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#1 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-05-01 14:22:12

Anyway, back on-topic, it seems that the justification by Mozilla's apologists for embedding JavaScript in PDFs is that "almost every webpage have JavaScript anyway, so why bother about security?"

But they are looking on the wrong direction. If you need dynamic content, you should use HTML for that, because that's designed for the web (unlike PDFs). PDF is already a PITA in terms of security in the past, why reintroduce that nightmare? When Adobe, which is native, does it, it's not okay, but when browsers do it, which never was meant to render PDFs, it's okay all of a sudden? I don't understand.

#2 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-05-01 14:01:58

Welp, someone mentioned Pale Moon and the forums go nuts about it lol

#3 Re: Off-topic » ${THEY} continue crippling browsers... » 2021-04-21 09:44:44

dice wrote:

good reason to never use the inbuilt FF pdf reader.

Agreed. Even without the ability to embed JavaScript to PDF, it's a security risk nonetheless. pdf.js is also not as accurate as other dedicated PDF viewers, I heard.

The only good thing about pdf.js is the ability to embed PDFs in a website, instead of having to download them.

#4 Re: Devuan » Devuan 4 Alpha Installer Iso's » 2021-04-20 09:21:52

Ah yeah, forgot about that. Pretty ironic for the maintainer of the package itself huh? big_smile

#5 Re: Devuan » Devuan 4 Alpha Installer Iso's » 2021-04-20 06:55:20

fsmithred wrote:

Wicd is gone, and nothing currently replaces it.

I suggest doing away with wicd for desktop installs, and use connman instead. connman-gtk for gtk DEs like XFCE, and cmst for QT like LXQT.

#6 Re: Devuan » As Debian 11 moves closer to Devuan. Is there any reason to stay on De » 2021-04-05 07:19:15

As long as Debian maintainers are still encouraged to exclude sysv-compatible init scripts from their packages, I'm staying with Devuan.

The previous iwd maintainer refusing to add a sysv init script is the reason why I forked the iwd package for Devuan. 5 versions have passed and my init script still works fine. It doesn't need "dbus-activation" or whatever buzzword they are pushing for.

#7 Re: Other Issues » Can't upgrade my packages from's ftp server » 2021-04-03 06:05:19

It seems to be a problem with /merged. I pulled the experimental version of iwd, which is on /devuan, and it works.

#8 Re: Other Issues » Can't upgrade my packages from's ftp server » 2021-04-03 06:01:50

I tried, which offers ftp, but pulling packages using apt results in the same error.

#9 Other Issues » Can't upgrade my packages from's ftp server » 2021-04-03 04:50:19

Replies: 6

I just reenabled ftp in my apt to see how it compares to http. apt-get update works fine. However apt-get upgrade doesn't. When I try to pull packages from the ftp server, it results in "No such file or directory" errors.

Is ftp in still officially supported? I mean I can just go back to http and upgrading will work fine, but I'm curious on the status of ftp.

Here's my sources.list config:

#deb cdrom:[Devuan GNU/Linux 3.0 (beowulf) amd64 - cd2 20200526]/ beowulf main
#deb cdrom:[Devuan GNU/Linux 3.0 (beowulf) amd64 - server 20200526]/ beowulf main

deb chimaera main contrib non-free
deb-src chimaera main contrib non-free

#deb ceres main contrib non-free
deb-src ceres main contrib non-free

deb experimental main contrib non-free

#deb freesh main

deb bullseye main

deb ascii main contrib non-free

And here's a sample error from apt:

E: Failed to fetch  Unable to fetch file, server said '/devuan/merged/pool/DEBIAN/main/l/ldb/python3-ldb_2.2.0-3.1_amd64.deb: No such file or directory  ' [IP: 21]

#10 Off-topic » RMS returns to the FSF » 2021-03-27 09:26:31

Replies: 0

Hi, a number of projects have signed the open letter opposing Richard Stallman's return to the FSF board. Debian is also considering a GR in support of the said open letter.

Is Devuan as a whole going to take a stance on this issue?

(I'm not saying you should sign the open letter opposing rms, in fact it would be disastrous if you do that... I'd rather have Devuan stay neutral than sign that open letter)

#11 Re: Other Issues » [SOLVED] Jenkins keep failing on building iwd 1.9-1+devuan1 » 2020-09-12 01:22:37

Well, this is embarassing... Turns out I forgot to push the upstream/ and debian/ tags, which is why Jenkins always fails to build. Thanks to LeePen for pointing it out on the git repo!

bgstack15 wrote:

try a debuild -us -uc -nc

Can confirm this works for me as well.

EDIT: The Jenkins autobuilder succeeded, as expected.

#12 Other Issues » [SOLVED] Jenkins keep failing on building iwd 1.9-1+devuan1 » 2020-09-11 13:41:46

Replies: 4

I have no idea what is causing the autobuilder to fail. The logs can be found at … 31/console.

I can't also build it on my local system using debuild -us -uc. Even the upstream 1.9-1 fails to build (I just removed the Build-Depends on systemd on debian/control before proceeding to compile), and I'm sure that I don't have any missing dependencies. It always exits out with these on the output:

dpkg-buildpackage: error: dpkg-source -b . subprocess returned exit status 127
debuild: fatal error at line 1182:
dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -ui failed

Can someone try to build the current suites/unstable of and see if it fails as well? TIA

#13 Re: Freedom Hacks » Do not use pulseaudio » 2020-08-21 11:43:33

And if the software you use depends on PA and they don't use ALSA, try wrapping the program with apulse, which is available in Devuan since oldstable ASCII. I use it for Seamonkey, where the official build wasn't compiled with support for ALSA.

#14 Off-topic » Seamonkey 2.53.3 fails to compile » 2020-08-20 12:44:16

Replies: 1

So I was trying to compile ALSA support for Seamonkey, and after like 4 hours of compiling I was greeted with this error:

/usr/bin/g++ -o Unified_cpp_linux0.o -c -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/dist/stl_wrappers -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/dist/system_wrappers -include /home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/config/gcc_hidden.h -DNDEBUG=1 -DTRIMMED=1 -DCOMMON_LINUX_GUID_CREATOR_H__=1 -DNO_STABS_SUPPORT -DSTATIC_EXPORTABLE_JS_API -DMOZ_HAS_MOZGLUE -DMOZILLA_INTERNAL_API -DIMPL_LIBXUL -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/toolkit/crashreporter/google-breakpad/src -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/dist/include -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/dist/include/nspr -I/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/dist/include/nss -fPIC -DMOZILLA_CLIENT -include /home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla-config.h -Wall -Wempty-body -Wignored-qualifiers -Woverloaded-virtual -Wpointer-arith
-Wsign-compare -Wtype-limits -Wunreachable-code -Wwrite-strings -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wc++1z-compat -Wduplicated-cond -Wimplicit-fallthrough -Wno-error=maybe-uninitialized -Wno-error=deprecated-declarations -Wno-error=array-bounds -Wno-error=free-nonheap-object -Wformat -Wformat-overflow=2 -fno-exceptions -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-rtti -fno-exceptions -fno-math-errno -pthread -pipe -g -freorder-blocks -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer  -Wno-unused-local-typedefs -Wno-shadow -Wno-deprecated-declarations -Wno-bool-compare -Wno-unused-but-set-variable -Wno-implicit-fallthrough -MD -MP -MF .deps/Unified_cpp_linux0.o.pp   /home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux/Unified_cpp_linux0.cpp
In file included from /home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux/Unified_cpp_linux0.cpp:38:
/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux/handler/ error: ‘int tgkill(pid_t, pid_t, int)’ was declared ‘exter
’ and later ‘static’ [-fpermissive]
  109 | static int tgkill(pid_t tgid, pid_t tid, int sig) {
      |            ^~~~~~
In file included from /usr/include/signal.h:374,
                 from /home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/dist/system_wrappers/signal.h:3,
                 from /home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/toolkit/crashreporter/google-breakpad/src/third_party/lss/linux_syscall_support.h:106,
                 from /home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux/crash_generation/,
                 from /home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux/Unified_cpp_linux0.cpp:2:
/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/signal_ext.h:29:12: note: previous declaration of ‘int tgkill(__pid_t, __pid_t, int)’
   29 | extern int tgkill (__pid_t __tgid, __pid_t __tid, int __signal);
      |            ^~~~~~
make[3]: *** [/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/config/ Unified_cpp_linux0.o] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory '/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux'
make[2]: *** [/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/config/ toolkit/crashreporter/breakpad-client/linux/target] Error 2
make[2]: Leaving directory '/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3'
make[1]: *** [/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/config/ compile] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3'
make: *** [/home/job/Software/seamonkey/seamonkey-2.53.3/mozilla/config/ default] Error 2

I'm sure I had installed all the required dependencies (otherwise I wouldn't have been able to use the configure script in the first place), so I have no idea what causes this error. I disabled PulseAudio and enabled ALSA at the first build, which resulted in this error. Then I removed the --disable-pulseaudio from my mozconfig and only left --enable-alsa, and the same error happens. 8 hours of compiling wasted...

#15 Re: Hardware & System Configuration » Making Devuan more secure. » 2020-08-19 03:20:49

bimon wrote:

...KDE4 or KDE5, they are full of backdoors and can erase your important ideas in knotes and kalarm at least.

Do you have proof for these claims? And you should probably report those problems with knotes and kalarm to the upstream's or Debian's bug tracker.

#16 Re: Other Issues » How to install Nginix + Postgres + PHP » 2020-08-19 03:06:17

Try using 'apt install php7.0 apache2- apache2-bin-'. apache is just a recommends in php7.0, so it should be possible to install php without apache.

#17 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-08-09 04:47:33

I am happy to announce that iwd is now forked for Devuan! You can see the package information at I would like to thank Mark Hindley for guiding me on this.

And because we have to fork iwd to make it work for Devuan, it unfortunately means that both the upstream and Debian maintainer are not interested in supporting sysvinit. I hope they change their mind, not only because I don't want to maintain this fork forever, but also because this is a bad path for GNU/Linux.

Anyway, since this thread was supposed to be about my xfce4-alsa-plugin, I decided to package it for Debian. I'm currently finding a sponsor at Once it gets accepted to the main archive, I will ask the xfce4 metapackage maintainers to consider not depending on xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, but on xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin | xfce4-alsa-plugin, so that Xfce users have a choice between PA and Alsa on their panel. That's the main goal I had on mind when packaging xfce4-alsa-plugin.

#18 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-08-01 03:29:57

bgstack15 wrote:

Says the guy who posts on here way more than I do, and I'm all-in on Devuan on the desktop! I don't use iwd (I'm happy with wicd until they drop it entirely which I know is coming) but I like dealing with packaging.

@jobbautista9, the way I fork a package from Debian is I go fetch the source from salsa. If it's not there, uh, I don't have a flow for that yet. But lightdm and freeipa are there so I'm good! Then you would make a new branch named devuan/suites-unstable off of debian/master and make your changes.

Ok, I cloned the salsa git repo of iwd to and made my changes to my devuan/suites-unstable branch. I haven't updated the debian/changelog yet, for reasons I will explain below.

fsmithred wrote:

I think this is the upstream source. They might be more receptive to suggestions: … git/about/

(And there's no guarantee that the changes won't get removed along the way.)

I was about to ask them on IRC, but then I got an email from the Debian maintainer of iwd. Turns out he created a patch which uses D-Bus activation (which I have no idea about), and sent it to the iwd devs and CC'd me. Here's the patch in question:                      | 11 ++++++-----
 src/net.connman.iwd.service      |  5 -----
 src/   |  5 +++++
 wired/net.connman.ead.service    |  5 -----
 wired/ |  5 +++++
 5 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-)
 delete mode 100644 src/net.connman.iwd.service
 create mode 100644 src/
 delete mode 100644 wired/net.connman.ead.service
 create mode 100644 wired/

diff --git a/ b/
index 57c694d..006d1d1 100644
--- a/
+++ b/
@@ -250,7 +250,7 @@ dist_dbus_data_DATA += src/iwd-dbus.conf

-src_iwd_DEPENDENCIES += src/iwd.service
+src_iwd_DEPENDENCIES += src/iwd.service src/net.connman.iwd.service

 systemd_unit_DATA += src/iwd.service
 dbus_bus_DATA += src/net.connman.iwd.service
@@ -328,7 +328,7 @@ dist_dbus_data_DATA += wired/ead-dbus.conf

-wired_ead_DEPENDENCIES += wired/ead.service
+wired_ead_DEPENDENCIES += wired/ead.service wired/net.connman.ead.service

 systemd_unit_DATA += wired/ead.service
 dbus_bus_DATA += wired/net.connman.ead.service
@@ -524,8 +524,8 @@ unit_test_p2p_LDADD = $(ell_ldadd)

 TESTS = $(unit_tests)

-EXTRA_DIST = src/genbuiltin src/ src/net.connman.iwd.service \
-			wired/ wired/net.connman.ead.service \
+EXTRA_DIST = src/genbuiltin src/ src/ \
+			wired/ wired/ \
 			src/ src/pkcs8.conf unit/gencerts.cnf \
 			$(manual_pages) $(patsubst %.1,%.rst, \
 					$(patsubst %.5,%.rst, \
@@ -539,7 +539,8 @@ if MAINTAINER_MODE

-CLEANFILES = src/iwd.service wired/ead.service
+CLEANFILES = src/iwd.service wired/ead.service \
+	     src/net.connman.iwd.service wired/net.connman.ead.service

 DISTCHECK_CONFIGURE_FLAGS = --disable-dbus-policy --disable-systemd-service \
 				--enable-sim-hardcoded \
diff --git a/src/net.connman.iwd.service b/src/net.connman.iwd.service
deleted file mode 100644
index d8ece4c..0000000
--- a/src/net.connman.iwd.service
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,5 +0,0 @@
-[D-BUS Service]
diff --git a/src/ b/src/
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..a7cb7ed
--- /dev/null
+++ b/src/
@@ -0,0 +1,5 @@
+[D-BUS Service]
diff --git a/wired/net.connman.ead.service b/wired/net.connman.ead.service
deleted file mode 100644
index 24af96b..0000000
--- a/wired/net.connman.ead.service
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,5 +0,0 @@
-[D-BUS Service]
diff --git a/wired/ b/wired/
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..63e5011
--- /dev/null
+++ b/wired/
@@ -0,0 +1,5 @@
+[D-BUS Service]

It should work with non-systemd inits, according to Andreas. The devs are reluctant to implement the patch, and wants an elaboration of why they should implement it if other distros can do it on their own. It's now up to me now on how to elaborate the reason why non-systemd inits should be supported by upstream...

So I'm going to postpone forking first and see if I could convince them to support sysvinit. I can CC you guys to the email conversation if you want.

EDIT: Clarifying on whether the patch really works or not

#19 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-07-31 02:05:58

Seems like we are forced to fork this package. Not that I'm surprised, though the response from him could have been a lot nicer (like "sorry, we don't plan to support non-systemd inits anytime soon, so I will have to put your report to wishlist priority"). He also wants iwd to be removed from Debian, which would be a disservice to both Debian and Devuan users. I can volunteer to become a maintainer of the fork, but I can't do it alone. @Head_on_a_Stick: Can you co-maintain iwd with me? You seem to know packaging more than me, based on your posts above, you love using iwd. smile

Speaking of fork, how do you guys start a fork of a Debian package? Do you send a bug report to wnpp then say that you intend to fork a package?

#20 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-07-30 12:05:03

So I got a response from the maintainer, and they sounded like I did everything wrong. Apparently, I was supposed to use Debian, even though I literally get the same result in a Debian Bullseye system with systemd removed and sysvinit installed (I had to install a Debian testing system alongside Devuan just to confirm this, even though I am 100% sure it will just be the same result). They also say that I didn't attach a patch on my email, even though I included the iwd-sysvinit-script file, which is the main patch, and the three other files which are needed to make the init script work on installation. My patch was unorthodox, sure (maybe the standard is to have .patch or .diff as an extension), but Debian's developer info about BTS says that the patch tag can be used if a patch or some other easy procedure for fixing the bug is included, unless the patch causes some other problems.

The response really struck down my morale hard.

#21 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-07-30 03:52:26

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

^ I presume you used apt source iwd to grab the original Debian source package and modified that?

jobbautista9 wrote:

I have no idea how to make the package install the sysv initscript to the system

Add the iwd sysvinit script to the main source directory and run this to create a patch to add it:

dpkg-source --commit

Then create a file at debian/iwd.install with this content:

iwd /etc/init.d/
jobbautista9 wrote:

tell it to update-rc.d

Add this to the file at debian/iwd.postinst (just before the #DEBHELPER# line):

# enable sysvinit script
update-rc.d iwd defaults

And also create a file at debian/iwd.postrm with this content:

set -e

# remove sysvinit script
update-rc.d iwd remove


Thanks, I applied your patch and iwd now starts at boot. I reported the bug to Debian (#966518) and included the patch, and I'm now waiting for a response. I hope they consider applying the patch, since if they do, then that means there's still a chance that init freedom will return to Debian. smile

#22 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-07-29 12:19:13

golinux wrote:
jobbautista9 wrote:

I hope Devuan fork this package and add the necessary init scripts. It's really annoying when you install a package just for it to not work afterwards, and you're forced to find a workaround yourself.

You could start by submitting the patch to Debian.  If that fails, you are welcome to maintain it long-term for Devuan.  smile

I was able to build iwd without systemd by overriding dh_auto_configure, but I have no idea how to make the package install the sysv initscript to the system and tell it to update-rc.d...

#23 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-07-29 02:58:57

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
jobbautista9 wrote:

In my experience, iwd is less reliable than wpa_supplicant

The package in beowulf is pre-release, the current versions are much better — I'm using v1.8 in my Alpine Linux box and it's very reliable.

jobbautista9 wrote:

iwd has a Build-Depends on systemd

That's not a hard dependency, Alpine Linux don't list it in their makedepends (Alpine is fundamentally incompatible with systemd).

EDIT: systemd is only needed because the compilation generates a unit file, Alpine specify ./configure --disable-systemd-service.

EDIT2: which is probably why your Devuan system didn't work with iwd — it doesn't supply a sysvinit script.

Here's the Alpine init script: … /iwd.initd

Use sysd2v to convert /lib/systemd/system/iwd.service to a sysvinit script then make it executable, put it in /etc/init.d/ and enable it.

The sysd2v script did work, however the iwd sysvinit script generated doesn't autostart at boot, so I have to "service iwd start" as root once I logged in. I'm using openrc.

And for some reason, exim4 is taking too long to start when I have iwd installed. This is not the case in wpa_supplicant.

I hope Devuan fork this package and add the necessary init scripts. It's really annoying when you install a package just for it to not work afterwards, and you're forced to find a workaround yourself.

#24 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-07-28 01:45:28

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Vernon wrote:

Note that the more recent versions of wpa_supplicant have "features" that don't work with certain Broadcom drivers.

Note that wicd uses wpa_supplicant to associate with wireless access points.

iwd ftw!

In my experience, iwd is less reliable than wpa_supplicant. When I installed iwd along with connman and removed wicd and wpasupplicant, then rebooted my Chimaera system, I wasn't able to get a wifi connection. So I reverted back to wpasupplicant (while still keeping connman), which works. Also note that iwd has a Build-Depends on systemd.

#25 Re: Desktop and Multimedia » xfce4-alsa-plugin now available for Debian-based systems (0.3.0-2) » 2020-07-28 01:39:04

Vernon wrote:
Updated with instructions for installing wicd and removing connman
jobbautista9 wrote:

When I installed Devuan Beowulf in my laptop with the amd64 server CD, everything works fine. Except for my wifi ... . I don't mind wifi since rtl8821ae is crap anyway,

I don't have this device but the following instructions may work.

As root, add  non-free contrib to your /etc/apt/sources.list file. The un-commented  parts of your  /etc/apt/sources.list file should look like

deb beowulf main non-free contrib
deb-src beowulf main non-free contrib
deb beowulf-security main non-free contrib
deb-src beowulf-security main non-free contrib
deb beowulf-updates main non-free contrib
deb-src beowulf-updates main non-free contrib

Then issue the following commands as root.

apt-get update
apt-get install firmware-realtek

Reboot. Devuan Beowulf does not install a graphical WiFi manager when you have no working WiFi during installation. You need to install wicd by issuing the following command as root.

apt-get install wicd

Since you now have wicd network manager installed, you no longer have need for network manger connman which was installed during installation. Remove it by issuing the following commands as root.

apt-get remove connman

Remember, I do not actually have your system so follow these instructions at your own risk. You may have to re-boot for the changes to take effect. Good Luck!

Actually I already have firmware-realtek when I finished installing my Devuan Beowulf. It is still unreliable and drops connection randomly, sometimes it doesn't reconnect. Whether I use wicd or connman, or a backported kernel + firmware-realtek, it's still the same. I migrated to Chimaera and replaced wicd with connman, and so far, my connection is more stable and reliable compared to Beowulf. I can suspend my system to RAM for 12 hours without worrying about my wifi never reconnecting again after waking up.

EDIT: Nevermind, my wifi still as unstable as before

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