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#1 Re: Installation » and now? » 2023-11-30 19:00:34


I did now, to continue to work, install Ubuntu-Noble (Ubuntu 04/24 also "experimental") from Extix, see my report on this forum! Not such Dung... Devuan is speedy to reproduce the errors and disturbs from Deebian ;-) ...

#2 Installation » and now? » 2023-11-30 18:57:04

Replies: 1

n this thread did I explain how the fantastic new decisions of the Debian/Devuan leaders to extract different part of the system, the

fsmithred wrote:

The rest of the warning about i915 probably says something about missing firmware. Installing firmware-misc-nonfree will likely fix it.

disturb now MAXIMAL the of such dependent of non-free firmware pc owners.

what comes now as result  for then following the fully official Debian / Devuan installations ISO's?

what gets the user at the end of that very long and antiquitated action:

a working linux at the one side or a disaster at the other side?


(within 30 years did Microsoft NEVER PRODUCE such disasters... Bravo guys from Debian and their blind Devuan admirers!)

#3 Re: Off-topic » test the new Extix iso 231123 a derivative from Debian w.Refractatools » 2023-11-29 14:33:18


after, in the precedent mssg, ~/.bash_history

now the

changed / add lines in /usr/jwm/system.jwmrc:

        <Program icon="appfinder" label="Appfinder">xfce4-appfinder</Program>
        <Program icon="utilities-terminal" label="Terminal">lxterminal</Program>
        <Program icon="run" label="Run application">grun</Program>
        <Program icon="editor" label="Editor">leafpad</Program>

        <Background type="image">/home/user/Pictures/penguin-eiffel-tower-7.jpg</Background>

#4 Re: Off-topic » test the new Extix iso 231123 a derivative from Debian w.Refractatools » 2023-11-29 14:28:45


sudo apt install menu 9menu gpm jwm ratpoison xfce4-appfinder grun hunspell hunspell-uk hunspell-de-ch hunspell-fr-revised seamonkey didiwiki xli mtpaint gtklp viewnior xsane tesseract-ocr gimagereader lame mhwaveedit xclip mgp abiword gnumeric nted darktable marble ucblogo swi-prolog elpa-ediprolog
sudo pad /etc/apt/sources.list
sudo apt-key adv --recv-keys --keyserver 2667CA5C
sudo apt install seamonkey-mozilla-build
sudo apt remove firefox
sudo ln -s /usr/share/hunspell /opt/seamonkey/dictionaries
sudo dpkg -i *deb
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/pcmanfm-qt /usr/bin/fm
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/startx /usr/bin/go
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/featherpad /usr/bin/pad
sudo ln -s /opt/seamonkey/seamonkey /usr/bin/seamonkey
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/lxterminal /usr/bin/term
sudo ln -s /opt/seamonkey/seamonkey /usr/bin/web
pad .bash_history
sudo apt upgrade
sudo apt update
setxkbmap in tam
setxkbmap us intl
xrandr -o left
xrandr -o normal
sudo fm
startx ratpoison
startx jwm
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/lxterminal /usr/bin/term
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/startx /usr/bin/go
pad .bash_history
sudo refractasnapshot
sudo gparted

#5 Re: Off-topic » test the new Extix iso 231123 a derivative from Debian w.Refractatools » 2023-11-29 14:23:13


I did just finish my new installation according following .bash_history (a adapted version of bash_history where the detail is erased: I use those to avoid to have to write a lot! I use the key <cursor up> to repeat the line I need again + ENTER to do it (eventually after small changes as for ex. some new name of document etc.)

see the list of packages added. all the stuff will become Ubuntu 24.04 in 1/2 year!

the size of the refractasnappshot is only 2.1 GB. it starts AND WORKS willing in 8 GB RAM (fantastic: a real speedy system! Ideal!) if you accept the time to start more than 3 minutes on my computer but it is really hardware dependent! You can remove the USB stick and use the free port!

it seems to use the 2. session (ALT+CTRL+F2).

With ALT+CTRL+F1 you can open the first one and start JWM wit

startx jwm

or using F3

startx ratpoison

and commute after that free between LXQT, JWM and RATPOISON (3 graphic sessions at the same time!)

(little problem: actually the menu from ratpoison is not complete).

You can install using the refractainstaller. It is better and more secure...

refracta2usb is also present (but until 3.6 .. 3.7 GB I prefer dd! I did prepare my usb memory card using dd).

as ubuntu, I did have the freedom to add the mozilla-build depository at sourceforge for seamonkey and did remove firedox ah ah ah!

the installation needs a bit more as 7 GB (plus, it is clear, the room for the managing the partition depending of it's size. Used are global 7,97 GB in an 30 GB partition.

#6 Re: Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-28 12:16:37

aluma wrote:

... they refuse all Linux ;-) !
small tinkers? ok ...

If about children and software.
My son is a professional video editor and director (state university, master class, etc.)
His work can be seen on our TV.
He prefer Mac for work.
If I were him, I would do the same; you can’t skimp on the tools you use to earn money.

I agree with your son... Our son is physician and a lot of then prefer also Mac because of the excellent name of Mac in graphic applications. But the German <Künstler> prefer Microsoft PC's (perhaps because of the lower prices than Apple hardware. Physician can often buy yet Apple if they are only students. Graphic specialists have often low budgets (like musicians).

#7 Re: Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-28 10:05:19

aluma wrote:
greenjeans wrote:
oui wrote:

my pc?

Dell Aptitude XT3 i7 4 cores 8GB Ram 1 TB

*laughs in 2-core @1ghz 4GB ram 300gb HD* wink

It depends on the task; on the dpreview forum, 16Gb RAM is not enough for photographers.

my older daughter did study at the German state Kunsthochschule and has the official state diploma.

... they refuse all Linux ;-) !
small tinkers? ok ...

#8 Re: Installation » how to get a team work between refractasnapshot and refracta2usb? » 2023-11-28 09:58:14

aluma wrote:

...I see, that to become out Refracta a real distribution, it would be important to begin to produce some lingual adapted versions, as in a other case it is only a cheap remaster of the real distribution Devuan...

It's Linux!
Nobody owes anyone anything, everyone does it for their own pleasure and our desires do not always coincide with the interests of the developers. Do it yourself, this is life, objective reality, I’m in the same position... smile

your answer is somekind as

YES, Linux has to be the desolation ;-)

ok, ok, ok!

it is really idiotic that thousands or millions, perhaps billion of users (think about China, India, Europe, far behind them but as a yet big block from not-speaking-English-only-at-all-any-more each individually translate the stuff and let Google and the network contribute for that! Did you never read about some CO2 damages caused by billions of only 1-line-emails? where is the sense of responsibility of  magnificent developers, and more from the managers of big distros as Debian?

#9 Re: Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-27 23:32:16

GlennW wrote:

You need to install the INTEL i915 firmware separately. It won't upgrade (auto update) if it's not installed, for your privacy and licensing.

thank you very much!

#10 Re: Installation » how to get a team work between refractasnapshot and refracta2usb? » 2023-11-27 21:01:03


oh! I DID NOT understand somewhat as that before today out the English menu... Thank you very much, dear fsmithred, for the clarification from today.

(I see, that to become out Refracta a real distribution, it would be important to begin to produce some lingual adapted versions, as in a other case it is only a cheap remaster of the real distribution Devuan, but I am sorry, with incomplete packages at the main depository as the translations and all the documentation are missing in other tongues... I think the linuxer s are not awake about the problem, that Linux, initially an European development, did become in all those year one of the most intolerant tools AGAINST ALL CULTURES in Europa not being some American Carpet although if now no one European Unionist Country belong any more to the community having only the language English.

Microsoft did NEVER try to destroy so heavily the other languages and cultures and it is natural that it did become and maintain great success against the respect less  Linux guy's!

I did learn a lot of languages: I write "my" English and see so as I would have no difficulty with that. It is only because I  speak perfect German an English (out the view of a French man) is a language out the German family (German would say exactly the contrary: English is a language out the French family... It is so! Both view are able), but did never learn it but Latin, Greek, German and Russian and I understand a lot of spoken Mandarin Chinese without to be able to read it). But Linux does not at all in the new time respect us. Germany did begin to learn English in the most German Kindergarten ab. 40 y. ago and later in schools until real -all-in-English-sections of the school! And English was yet a very known language in Germany in the time before those 40 y.! Theoretically, Germany would have to be now a really bi-lingual country. But a lot of Linux Forums NEED a German division to preserve her frequentation by German users (Germany did have an enormous impact on Linux: KDE, OpenOffice, Java, etc. came all from Germany! One of the 2 olderst Distros, Suse, was German)... That is the reality! And those DEBIAN, UBUNTU, ARCH etc. don't take care to preserve complete enough language branches in their new versions! They publish EMPTY new versions with canceled old software where the language branch was complete. Sorry... Linux kill itself! I am not an enemy of English, my children did frequent the English Kindergarten and speak both English like a mother tongue (without need: They did never use it really... It is so! And they are not alone in our family: Her cousin did be recognizable in Google view in front of the bank he was working in London a lot of y.! This cousin is now married with a English-Chinese woman and Canton Chinese is part of our family languages as well as Hungarian, and Italian).
No system you can not understand the speaking of can be good. And this will become dramatic for Europa, the start country of Linux, don't forget it...
(I refuse to use VLC because it did start in France, respect less for French doc's etc. Same thing for all Video technical of Linux started seriously in France. Ok, French people did abandon her good position in browser making, initially amaya for www, great inititiatives in xulrunner technical, the only one printed book on programming it, instantbird, composer etc. After Linux and his English comes in each country the desolation...)

#11 Re: Off-topic » test the new Extix iso 231123 a derivative from Debian w.Refractatools » 2023-11-27 18:34:44


extix has systemd and is more a derivate of Ubuntu as from Debian itself...

#12 Off-topic » test the new Extix iso 231123 a derivative from Debian w.Refractatools » 2023-11-27 18:33:28

Replies: 4

Puppy Linux adepts are dogs lover. The understand the specific name of such a distro :  «ONE bone»

Only the comfortable tools of Linux and one unique package (Firefox, I am sorry as I don't like FF!). But the rest is first class.

Try it and grow it until you own requirements!


(Critic: Exton, it is his pseudo at the forum of Puppy Linux, I don know under which pseudo he contributes here at the Devuan forum (he uses and defend the Refractatools so powerful as no one else! I am certain, he contributes also here!) did let doublets being not really useful like the usual terminals in a case where a better terminal is also integrated, and that in a kind of «one bone»! Why? Can Linux really not spring over it's own shadow? Never?)

#13 Re: Installation » how to get a team work between refractasnapshot and refracta2usb? » 2023-11-27 18:10:09


thank you greenjeans! yes, they are to much blades!

(what is the order-no. at amazon for this wonder as well as useful "man tool"?)

yes, I did understand, dear fsmithred and thank you for your very fine differentiate answer. but you did forget to write the solutions to each of the "determinations" (french: constatations). it would clarify the use of the damned English menu in refracta2usb (I did think about «maybe it would better for me to install refracta in Italian? Would it be not Italian but Spanish, I would have do it immediately as Spanish is some kind of French but a logical phonetic writing and Italian not, they use more completely different words...)

#14 Installation » how to get a team work between refractasnapshot and refracta2usb? » 2023-11-27 13:58:20

Replies: 9

get a team work between refractasnapshot and refracta2usb would sometimes simplify a lot the installation, for ex. if you will try to purge completely a lot of doublets (2..5 different editors! in 10 or 20 y. I did never use vi nor vim etc. I hate really geany because it opens new tabs and not new windows etc., more than one terminal, Why? If the one is bad, it don't has to be installed! VLC! Why? It is becoming now a MUST dependency in a lot of great software, where the goal is not really the job of such kind of viewer... This is a tentative to become to be a MONOPOLIST exactly like systemd etc. Webkit. 2 or 3 different levels installed in an installation! Why: very simply: software chaos... A lot of special fonts as MUST dependency! Use it to recognize bad soft not able to use the same as the other ;-) etc.).

This is a major reason why I work to propagate the idea of «justX» installations.

But in the menu of refracta2usb, I don't find really the item «copy snapshot > usb» although refractasnapshot is a well defined environment with it's own rules concerning directory etc.

how to do that more simple?

#15 Re: Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-27 13:21:37


JWM lover, do always

apt install menu jwm sakura xfce4-appfinder grun 

or eventually

apt install menu 9menu ratpoison jwm sakura xfce4-appfinder grun 

and look at /boot/grub/ for the exact name of the probably existing splash picture

then open /etc/jwm/system.jwmrc and change it:

1st change: replace the ...>terminal<... by ...>sakura< (if you like lxterminal etc., you can also use it if preinstalled in the distro!)

2d change: follow that example and integrate in a new next line xfce4-appfinder

3d change: idem with grun

4th change: idem with your actual file manager.

go now to a point next to the bottom of the same file and look for this line:

<Background type="solid">#111111</Background>

and change following 2 details:

<Background type="image">-the full path of your splash picture-</Background>

and after logout + restart, your JWM will be really better!

(you can of course also add 3 icones in the tray and/or move the tray from the bottom to top or left or right etc. Look a the section of system.jwrm concerning the tray in the middle. But you will have sometimes an hard job to find the good icons! It is a time killer operation sometimes...)

#16 Re: Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-27 12:56:51


yesterday, as I did add menu + jwm in all my actual installations (refracta, extix, emmabuntüs, etc.) because the session manager itself from XFCE4 is to stupid to open and show a menu on each point of the screen, I did try with a CTRL+ALT+F2 (see above, I did write for ratpoison F3 ! it was not an error or fortuity ;-) ) and did play with Refracta. And did use above command startx jwm in this case. And? JWM did start and it was possible to have AT THE SAME TIME IN PARALLEL 2 Sessions managers, XFCE4 under ctrl+alt+F1 and JWM ctrl+alt+F2 and so 2 (TWO) active graphic sessions at the same time and interchange using ctrl+alt+F'n' between both as often someone want!

this was not possible today with ratpoison. Schade eigentlich / en fait, dommage...

#17 Re: Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-27 12:42:08


thank you very much for following tips

ralph.ronnquist wrote:

And of course Debain bookworm, which underpins Devuan daedalus, had that major repository change of moving all firmware into the new non-free-firmware section. That change still causes confusion for everyone who whould expect only the traditional repository point changes at an upgrade.

In other words, there need to be a sources.list line naming the non-free-firmware section, e.g. by itself, like:

deb daedalus non-free-firmware

or together with other sections, for example like

deb daedalus main contrib non-free-firmware

All Devuan derivatives are likely to have the same issue.

I did add the line and apt update did integrate the content.

but it is certainly NOT enough: out the sight of apt is all ok so - il will with the integration of the separate depository no new kernel / kernel environment because apt has nothing to upgrade.

for this reason, I did use an other solution:

sudo apt install 9menu ratpoison

and after a CRTL+APT+F3 one

startx ratpoison

but, last time I did have problems with the mouse / mouse cursor YEAAAAAAAAAAAARS ago I have to learn again all the ratpoison system. CTRL+. and CTRL+? (that is important, it is the door to the rest ah ah ah!), and

as XFCE4 is preinstalled in the screen of ratpoison one


and that, that is completely new for me, a very new impression (like today astronomers have looking at the pictures from satellite JAMES WEB probably): ratpoison with the power of an xfce4-appfinder (I use it also under jwm: the thumbprint of xfce4-appfinder is ridiculous low, also if no other xfce4 package is used, compared with the gain of power given bei appfinder to jwm)!

it would be better, of course, to add it in lightDM but lightDM seems to be to stupid to cooperate... or is somewhat to do to permit lightDM can do that ;-) ?

#18 Re: Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-26 21:51:24


Thank you very much and ok, it can be an explanation!

I am aware that my PC is very old for the reason I didn't found some successor (it has also no USB 3.1 but 2 poor old slow ones, but I can live with the slow USB, no problem excepted I can't use some giant memory sticks over 1/2 TB).

I found no successor because the box with the full returnable (transformer where the touch screen can be on the top and work also if the lap from laptop is closed) screen offers actually no laptop in the (usual) commerce in Germany where I live.

but what has that with the command of the cursor at the screen to do, IF

ONLY vmlinuz-6.6.X  disturb (excepted vmlinuz-6.6.1-amd64-exton from extix disturbs

BUT NEVER  vmlinuz-6.5.x.

More: can a BAD kernel push the PC in an operative mode, where effective the component begin to suffer and begin to not stay operable any more after a certain time of suche bad treatments?

(On ALL installations of Devuan / Devuan derivatives, at the end of the installation, the system claims somewhat (I don't understand in English, to much lines, concerning some i915.  This happens NOT with Debian or derivatives (emmabuntüs, Deepin, Ubuntu, the collection of distros from / Exton. Somewhat is probablably very different in Devuan. Is that a matter of the starting system, or produces the removing ot systemd / different kernel addings such a side effect?
Note: Linux did never like DELL; With old Dell Pc's and their Intel chips I did have to renounce to use ubuntu long years!!!)

#19 Re: Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-26 18:47:47


my pc?

Dell Aptitude XT3 i7 4 cores 8GB Ram 1 TB

#20 Installation » all the new kernel disturb some old PC's! » 2023-11-26 18:46:43

Replies: 19

I did install the new Refracta on my PC.

exactly so as it is ;-)  (no manipulation from me!!!! only install, and finish!)

it is the Refracta 32 bit (I am a 32-BIT-DEFENDER!!! It is VERY MORE IMPORTANT AS SYSTEMD!!!! YOU ARE SLEEPING, ALL!!!!! Why? Because BILLIONS of old PC exist to avoid that the humanity crush into POOR-PC-OWNERS and SUPER-RICH-PC-OWNERS! Corona did reveal: The humanity NEEDS URGENTLY THE OLD 32-bit-PC's. NO  O N E  COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, where PC would be enough out the sight of the educators and social workers making that old poor people can access some internet...).

UBUNTU is a shame! UBUNTU is kind of a super rich man!

But, now...

... I have Refracta 32 on my HD and it does not work... Why? Some major routine draw IN X the cursor position to (on my PC exactly the point where) the position of the icon in the top bar for the 1st of the 4 openable windows... As xfce4 is a sh.... reduced system, you are catch: you can't go out the system because xfce4 opens only the full menu in one position: far of the point!

I did change the instance using CTRL+ALT+F2 and with a magistral

sudo apt install menu jwm

install an alternative sessions manager, the poor jwm, yes, but it is able to open some legal menu on the ALL SURFACE of the windows!

and, now,

with CTRL+ALT+F2 and later CTRL+ALT+F1 I have my FIRST LINUX having really 2 different session managers in use, XFCE4, the poor handicaped manager, and JWM, the super cool sportler, able to open the menu on ALL THE SURFACE OF SCREEN!

(I did experiment the same manipulation with a 3th Sessions-Manager, LXQT. LXQt did install, but will not start after CTRL+ALT+F3 . Ok, actually, I must accept (it is not my main problem!!!).

Now, my problem (the real MAIN problem):

all new kernels seems to be corrupt for old PC's!

nothing helps...

I would need an old kernel, so easy is the solution!

but how to install an old kernel using my normal depository (the depository defined by the system itself)?

#21 Re: Devuan » Making Devuan widely use » 2023-11-24 07:52:09


Note: You will probably need to compile a lot yourself and we will meet you soon here ! Good luck...

#22 Re: Installation » an idea how2 start the installation's ISO from Debian/Devuan from RAM? » 2023-11-23 10:36:24


Thank you very much! Yes, the thematic and the ideas are top. And I am happy, the origin of that activity came from France and the long pages are for this reason in French (I continue to have difficulties to read really without toil English! Short texts, yes, but long texts more or less no!).

In the French texts I did read at different places warnings against erasing of data or, more terrible, complete disks... brrrrrrr...

yes, the Debian installer is really stupid!

To much things are included being very critical:

- preparation of the harddisk (compare with Refracta installer: The Refracta installer is absolutely prudent! It suggere to prepare separately the disk and offer exactly for that a choice item!

- installation of boot without to show to the user the content of the decisive document (the prepared grub.cfg!) before to activate it! It is always the surprise!!! Poor Debian...

(The Grub2 is the worst evolution of the last years...)

#23 Re: Installation » an idea how2 start the installation's ISO from Debian/Devuan from RAM? » 2023-11-22 21:53:31


Yes, I know, it would probably be better for me to start using debootstrap but I remember a lot of time required to setup the right settings after the installation and I would like to set up so,  that not only my situation is taking in consideration but so that I can transmit later the snapshot.iso to other and that is a next job!

perhaps better with that: ?

#24 Re: Installation » Minimum disk space for newinstall ? » 2023-11-22 21:30:40


The need of room fluctuate enormous depending of

- the stuff (quantity) you will install
- the method you use to work (you can accumulate a big qty of stuff, but start your linux live after shrinking it extremely in the rapport 3:1 and have a fast system with all, but fixed: you can use but not change it as well as the stuff!)

The average Linux system is today somewhat with a size 10..30 TB only! If you decide 120 TB, you have 90 TB for nothing (*1

(Very interesting is also your USB connection. I have for ex. 4 laptops with i7's (1 with 7 cores and I think only 4 cores in the other ones) but 2 as DELL Aptitude XT3 with «transformer» screenlap (touchscreen). It is not easy to get such a configuation so I have to accept to continue to use old hardware. The USB-connectors are nothing good. I can't use some usb-card with 1..2 TB capacity on then... As I see you have a powerful PC: You have probably ABSOLUTE no change to do excepted perhaps in the BIOS to read as first the USB3.1 or else, and can host your live system directly in your 32 GB RAM if you want!)

(*1 excepted if you need room for ex. to make refractasnapshot: you have to take in consideration the room needing to store the temporary data concerning ALL the content of the partition excepted your "excludes"! See Refracta information!!!

#25 Installation » how2 realize for the time of the first-installation a own *.deb-depot » 2023-11-22 21:15:38

Replies: 4

to include own packages prepared in the standard DEB format to the installation using the usual /usr/apt/sources.list

example in an other distro:

in Slitaz, for ex. can you use all the contents of /var/www are automatically stored so they can be acceded by the url http://localhost/... ;-)

more simple is not possible!

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