n=ceres
Pin-Priority: -1

And then reinstall the packages that got removed when "systemd-standalone-sysusers" was purged, it should install a compatible package called "opensysusers".   This is what I did a month ago to proceed with updating as I was getting the same error message(s).

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