ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

igorzwx · 2025-11-05 17:06:33

Your ALSA is not pure, To get pure ALSA, you have to purge pulseaudio from libasound2-plugins
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=7523

It is not enough to remove pulseaudio, you have to remove other crap to get "pure alsa".

Mate sound applet works with ALSA without problems.

EQ is needed for semi-deaf users to enhance high frequencies.

Last edited by igorzwx (2025-11-05 17:12:03)

greenjeans · 2025-11-05 17:25:46

My Alsa is fine, thanks. Sounds great in fact, sitting here listening to Iron Maiden right now, as the artists intended it to sound.

An EQ is for evening out the frequency response to match the inverse of their personal Fletcher-Munson curve, which of course differs in all individuals as much or more than their fingerprints do. This is basic simple stuff every real tech learns year one.

I believe in giving a user the choice to decide for themselves what to install, my job in my projects is simply to give them a solid working base to build on.

igorzwx · 2025-11-05 17:41:00

Because of your personal Fletcher-Munson curve you may not hear the difference between your ALSA and pure ALSA

greenjeans · 2025-11-06 01:28:41

FYI to all reading you do NOT have to install or compile various random github packages to have a working Alsa system or to have it sound good, or to have sound in Firefox. Don't blithely accept one or another individual's nonsense about what should sound best for you... judge for yourselves.

There is music, created by an artist, then there's you. Discretion is required for anyone you let get between you and that music. Ask yourself; are they an artist? Are they an engineer? Are they a sound technician? Or are they some random person who writes (or merely copy/pastes) code and puts it on the internet and tries to convince you that your hearing is flawed if you don't agree with their perception?

igorzwx · 2025-11-06 02:07:23

If pulseaudio is removed, the PulseAudio ALSA plugin sits at the ALSA library level, intercepting all audio calls system-wide. This means every application that tries to use ALSA will encounter the broken plugin trying to route audio through the non-existent PulseAudio server. The leftover plugin blocks exclusive mode access and causes audio failures, making it impossible to achieve the low-latency, direct hardware access that removing PulseAudio was meant to enable.

This does affect sound quality, but semi-deaf artists might be perfectly happy with such a "fine ALSA".

bai4Iej2need · 2025-11-06 09:08:29

from https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=59154#p59154

@greenjeans : Thank You for the advice. I will test that in a VM before next steps.

Last edited by bai4Iej2need (2025-11-06 09:08:41)

greenjeans · 2025-11-06 16:44:16

If pulseaudio is removed, the PulseAudio ALSA plugin sits at the ALSA library level, intercepting all audio calls system-wide. This means every application that tries to use ALSA will encounter the broken plugin trying to route audio through the non-existent PulseAudio server.

No it doesn't, that's a myth. Alsa doesn't do squat unless you tell it to, so unless you've explicitly called pulse in a conf file, that plugin won't do anything. There's several plugins in that package like Jack in addition to Pulse, are you claiming that all of them are "intercepting" or is it just pulse that has you paranoid?

Your whole gig is basically a solution looking for a problem.

My Alsa is arguably "purer" than yours simply because there has been no mucking about with re-compiling plugins to remove functionality and sample-rate hacking. And it's going to stay that way.

igorzwx · 2025-11-06 20:23:49

If believe that the PulseAudio ALSA plugin is harmless, you may also try believe that you have a "bit perfect" playback, unless you've explicitly enabled resampling in a conf file.

greenjeans · 2025-11-06 20:42:03

I wouldn't call anything to do with Pulse harmless, I dislike it as much as you do, but in this case it's not doing anything Igor. Nothing wrong with going to the lengths you have gone to, but it's based on a false premise, and so in effect you're posting a false alarm with incorrect data.

I'm not trying for bit-perfect anything here, i'll leave stuff like that to the audio forums and people with novel-length .asoundrc's.

If it bugs a person that much, you can probably get rid of it a lot easier by just deleting the 2 pulse .so files in the alsa-lib folder, lol.

In any case, the only reason I posted in your thread the last couple days is because another user tagged me and asked a question, so I answered it and now i'll leave you to it and not bother you anymore today.

Last edited by greenjeans (2025-11-06 20:51:38)

ralph.ronnquist · 2025-11-06 22:12:03

Nowadays we also have the pipewire-alsa package that does the same as pulseaudio-alsa but directing to pipewire instead.

kapqa · 2025-11-06 22:50:20

@ralph.ronnquist if zou try this command on devuan 6 to remove pulse-pipewire as suggested

https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=49837#p49837

you will get "encouraged" to remove it , otherwise the command wont function; that was my experience today if not mistaken.

Danielsan · 2025-11-07 18:31:24

Once I remember to use a basic settings to have a fully functional audio:

pcm.!default {
    type plug
    slave.pcm "dmixer"
}

pcm.dmixer  {
     type dmix
     ipc_key 1024
     slave {
        pcm "hw:1,0"
        period_time 0
        period_size 1024
        buffer_size 4096
        rate 44100
    }
    bindings {
        0 0
        1 1
    }
}

ctl.dmixer {
    type hw
    card 1
}

Last edited by Danielsan (2025-11-07 18:31:47)

igorzwx · 2025-11-09 16:35:57

@Danielsan

Don't you know that Debian/Devuan has already a very advanced dmix "configured with sane defaults"?

If you propose an alternative config, you may try to explain why your config is better than the default dmix config of Debian.

Debian/Devuan Defaults:

defaults.pcm.dmix.rate 48000
defaults.pcm.card 0
defaults.pcm.device 0

If you need 44.1 kHz sample rate and "card 1", you can set them in ~/.asoundrc

$ cat ~/.asoundrc
defaults.pcm.dmix.rate 44100
defaults.pcm.card 1

These two lines are enough to set "default card" and default sample rate. A self-made dmix config is not needed.

Gentoo Wiki: ALSA: Configuration
When multiple sound cards are in use, the device numbers could be reordered across boots, such that using a name is advantageous.
If the correct name is unclear, a list of valid names can be easily obtained with:
cat /sys/class/sound/card*/id
Here is output from a developer's system that has multiple sound cards:
$ cat /sys/class/sound/card*/id
Q1U
HDMI
PCH
C930e
Here we have the Q1U microphone as Q1U, the builtin HDMI as HDMI, the analog audio jacks as PCH and a webcam's builtin microphone as C930e. Any of these are valid names for the card.
! Warning
Specifying numbers instead of names when multiple sound cards are used can result in device reordering across boots, which will prevent sound from working properly until the configuration file is edited to use the new number.
_https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/ALSA#Configuration

Last edited by igorzwx (2025-11-09 23:27:45)

Danielsan · Yesterday 13:47:02

I was totally unaware about this, since pulse is set by default in Debian I was convinced audio was handled by it even in Devuan.

I just shared an old config I haven't used in years...

Last edited by Danielsan (Yesterday 13:56:41)

igorzwx · Yesterday 14:17:14

It seems to be a sort of "secret software mixer". It is not difficult to prove that it does exist, and it is enabled. See: _https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=7538

You may also try secret esoteric commands like these:

$ echo "Debian Default Sample Rate:  $(grep -r "defaults.pcm.dmix.rate" /usr/share/alsa/ | grep ":defaults" | cut -d\  -f2-) Hz"
Debian Default Sample Rate:  48000 Hz

$ grep -rE "defaults.pcm.dmix.rate|defaults.pcm.card|defaults.pcm.device" /usr/share/alsa/ | grep -E ":defaults.pcm.dmix.rate|:defaults.pcm.card|:defaults.pcm.device" | cut -d: -f2-
defaults.pcm.card 0
defaults.pcm.device 0
defaults.pcm.dmix.rate 48000

Danielsan · Yesterday 14:58:40

I saw there is a conf file but it is not active:

s -l /etc/alsa/conf.d/
total 4
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  44 Jul 29  2024 10-rate-lav.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/10-rate-lav.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  46 Jul 29  2024 10-samplerate.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/10-samplerate.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  45 Jul 29  2024 10-speexrate.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/10-speexrate.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  48 Jul 29  2024 50-arcam-av-ctl.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/50-arcam-av-ctl.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  40 Jul 29  2024 50-jack.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/50-jack.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  39 Jul 29  2024 50-oss.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/50-oss.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  46 Jul 29  2024 50-pulseaudio.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/50-pulseaudio.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  47 Jul 29  2024 60-a52-encoder.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/60-a52-encoder.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  41 Jul 29  2024 60-speex.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/60-speex.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  41 Jul 29  2024 60-upmix.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/60-upmix.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  44 Jul 29  2024 60-vdownmix.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/60-vdownmix.conf
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  46 Jul 29  2024 98-usb-stream.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/98-usb-stream.conf
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 201 Jul  5  2022 99-pulseaudio-default.conf.example
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  38 Mar  9  2025 99-pulse.conf -> /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/pulse.conf

igorzwx · Yesterday 15:12:43

The secret configs are here: /usr/share/alsa/

$ grep -r "defaults.pcm.dmix.rate" /usr/share/alsa/
/usr/share/alsa/pcm/dsnoop.conf:			name defaults.pcm.dmix.rate
/usr/share/alsa/pcm/dmix.conf:			name defaults.pcm.dmix.rate
/usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf:defaults.pcm.dmix.rate 48000

Debian Wiki:
Advanced features such as mixing should already be configured with sane defaults.
_https://wiki.debian.org/ALSA#Configuration

Last edited by igorzwx (Yesterday 15:14:13)

Danielsan · Yesterday 15:23:57

Thanks good to know... The only limits I remember with dmix/alsa was the inability to switch from internal audio to hdmi audio, and thus I had to invoke a custom script shell, but for my battle laptop I could get rid off of both pulse and pipewire though... 🤔

igorzwx · Yesterday 15:41:48

A simple script to toggle ALSA configs:
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=56780#p56780

Remove pulse, pipewire, and pulse plugin
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=7523

Install fftrate
_https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=7142

Run arateconf to configure ALSA

$ cat ~/.asoundrc
# ALSA library configuration file managed by arateconf.
#
# MANUAL CHANGES TO THIS FILE WILL BE OVERWRITTEN!
#
# Manual changes to the ALSA library configuration should be implemented
# by editing the ~/.asoundrc file, not by editing this file.

#=====================================================
# Configuration for system
#-----------------------------------------------------

# Perform dmixer
pcm.dmixer_system
{
	type			dmix
	ipc_key			1024
	ipc_perm		0666

	hint
	{
		show		off
		description	"Direct mixing of multiple audio streams (system)"
	}

	slave
	{
		pcm		"hw:system,0"

		rate		48000
		channels	2
		format		S16_LE

		period_size	1920
		buffer_size	7680
	}
}

# Perform dsnooper
pcm.dsnooper_system
{
	type			dsnoop
	ipc_key			1025
	ipc_perm		0666

	hint
	{
		show		off
		description	"Recording from the same device for several applications simultaneously (system)"
	}

	slave
	{
		pcm		"hw:system,0"

		rate		48000
		format		S16_LE

		period_size	1920
		buffer_size	7680
	}
}

# Perform duplex
pcm.duplex_system
{
	type			asym
	playback.pcm		"dmixer_system"
	capture.pcm		"dsnooper_system"

	hint
	{
		show		off
		description	"Full duplex for simultaneous playback and recording (system)"
	}
}

# Perform convert
pcm.convert_system
{
	type			rate
	converter		fftrate

	hint
	{
		show		off
		description	"Sample rate converter (system)"
	}

	slave
	{
		pcm	"duplex_system"
		rate	48000
		format	S16_LE
	}
}

# Perform plug device
pcm.primary_system
{
	type			plug
	slave.pcm		"convert_system"
	hint.description	"Default device (system)"
}

#=====================================================
# Configuration for PCH
#-----------------------------------------------------

# Perform dmixer
pcm.dmixer_PCH
{
	type			dmix
	ipc_key			1026
	ipc_perm		0666

	hint
	{
		show		off
		description	"Direct mixing of multiple audio streams (PCH)"
	}

	slave
	{
		pcm		"hw:PCH,0"

		rate		192000
		channels	2
		format		S32_LE

		period_size	7680
		buffer_size	30720
	}
}

# Perform dsnooper
pcm.dsnooper_PCH
{
	type			dsnoop
	ipc_key			1027
	ipc_perm		0666

	hint
	{
		show		off
		description	"Recording from the same device for several applications simultaneously (PCH)"
	}

	slave
	{
		pcm		"hw:PCH,0"

		rate		192000
		format		S32_LE

		period_size	7680
		buffer_size	30720
	}
}

# Perform duplex
pcm.duplex_PCH
{
	type			asym
	playback.pcm		"dmixer_PCH"
	capture.pcm		"dsnooper_PCH"

	hint
	{
		show		off
		description	"Full duplex for simultaneous playback and recording (PCH)"
	}
}

# Perform convert
pcm.convert_PCH
{
	type			rate
	converter		fftrate

	hint
	{
		show		off
		description	"Sample rate converter (PCH)"
	}

	slave
	{
		pcm	"duplex_PCH"
		rate	192000
		format	S32_LE
	}
}

#=====================================================
# Configuration for default audio device
#-----------------------------------------------------

# Perform plug device
pcm.!default
{
	type			plug
	slave.pcm		"convert_PCH"
	hint.description	"Default device"
}

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#26 2025-11-05 17:06:33

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#27 2025-11-05 17:25:46

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#28 2025-11-05 17:41:00

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#29 2025-11-06 01:28:41

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#30 2025-11-06 02:07:23

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#31 2025-11-06 09:08:29

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#32 2025-11-06 16:44:16

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#33 2025-11-06 20:23:49

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#34 2025-11-06 20:42:03

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#35 2025-11-06 22:12:03

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#36 2025-11-06 22:50:20

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#37 2025-11-07 18:31:24

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#38 2025-11-09 16:35:57

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#39 Yesterday 13:47:02

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#40 Yesterday 14:17:14

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#41 Yesterday 14:58:40

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#42 Yesterday 15:12:43

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#43 Yesterday 15:23:57

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

#44 Yesterday 15:41:48

Re: ALSA without PulseAudio and PipeWire

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