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igorzwx

Member

Registered: 2024-05-06

Posts: 473  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

Midi over web doesn't require any special configuration to my knowledge...
Soundfonts and software synths aren't necessary for midi over web.

Here is some info about the TomPlay mechanisms that I am using

Tomplay appears to be primarily a paid subscription service. Do they offer user support?

Tomplay is a commercial sheet music app... If you run into trouble using the Tomplay web interface on a Linux browser, why not get in touch with their team for help with account or score-related matters?

Tomplay help documentation
_https://tomplay.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/9259936173980-I-want-to-connect-my-digital-instrument-to-my-device-using-Tomplay-What-should-I-do

Note that Tomplay, for the moment, does not support MIDI connection, all the audio backing tracks we offer are real recordings by professional musicians.

Why do you think you're having a "MIDI over web" issue? Tomplay doesn't use MIDI at all — it relies on real audio recordings, not MIDI signals, so there's no MIDI connection to troubleshoot in the first place.

Last edited by igorzwx (Yesterday 13:53:55)

devuan_dk_fan

Member

Registered: 2018-01-10

Posts: 155  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

Tomplay appears to be primarily a paid subscription service. Do they offer user support?

Tomplay is a commercial sheet music app... If you run into trouble using the Tomplay web interface on a Linux browser, why not get in touch with their team for help with account or score-related matters?

Linux isn't officially supported...

Why do you think you're having a "MIDI over web" issue? Tomplay doesn't use MIDI at all — it relies on real audio recordings, not MIDI signals, so there's no MIDI connection to troubleshoot in the first place.

It isn't easy to get information on the technology, when they don't support Linux. I am only using it for woodwind instrumets at this time, not sure what their keyboard support is like. I don't know how much difference there is between web audio and web midi api's other than "audio" and "midi" in the names of the api's. I know that flowkey.com uses midi over web.

I have been looking at https://webaudio.github.io/demo-list/ and https://www.worteldrie.com/WD5/ to get a grasp on the technology.

If we make the assumption that I have been looking in the wrong direction, or calling the technology incorrectly, shouldn't web audio still work with Alsa (again referring to my other post)?

Last edited by devuan_dk_fan (Yesterday 16:53:50)

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Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx
I’ve had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn’t it. - Groucho Marx

igorzwx

Member

Registered: 2024-05-06

Posts: 473  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

Let’s assume it’s always worth reading the documentation, even if you presumably know everything. Have you had a go at reading up on ALSA over on the Devuan forum?

steve_v

Member

Registered: 2018-01-11

Posts: 634  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

Works with Waterfox, but not LibreWolf. On the Chrome side, I know that Chrome, Edge and Chromium work

Then your problem is almost certainly the anti-fingerprinting "hardening" Librewolf applies, and you'd be best asking in their support channels. I would not be at all surprised if Librewolf blocks APIs used to probe audio hardware for "privacy" reasons.

It is all in the web browser
...
Soundfonts and software synths aren't necessary

does not support MIDI connection, all the audio backing tracks we offer are real recordings

No synth, no hardware MIDI port or passthrough support == not MIDI, just playing audio clips in the browser.

If you want an actual MIDI sequencer, with notation editor and support for hardware MIDI connections to real instruments, I recommend rosegarden.
If you're set on $commercial_web_app, then you'll probably have to go through $commercial_support. Tomplay doesn't do anything with MIDI, and as far as I can tell Flowkey uses their own proprietary browser extension.
The chances of anyone else in here being familiar enough with those products (and on an "unsupported" platform at that) to offer support are slim.

To return to your original question:

what you describe now seems like it may be a timing issue during start-up?

I agree. Either that or something is grabbing the raw ALSA device before pipewire gets it.

I will try to take a look.

So, what did you see?
Which one of the many confusing unofficial user-contributed solutions (still all we have ) are you using to start pipewire?

In general, I suggest the upstream documentation and the Gentoo wiki for pipewire information (since Devuan has effectively none), taking note of things like:

There is no standardized non-systemd way to start PipeWire services - pipewire, pipewire-pulse and wireplumber - when starting a graphical shell, and users need to choose the correct approach based on how their graphical environment is started.

and:

Important
PipeWire must be started before anything that might try to connect to any sound input or output, such as a volume monitoring applet.

Last edited by steve_v (Today 01:34:34)

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Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

devuan_dk_fan

Member

Registered: 2018-01-10

Posts: 155  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

Hi steve_v and thanks for the reply. Now I understand the context for greenjeans comment. I used the first solution for installing and implementing pipewire that fsmithred directed my attention to at https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=5867. That is stopAI's:

$ sudo apt-get install pipewire-audio

$ touch ~/.xsessionrc

$ echo "wireplumber &

pipewire &

pipewire-pulse &" > ~/.xsessionrc

$ sudo apt-get install pavucontrol

Interestingly, I have not been affected again with all of the physical audio devices disappearing from the system audio (pavucontrol, control panel, applett).

Thanks for the clarification regarding Tomplay and Flowkey. Last time that I used Flowkey, using the extension was no longer necessary, although it is a good question what the status is today.

LibreWolf not working with those two website services isn't an issue as long as I have working alternatives.

Noted regarding Rosegarden, although at this point, I am simply trying to improve my chops with these online services. However, I know that they don't replace playing with other musicians, which is what I am trying to work towards.

Last edited by devuan_dk_fan (Today 07:52:13)

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Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. - Groucho Marx
I’ve had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn’t it. - Groucho Marx

steve_v

Member

Registered: 2018-01-11

Posts: 634  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

I just pointed you to how to fix that racy startup script, but since one of the admins is apparently quietly deleting my posts (or this forum is just a buggy mess, which is also possible) I guess we'll have to imagine it. Short version: read that thread more, the first "solution" is highly unreliable.
What a lovely board this is.

Last edited by steve_v (Today 10:07:47)

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Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

fsmithred

Administrator

Registered: 2016-11-25

Posts: 2,816  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

Yeah, when I said "Pick one" I didn't mean pick post #1 in that thread. There are several better choices. I went with the easiest one https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=47569#p47569 using daemon. (thanks, steve_v).

I've tried it with three separate scripts and with all three lines in one script, and it works either way. It will also work if you start it in console and keep working if you use startx. For most cases, just make it executable, put it in your path and add it to your desktop's startup applications.

steve_v

Member

Registered: 2018-01-11

Posts: 634  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

thanks

You are most welcome.
FWIW, the version of daemon in excalibur should be new enough to support --bind, so later comments regards backporting are obsolete.
Also FWIW, you can put some of the repetitive malarkey in those commands (e.g. pidfiles=[whatever]) in /etc/daemon.conf or ~/.daemonrc, which makes later use to list / control managed daemons a bit nicer.
Check out the manual, for such a tiny and obscure tool daemon is pretty swish - chroots, environment control, ptys, the works.

Last edited by steve_v (Today 15:13:10)

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Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

ralph.ronnquist

Administrator

From: Battery Point, Tasmania, AUS

Registered: 2016-11-30

Posts: 1,590  

Re: Devuan Excalibur install and Pipewire.

Note that Devuan experimantal also includes turnstile which also is in the NEW queue for a Debian build.

Standalone login/session tracker
aims to serve as a fully featured alternative to the logind subproject from systemd, and to provide a neutral API to both our session tracker and to logind itself. Currently it offers:
- session/login tracker
- a service-manager-agnostic way to manage per-user service managers for user services