Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

RedGreen925 · 2025-09-23 14:29:01

IIRC upstream stopped doing any serious work on it somewhere around 2003.

You are off by half a decade 2008 was the year they released that steaming pile of dung that was KDE4 and dumped the previous version. The same year I dumped it and started with a hackintosh with OSX Leopard the first possible to run on intel hardware. Which I had the exact board they used to develop it on after buying and selling a couple of PPC Macs and using that profit to build good fast computer. After finding they had indeed earned their slow, loud, noisy and hot running reputation honestly.

igorzwx · 2025-09-23 15:12:51

2008 was the year Ubuntu was infected with pulseaudio.

_https://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?t=2099
Originally Posted by _http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/10/pulse-my-audio.html
Thursday, October 2, 2008
Pulse my audio
I was saving this one until this article became free on LWN.net. It's awesomeness is truly unparalleled.
Let me attempt to summarize.
A) PulseAudio needs to work with existing applications, so it implements an ALSA emulation layer, except, it's not complete. Only 70% of ALSA applications work. So it's like, totally ready.
B) So, in the true open source fashion, you should port your app to be a native PulseAudio client. Except that you can't. There's this yet-another-audio-library called libsidney, but it's not ready yet. (Hmm, this sounds familiar...)
C) Fedora led the way in incorporating PulseAudio before it was ready, breaking audio for thousands of users. Then because open source is about copying good ideas and bad ones, a ton of other distros adopted it as well. Amazing guys. In a way, you've spread bad code that breaks audio on thousands of computers faster than a virus could have. And it's immune to antivirus!
D) so now that we're in this "mess" (as the lead developer of PulseAudio calls it*), LSB comes along and says "we're going to standardize how your write audio apps!" Oh, but wait, ALSA's now "old" (we hardly knew ye), and I can't directly program PulseAudio. Hmm... So the article's brilliant solution? Standardize on the PulseAudio-safe subset of ALSA.
WHAT THE FUCK.
I can just imagine the future alsa man page. A big listing of functions, with a nice little asterisk next to those functions that you shouldn't use unless you want your app to totally FAIL on a system which has been sodomized by Pulse Audio. I can just see the developers of commercial Linux sound apps (all three of them) jumping for joy.
And thus unfolds another chapter in long history of failed sound systems on Linux. Can they make it much worse? I, for one, am excited to see how much worse they can make it until we all go back to listening to square waves on our PC speakers.
* BTW, also notice that it's the PulseAudio guy calling Linux audio a mess. Did he forget that it was his project that took the existing mess, and unloaded a giant steaming turd on it? Congratufuckinglations. You've just made it worse. You're a truly a worthy OSS contributor.

Last edited by igorzwx (2025-09-23 15:25:07)

RedGreen925 · 2025-09-23 18:42:34

PulseAudio guy calling Linux audio a mess. Did he forget that it was his project that took the existing mess, and unloaded a giant steaming turd on it?

That would be the same serial offending asshole who has brought us the systemd garbage as well.

igorzwx · 2025-09-23 18:47:39

Yes, of course. It was his infamous article in LWN.net about Linux audio.

"Pulse my audio" was a response to that article:

I was saving this one until this article became free on LWN.net. It's awesomeness is truly unparalleled.

Another post was about bug trackers:

One bug report to rule them all
Posted Monday, August 4, 2008 @ 1:32 PM. ? FLAMES
Whatup y'all. I hope I haven't worn out all those refresh buttons on your browsers. Just because I don't post for a few days, y'all want to declare the death of this blog? You wish.
Anyways, today I'm talkin' about one of the community's crown jewels: bug trackers. We've heard it all before. Open bug tracking increases collaboration, transparency, and saves lives of poor, hungry children, etc.
But guess what? take a look at the bug trackers out there. They're mostly full of hogwash. Most of the bug reports go something like this...
Johnny User writes...
Hi. I'm trying to use ellipticaljerk-0.3.2, but my speakers make a farting sound when I click the jerk button. Then it crashes. Is this a bug?
Sammy Developer writes...
Hi Johnny. The jerk button works for me.
Bug status updated: CLOSED - USER ERROR
Sally User writes...
I'm also seeing this problem. These farting noises suck.
Bug status updated: REOPENED
Sammy Developer writes...
Ok, fine. Could you give me some more information? A backtrace maybe?
Johnny User writes...
What's a backtrace?
Sammy Developer writes...
It tells me where the problem is. You need to make sure you have debugging symbols installed. Also please tell me which compiler, which glibc, and which libjerk you are using.
Johnny User writes...
What are debugging symbols? How do I figure out all this information?
Sally User writes...
Johnny, I know what Sammy is asking for. Here's the info:
gcc-4.1.3
glibc-2.5.1
libjerk-0.8a

backtrace:

:

:
Sammy User writes...
Thanks Sally. Except that I can't reproduce this bug. But I'm using glibc-2.5.2 beta and libjerk-cvs
Sally User writes...
I don't know how to use the versions you talk of. And besides, this is how it behaves on Ubuntu. I don't care about how it works on your computer. It is broken in Ubuntu Masturbating Monkey.
Joe User writes...
OMG, I'm so glad I found this report. I think I have a related problem. I'm
trying to play videos using mplayer for my wife, but she farts in my face
everytime I have to look at the man page to remember the options. Here's my
xorg.conf. Could you help me?
:
:
(A huge long xorg.conf that makes a bug page a huge pain to navigate)
:
:
Sammy Developer writes...
Joe, you need to file a separate bug for that.
Johnny User writes...
When will this bug be fixed? I thought Open Sauce meant that if I report the bug, it'll get fixed
Sammy Developer writes...
Johnny, I can't reproduce it. Feel free to send me a patch
(a few months later) Sammy Developer writes...
Upstream libjerk-0.9 fixes this problem.
Bug status updated: FIXED
(6 months later) Johnny User writes...
I just updated to Ubuntu Naughty Nutgoblin, and this broke again...
Sammy Developer writes...
It works for me. It must be Ubuntu's fault. I don't know what patches they
apply, so please file a bug with them.
Bug status updated: WON'T FIX
Joe User writes...
What about my bug? Will you please fix it? My wife is still farting at me.
Yep. That sounds about right to me. Open bug trackers are filled with so much noise that there's a constant call for "triagers", which really are zealous volunteers suckered into cleaning out the accumulated crap.* Meanwhile, all the noise hides the real issues, causes developers to get frustrated, and slows progress. It's no wonder companies rarely open up their bug trackers. If you do, you're just asking for it.
I stopped filing bugs long ago. If you're gonna ask me to do it for free, you should at least make sure it's worth my time.
Bug trackers can be useful tools to coordinate work between competent developers and testers who speak the same language, and who work within a well-design development workflow. But as a mechanism to collect problem reports from clueless non-technical users, they FAIL in the EPIC manner. So y'all need to stop acting as if an open bug tracker is some crazy new innovation that is going to make FOSS better than all other software. I bet these things slow you down as much as they help.
* by the way, the idea that just anyone can effectively triage bugs is a huge load of crap as well. Anyone who has worked at a real software company writing huge complex software will tell you the same.

Last edited by igorzwx (2025-09-26 16:21:59)

steve_v · 2025-09-23 19:39:11

RedGreen925 wrote:

You are off by half a decade 2008 was the year they released that steaming pile of dung that was KDE4 and dumped the previous version.

I was referring to actual work (i.e. commits/active development), not final release. ARTS itself was close enough to "finished" (by KDE standards anyway) a whiles before KDE4 release.

On KDE4 in general... Personally I don't think it was particularly "bad", as much as it was subject to the same insane development model KDE has always used:
As soon as a major version is finally usable and all serious bugs are resolved, it's time for a complete rewrite and a horribly broken .0 showcasing the newest dumb trend-chasing idea.
With KDE4 that new thing was akonadi and "semantic desktop", which is still a complete mess to this day.
KDE3 was an outlier, because it's "new thing" was fixing the intolerable loading times of KDE2 (remember "prelinking?) and adding some graphical bling... both of which are kinda hard to catastrophically bungle.

Last edited by steve_v (2025-09-23 19:41:05)

RedGreen925 · 2025-09-24 01:33:44

KDE3 was an outlier, because it's "new thing" was fixing the intolerable loading times of KDE2 (remember "prelinking?) and adding some graphical bling... both of which are kinda hard to catastrophically bungle.

Yes I remember those days well I used if before for many years in the pre-1.0 days then I skipped the version 4 and their lets go with the cell phone interface new shinny they always chase. I am actually shocked they have not jumped on the AI enshitification band wagon yet to tell the truth. But yeah they always do that way too many changes in the interface and everything else dump it as finished then they clean up the mess later. This shows particularly badly in the Neon they put out I was stupid enough to try, what a piece of junk that is, they have no clue how to package software with errors all the time with duplicate files in multiple packages, upgrades that do not work or do not boot just a total mess a lot of the time. Luckily I always make a backup before upgrades to be able to roll back it has saved my ass few times with clowns like that putting out an OS to use. I like the desktop but not much more of their development style.

stultumanto · 2025-09-24 05:06:03

I don't recall S3 being problematic (unless you wanted 16-bit color, and had more than 16MB RAM, and were still running a VLB card from the '90s... but I digress) but 3DFX sure was tongue

I had a Savage3D, which was known for having hardware issues. The card seemed to have a tendency to overheat, even on Windows. It was also pretty new at the time, so Linux/XFree86 driver support may not have been entirely solid yet.

greenjeans · 2025-09-24 14:53:43

On KDE4 in general... Personally I don't think it was particularly "bad", as much as it was subject to the same insane development model KDE has always used:
As soon as a major version is finally usable and all serious bugs are resolved, it's time for a complete rewrite and a horribly broken .0 showcasing the newest dumb trend-chasing idea.

I remember. At the time I was on a different distro and never used KDE, but I remember every time KDE would release a batch of updates the KDE section of the forum would light up like a Christmas tree. A couple of weeks would ensue of fixes, workarounds, and bandaids for all the stuff it broke. And I just laughed because I used gnome2, and it was simple and stable and useable.

Then gnome3 hit and I stopped laughing.

Unfortunately the mindsets that create this kind of mess, are ubiquitous and deeply embedded in just about everything these days and has been for decades now.

My favorite kinds of linux programs, are those that haven't been messed with in years, things that were perfected and the dev deemed the project "finished" and stopped messing with it. There's a fair amount of them in the repo, the Obsession login/logout app is one.

The officially official Devuan Forum!

#26 2025-09-23 14:29:01

Re: Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

#27 2025-09-23 15:12:51

Re: Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

Pulse my audio

#28 2025-09-23 18:42:34

Re: Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

#29 2025-09-23 18:47:39

Re: Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

One bug report to rule them all

#30 2025-09-23 19:39:11

Re: Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

#31 2025-09-24 01:33:44

Re: Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

#32 2025-09-24 05:06:03

Re: Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

#33 2025-09-24 14:53:43

Re: Cant do upgrade Dadedalus to Ceres

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