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#376 2021-11-12 10:04:02

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,877  
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Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

@andyprough & @GlennW — thank you very much for the information but this does what I want:

# mkdir -p /etc/systemd/system-preset
# tee /etc/systemd/system-preset/99-default.preset <<<'disable *'

^ That stops all systemd services from being enabled automatically by APT when packages are installed.

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2021-11-12 10:55:19)


antifa ftw!

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#377 2021-11-12 19:36:48

andyprough
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Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 147  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

@andyprough & @GlennW — thank you very much for the information but this does what I want:

# mkdir -p /etc/systemd/system-preset
# tee /etc/systemd/system-preset/99-default.preset <<<'disable *'

^ That stops all systemd services from being enabled automatically by APT when packages are installed.

You should spend a little bit of time on the Trisquel forum. A lot of really fun folks who think a lot like you and where this systemd info would be very useful. Not a bunch of rules and mods like on MX or on FDN.


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

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#378 2021-11-13 14:15:05

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,877  
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Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

^ Thanks Andy, I may just do that...

Back on topic:

Screenshot-from-2021-11-13-11-25-46.png

Joining Nili in the GNOME fanboi club. What a desktop. I love it :-)


antifa ftw!

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#379 2021-11-13 23:37:17

Nili
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From: $HOME/♫♪
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 177  
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Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

Back on topic:
Joining Nili in the GNOME fanboi club. What a desktop. I love it :-)

I do not deny it smile Indeed it is great a desktop. Latest version 41+ version is a lot stable even more lighter than the previous one. I like it so much aswell.

Anyone may call me a fanboy, i always used GTK on my Linux journey as my past scrots tells. First time on GNOME shell field anyway. I thought i would stay a little while on fedora, but i would keep it stable for my daily tasks and test other distro in her boxes. I just did recently an big upgrade from 34 to 35 on fedora, in general it went well as a beginner for me there.

I remember Fedora 17 around 2012 from a friend of mine who was/still is a regular user, how much have been changed since then and how stable it is today. At that time we've been on #!, My friend was watching my crunchbang openbox stable, and i was seeing his gnome frequent crashes and we made comparisons often together at work smile

Now i'm using it myself GNOME Shell. It is different with Wayland, well matured, stable and usable.

Last edited by Nili (2021-11-13 23:46:56)


Devuan // CWM
Fedora // GNOME

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#380 2021-11-14 19:44:26

Kelsoo
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Registered: 2016-12-09
Posts: 20  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

But it's still bonkers

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#381 2021-11-15 16:09:42

andyprough
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Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 147  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

Lumina desktop on a Hyperbola 0.4 testing install. Hyperbola 0.4 is very interesting - no systemd, no dbus, no polkit, no elogind, no pulseaudio, no networkmanager. Uses the openBSD "xenocara" version of xorg, the openBSD "doas" version of sudo, and the openBSD "sndio" sound server. Uses runit.

Hyperbola 0.4 does not have xfce, mate, kde, gnome. No lxde or lxqt. Looks like Lumina is the only desktop environment. There are a lot of window managers to choose from. The web browser is called iceweasel-uxp, a Hyperbola fork of palemoon's "basilisk" web browser. Other major browsers won't install, as they require dbus. iceweasel-uxp can pretty much handle everything on the web though. Many of the terminal emulators I would normally use aren't available as they require dbus, so I've found a nifty one to use called 'sakura' which seems to do all that I need.

Everything works, although you do have to teach yourself some tricks. For example, sound works if you start your application with the correct sndio options. Networking is a manual command-line setup on each reboot, although I've got it down to 3 easy commands now. There's probably an automatic way to set up networking, but I haven't researched it yet.

I've been using Hyperbola with DWM for a few weeks now. Today is my first day to try out Lumina.
lumina.jpg


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

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#382 2021-11-15 16:51:04

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
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Posts: 1,877  
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Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

andyprough wrote:

Uses the openBSD "xenocara" version of xorg

It runs X chrooted under a special _x11 user? Can we see proof of that?

ps -o user= -C Xorg

TIA

EDIT: trying to answer myself but their live image is  console only. And it uses haveged, which is a stupid decision and makes me worry about their competence.

EDIT2: context for my haveged comment: https://www.2uo.de/myths-about-urandom/

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2021-11-15 18:34:25)


antifa ftw!

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#383 2021-11-15 18:44:57

andyprough
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Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 147  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

EDIT: trying to answer myself but their live image is  console only. And it uses haveged, which is a stupid decision and makes me worry about their competence.

There once was a distro that was savaged,
For generating its randoms with haveged,
Said head-on-a-stick,
This entropy's not thick,
But would make a fine stew if it were cabbaged.

Edit: Back at my desk, so I can try and answer your questions. Your 'ps' command did not produce any output for me, either as root or as normal user.

I do not have haveged installed. It's in the repos, but it's also in the Arch and Debian repos, so that doesn't mean much. Are you talking about the live image compression?

If you downloaded a live image, it would have been from the 0.3.1 version. Hyperbola 0.4 is a radical makeover, and I haven't seen a live image for it yet. The 0.3.1 version still includes regular xorg, dbus, polkit, normal desktops and browsers, etc. If you want to torture 0.4 (or let it torture you), I wrote some how-to threads giving my steps on installing 0.3.1 and then upgrading to 0.4:
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/hyperbol … ow-manager
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/hyperbol … ng-04-beta

Last edited by andyprough (2021-11-16 14:28:07)


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

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#384 2021-11-16 15:02:09

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,877  
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Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

andyprough wrote:

Your 'ps' command did not produce any output for me, either as root or as normal user.

Oh dear, that's a shame. I did test it in Arch though and it works for me hmm

How about htop? Which user does that show owns X?

andyprough wrote:

I do not have haveged installed. It's in the repos, but it's also in the Arch and Debian repos, so that doesn't mean much. Are you talking about the live image compression?

Yes, haveged is installed and enabled in the live image but it's a stupid hack. Replacing /dev/random with a symlink to /dev/urandom is the correct solution to entropy "blocking".

# /etc/udev/rules.d/99-urandom.rules
KERNEL=="urandom", PROGRAM+="/bin/rm -f /dev/random", SYMLINK+="random"

Anyway, back on topic with my Debian bullseye sway desktop:

20211116-14h52m38s-grim.png

Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick (2021-11-16 15:03:38)


antifa ftw!

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#385 2021-11-16 15:28:26

andyprough
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Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 147  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:

How about htop? Which user does that show owns X?

Anyway, back on topic with my Debian bullseye sway desktop

"X" is owned by root if I plug it into your ps command.

I thought gnome 40-whatever was the love of your life? You won't make it into fanboi Valhalla at this rate.


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

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#386 2021-11-16 15:45:23

Head_on_a_Stick
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From: London
Registered: 2019-03-24
Posts: 1,877  
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Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

andyprough wrote:

"X" is owned by root

Oh dear, that's unfortunate. What the **** is the point of running "OpenBSD's X" if it's owned by root? Devuan manages to run X under the normal user without systemd thanks to elogind so it's a real shame Hyperbola haven't considered that.

andyprough wrote:

I thought gnome 40-whatever was the love of your life?

I vacillate between sway & GNOME depending on whether I've checked pstree recently or not.


antifa ftw!

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#387 2021-11-17 10:43:00

blackhole
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Registered: 2020-03-16
Posts: 56  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

This was the "Hyperbola BSD" people.  Development seems to have stalled: https://git.hyperbola.info:50100/

Seems like a lot of obsessive, compulsive de-blobbing and tokenism and not a lot else...

Some insights here: https://itsfoss.com/hyperbola-linux-bsd/

The non-free firmware blobs in OpenBSD include various hardware firmwares.

[...]

These blobs may contain vulnerabilities or backdoors in addition to violating your freedom, but no one would know since the source code is not available for them. They must be removed to respect user freedom.

I read it up until that point and then lost interest.  The same unfounded idealogical ranting, almost taken word for word from Stallmanist literature...

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#388 2021-11-17 13:57:38

hevidevi
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Registered: 2021-09-17
Posts: 69  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

I predict hyperbola possibly going sunset like trident has blackhole.

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#389 2021-11-17 14:08:43

andyprough
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Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 147  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

blackhole wrote:

This was the "Hyperbola BSD" people.  Development seems to have stalled

And you would be 100% incorrect in that assessment. This is Hyperbola GNU/Linux 0.4 testing. Hyperbola BSD is a different beast altogether which is only in the planning stages, and which you will not see for several years.

It's the kernel which makes it Linux or BSD, you see. Not the borrowing of sound or graphics stack pieces.


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

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#390 2021-11-17 14:16:13

hevidevi
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Registered: 2021-09-17
Posts: 69  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

andyprough wrote:
blackhole wrote:

This was the "Hyperbola BSD" people.  Development seems to have stalled

Hyperbola BSD is a different beast altogether which is only in the planning stages, and which you will not see for several years.

That is not what i read when it was announced. I dont have any sources but im fairly certain they indicated late 2021 they would have something alpha.

Last edited by hevidevi (2021-11-17 14:17:15)

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#391 2021-11-17 14:31:32

andyprough
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Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 147  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

hevidevi wrote:

I predict hyperbola possibly going sunset like trident has blackhole.

It's what people outside the Devuan community have been saying about Devuan since its inception. Obviously all such predictions are totally true and reliable. Oddly, Hyperbola and Devuan are both seeing a high amount of development activity. Never got the message that their projects are supposed to be long dead by now.
hyperbola-lumina-red.jpg


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

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#392 2021-11-17 14:35:27

andyprough
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Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 147  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

hevidevi wrote:

That is not what i read when it was announced. I dont have any sources but im fairly certain they indicated late 2021 they would have something alpha.

I do not know what you read either, but here we are.
hyperbola-lumina-blue.jpg


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

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#393 2021-11-17 14:41:00

hevidevi
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Registered: 2021-09-17
Posts: 69  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

andy, you cant really compare the progress of Devuan to hyperbola. I do understand where you are coming from and respect that hyperbola have talented people coding there, but im just pessimistic in regards to forking openbsd to hyperbola.

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#394 2021-11-17 14:55:38

andyprough
Member
Registered: 2019-10-19
Posts: 147  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

hevidevi wrote:

andy, you cant really compare the progress of Devuan to hyperbola. I do understand where you are coming from and respect that hyperbola have talented people coding there, but im just pessimistic in regards to forking openbsd to hyperbola.

I don't know, I'm just a hack Devuan user that's doing some distro-hopping for fun. They are sending new packages to their repo at a pretty quick pace right now. They are not just a random tiny group of developers - they are an FSF approved fully libre distro, and a subproject under Arch. They probably have access to some money and resources and a dedicated dev and user base. 
hyperbola-lumina-green.jpg


Primary Computer - Commodore 64: Processor - MOS 6510/8500, 1.023MHz; Memory - 64kb RAM, 20kB ROM - 8k BASIC V2, 8k Kernel, 4k Character ROM; Display output - 320x200, 16 colours; OS - BASIC V2.0; Weight: 1.8kg

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#395 2021-11-17 14:56:23

hevidevi
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Registered: 2021-09-17
Posts: 69  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

On topic. Xfce. Blue Mountains wallpaper.

scrot1.png

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#396 2021-11-17 17:40:27

Nili
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From: $HOME/♫♪
Registered: 2016-12-01
Posts: 177  
Website

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

51686924918_e36c038f12_n.jpg

Same sh!t, different kernel from testing.


Devuan // CWM
Fedora // GNOME

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#397 2021-11-18 13:50:56

blackhole
Member
Registered: 2020-03-16
Posts: 56  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

andyprough wrote:

And you would be 100% incorrect in that assessment. [...] Hyperbola BSD is a different beast altogether which is only in the planning stages, and which you will not see for several years.

Hyperbola BSD was what I was referring to.  If you read the links I posted, you'll see that:

* The intent is to abandon the Linux kernel. See the interview with the developer.
* HyperbolaBSD is new name of the project, to be based on the OpenBSD kernel (refer again to the interview)
* As hevidevi menioned, an Alpha was supposed to be out by now.(refer to the itsfoss interview)

We expect to have an alpha release ready by 2021 (Q3) for initial testing.

* HyperbolaBSD git repositories have seen little to no activity, Hyperbola repositories aren't that active either.  I provided the link to the git repository, so you can check for yourself.  In terms of HyperbolaBSD, from the git repo, it looks like they are about as far away as you can imagine from an Alpha release - with only two commits 5 months ago and nothing since.

There has also been no news posted on the website since February 2020.

Last post in the "development" forum back in May: https://forums.hyperbola.info/viewforum.php?id=99

(Which consists of a lot of chat and not a lot else.)

andyprough wrote:

It's the kernel which makes it Linux or BSD, you see.

That's not quite correct.  There are four distinct BSD derived OS.  Those OS use a different kernel and userland - each is a complete OS, rather than just a kernel.  So if you port the kernel from any of those projects to the "userland" of a different OS, you actually have a "GNU/someBSDkernel" operating system.

andyprough wrote:

Oddly, Hyperbola and Devuan are both seeing a high amount of development activity. Never got the message that their projects are supposed to be long dead by now.

I'm not seeing that kind of activity in the git repository.

If PC-BSD, TrueOS, "Project Trident", etc is anything to go by, I wouldn't count on the Lumina Desktop being around for much longer either...

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#398 2021-11-26 00:54:10

brday
Member
Registered: 2017-07-30
Posts: 50  

Re: Show your desktop (rebooted)

andyprough wrote:
hevidevi wrote:

andy, you cant really compare the progress of Devuan to hyperbola. I do understand where you are coming from and respect that hyperbola have talented people coding there, but im just pessimistic in regards to forking openbsd to hyperbola.

I don't know, I'm just a hack Devuan user that's doing some distro-hopping for fun. They are sending new packages to their repo at a pretty quick pace right now. They are not just a random tiny group of developers - they are an FSF approved fully libre distro, and a subproject under Arch. They probably have access to some money and resources and a dedicated dev and user base. 
https://trisquel.info/files/hyperbola-lumina-green.jpg

Is it the Iceweasel browser ?

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